Fighting RFE on Birth Certificate (DS-230) From Thailand

[Tmc225usc 1]

Hello all.

Well it finally happened and I got an RFE. This one to me was a shock because I thought if anything Id get an RFE for putting 'unknown' for info on the DS-230 for things I did not know.(another thread) But no, They some how decided the birth certificate copy I sent for our daughter was wrong.

(Back Story)

There is an original Thai Birth Certificate sitting in Thailand currently for my daughter. We didnt want to send in that official one because that is the only real one she has. Or they ask to see it at the interview and Id have to say we dont have it any more since we sent it in to the US governemnt with the DS-230. It seems like sending in the original would be a mess.

So, I had her grandpa take the original Birth Certificate to a translator service. Then the translator service send off the original and a certified translation in English off to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Thailand. A couple of weeks later, they send back the document as a copy with 2 seals on it.

The first, was put up at the top of the Certified Translation on the front page.

(This is what the seal looked like. The originals are in color, they were scans off the copies I made for my backup documents)

Then on the BACK of the photocopy of the original Thai birth certificate, they put this little stuck on stamp that said that it was a Certified True Copy. It has the same seal as the front page, but now also had another official seal on it and a signature.

I was actually really happy when this showed up because to me it looked perfect and exactly what I thought they wanted.

So off it went with the DS-230 and all the other required documents.

Friday, I get an email with the following:

MISSING DOCUMENT LIST FOR: YOUR DAUGHTER

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

______BIRTH CERTIFICATE:___________________________________________

The document you submitted is not an original or certified copy of an original issued by the

appropriate government authority. The document must be an original, or a certified copy of

the original, bearing the original seal or stamp from the issuing authority.

[D6J 02/19/2010]

So now Im at a loss of words as to what to do from here. Could it have been that they never turned it over and saw that official stamp and seal?

Or could what I send have been wrong? My worry is that if I do go about the headache of trying to get another copy or version of this, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Thailand is just going to send the exact same thing.

I plan on calling the NVC tomorrow, but I didnt know what if anything I could do.

My ideas were as follows:

-Ask them if possible to have someone check on the original document I send again, and make sure they look on the back because Id think a document from the Thai government that says 'Certified True Copy' is EXACTLY what they were looking for, and that is exactly what I send them.

Problem on this is that I dont know if NVC will do that, and even if they do look into the original, how will I know if the person this time will turn it over and go 'oh whoops, I guess that was there all along.' ??

-Have her grandparents begin the long process of doing what they just did. The Ministry is going to send back the same thing and then we waste months getting the same RFE possibly.

Anyone have any ideas of what I can ask or what you would do in this situation.

I could see the fuss had I forgot a document or made photocopies of something with seals on them, Id understand an RFE for that.

But these were photocopies that had official in color seals as well as a stuck on stamp on the back.

Im a bit sad that the RFE had to be for the one thing that is the most time consuming and hard item to obtain.

[Anh map 2,098]

Yes, they want an original or certified copy from the issuing authority with their original seal or stamp. Not a photocopy of the original document certified as a true copy by some other authority.

[VanessaTony 3,567]

Personally given that you gave them what they asked for, I would make an infopass appointment (here: https://infopass.uscis.gov/info_en.php )

[Tmc225usc 1]

Yes, they want an original or certified copy from the issuing authority with their original seal or stamp. Not a photocopy of the original document certified as a true copy by some other authority.

As far as I know from every where we called in Thailand, the process the translator service used was the way it is suppose to happen. Unless Im wrong, the information gets set to Ministry Of Foreign Affairs, and they issue the document I got back.

I know when my wife did all her paperwork, she never actually submitted any official birth certificate. She always just got the True Copy type copies with the seal and stamp on them and that worked out. (She is in America)

I wouldn't even know how to go about or who to call to get an original or certified copy from ISSUING authority, since Id assumed the Thai Ministry of Affairs would be the issuing authority.

Im hoping some others from Thailand or with situations similar weigh in since I know this has been discussed before from time to time with how Thailand issues Birth Certificates, but the NVC rejects them for whatever reason.

Im really hoping they can either tell me exactly why what I sent wont work and exactly what they need instead, before I have to set up an infopass meeting

[Anh map 2,098]

As far as I know from every where we called in Thailand, the process the translator service used was the way it is suppose to happen. Unless Im wrong, the information gets set to Ministry Of Foreign Affairs, and they issue the document I got back.

I know when my wife did all her paperwork, she never actually submitted any official birth certificate. She always just got the True Copy type copies with the seal and stamp on them and that worked out. (She is in America)

I wouldn't even know how to go about or who to call to get an original or certified copy from ISSUING authority, since Id assumed the Thai Ministry of Affairs would be the issuing authority.

Im hoping some others from Thailand or with situations similar weigh in since I know this has been discussed before from time to time with how Thailand issues Birth Certificates, but the NVC rejects them for whatever reason.

Im really hoping they can either tell me exactly why what I sent wont work and exactly what they need instead, before I have to set up an infopass meeting

Let's move this to the Asia: East & Pacific regional forum where you may get more Thailand specific feedback.

[Tmc225usc 1]

Let's move this to the Asia: East & Pacific regional forum where you may get more Thailand specific feedback.

That works. Hopefully some Thai folks are around and have some ideas

[rin and john 71]

We got Rin's children's BCs from the local amphur (about 20 THB each). They are stamped near the top with a certification (they were then laminated at the amphur's office). We had them translated at a place near the embassy. The translation includes the certification stamp and says:

Certified True Copy, signed, Mr Phonchai China, Assistant Local Registar of Khlong San District. Then the bottom of the translated copy as a stamp stating "certified correct translation" with name, company, and phone number of the translation company.

We never had anything certified at the MFA (except paperwork prior to getting married in Bangkok).

[Tmc225usc 1]

We got Rin's children's BCs from the local amphur (about 20 THB each). They are stamped near the top with a certification (they were then laminated at the amphur's office). We had them translated at a place near the embassy. The translation includes the certification stamp and says:

Certified True Copy, signed, Mr Phonchai China, Assistant Local Registar of Khlong San District. Then the bottom of the translated copy as a stamp stating "certified correct translation" with name, company, and phone number of the translation company.

We never had anything certified at the MFA (except paperwork prior to getting married in Bangkok).

Last time we went to my wife's local amphur, everything they gave us was photocopies but with certified stamps on them.

So Im confused why what I sent to the NVC didnt work since that was what those were.

Im going to try to have her grandpa go to the local Amphur tomorrow and see if they can get me a real or close to real BC like the one you described getting.

Im still hoping I can convince someone at NVC to look again at what I sent originally.

[rin and john 71]

Last time we went to my wife's local amphur, everything they gave us was photocopies but with certified stamps on them.

So Im confused why what I sent to the NVC didnt work since that was what those were.

Im going to try to have her grandpa go to the local Amphur tomorrow and see if they can get me a real or close to real BC like the one you described getting.

Im still hoping I can convince someone at NVC to look again at what I sent originally.

Did your translator also translate the certification stamp from the amphur?

Did you send both the certified Thai language BC and the certified translation? We sent both.

Edited February 22, 2010 by rin and john

[JD63 4]

We got Rin's children's BCs from the local amphur (about 20 THB each). They are stamped near the top with a certification (they were then laminated at the amphur's office). We had them translated at a place near the embassy. The translation includes the certification stamp and says:

Certified True Copy, signed, Mr Phonchai China, Assistant Local Registar of Khlong San District. Then the bottom of the translated copy as a stamp stating "certified correct translation" with name, company, and phone number of the translation company.

We never had anything certified at the MFA (except paperwork prior to getting married in Bangkok).

Yeah, it should have a stamp and signature and then laminated from the amphur

[TheBears 9]

Yep, yep. Certified copy from the amphur. They'll take their registration book, make a copy of the page, then put a blue stamp on it that says สำเนาถูกต้อง and a signature. I talked with ACS at the Embassy before I left with all of his documents and they said the สำเนาถูกต้อง would be fine.

Or why not make a certificate like they use when a birth certificate is reported missing? ใบรับรองสถานที่เกิด It's just like getting any other certificate at the amphur office, and lots of people have used it successfully.

Good luck!

[Tmc225usc 1]

I tried the amphur route, and ran into issues.

First off, the machine they use to make copies is broken, so the best they could do was make me a photocopy and then put a seal on it.

This to me would be almost exactly what I send to the GOV before that got me the RFE.

So I contacted the NVC by phone and explained what I was going through. She mentioned that I should send in an original since that is really what they wanted in the first place. She also said I wouldn't need a new translation on the original and to just send it by itself.

Im not into chancing it, so I got a new translation done of the official one from her birth, and it made its way over to the US via DHL.

So I have the original laminated one in my hand now and a brand spanking new translation to go along with it.

Im going to put it in the mail tomorrow and really hope for the best.

The lady on the phone said I can get the original back at the interview, which I hope is true because Id really like to have that one back for future events that will come up in my daughter's life.

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions! Hope the next update to this thread will be a good one!

[chadfather 0]

First time user, so I hope I'm doing this correctly. I have the exact same issue. My wife and I went to the local Amphur in Bang Bo and we requested an Original Birth Certificate. What they said was they could issue a Certififed Copy. So we got a copy of her Birth Certificate (in Thai)(I have since had it translated to English) with the blue stamp at the bottom. The NVC says this is not acceptable, but they forwarded the document on to Thailand American Embassy for my wife's interview in January 2012. I'm heading to Thailand next week to try and see what I can do to get an Original BC, but I am stuck as to where to go to get one or what one exactly looks like. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

[Tmc225usc 1]

First time user, so I hope I'm doing this correctly. I have the exact same issue. My wife and I went to the local Amphur in Bang Bo and we requested an Original Birth Certificate. What they said was they could issue a Certififed Copy. So we got a copy of her Birth Certificate (in Thai)(I have since had it translated to English) with the blue stamp at the bottom. The NVC says this is not acceptable, but they forwarded the document on to Thailand American Embassy for my wife's interview in January 2012. I'm heading to Thailand next week to try and see what I can do to get an Original BC, but I am stuck as to where to go to get one or what one exactly looks like. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

It sadly depends 100% on who you end up talking to. The copy you got should have worked out fine, but some of the officers wont take them and want an original.

In our situation, we were lucky and actually found the original for my daughter. Im not sure what I would have done had they not taken it.

My only advise would be to go to the Amphur and have them write an official document with your wife that says what they have is what they can give you and that no original is available. Have them make up a letter saying that they are unable to give you an original birth certificate, but this copy is legit, and the testimony is true, etc. They will sign it and she will sign it and it will get the same official stamps. You will then probably have to translate this again

Maybe that might help. Anything to do with Thailand and paperwork is a mess. I kept having to go back and forth and get testimonies and letters signed at the Amphur for our case. It was a big headache and Im very glad it is over.

As for an example of what one looks like, I can only comment on the one my daughter has but it looks just like the one here:

http://www.thaiembassyuk.org.uk/forms/birth_form_sample.jpg

The border of the entire thing is light blue, and all the field boxes are manila folder colored. The little bird man at the top is fully colored in red and green.

On my daughters in the upper right corner in Thai it has a blue stamp that must have been added when issued that says something like ' please dont lose this, it is valid all of your life."

Both of the ones my family has are lamented but I looked and I dont see a raised seal or anything on them.

The newer ones are with all the colors. My daughters is from 2006 My wife's which is from 1981 was just plain jane yellow in color and all the writing on it is blue. It also about half the size of the one my daughter got.

Hope that helps and good luck!