America's No. 1 Killer: Cardiovascular Disease. How Americanized do you really want to become?

[Peikko 1,575]

I like universal health care in general, in certain societies it works wonderfully and benefits all. Since living here though I am completely shocked to see how little Americans in general understand about nutrition and how to maintain their health in general. A lot more emphasis should go into educating people insteading of taxing everyone more to pay for stupidity, if someone wants to kill themselves and make themselves sick with their lifestyle then they should accept the cost of it, that's all I'm saying, penalise those who make stupid decisions that affect their health. If there's going to be universal healthcare the system should not be encouraging bad choices but penalising it.

Education and encouragement work better than big sticks. It's a tough problem, but it is a real one that needs to be addressed. There should be no reason why American's should not put improving their personal health as a huge priority in their lives, the difficulty is trying to mandate for that.

[FortLaudy 10]

Education and encouragement work better than big sticks. It's a tough problem, but it is a real one that needs to be addressed. There should be no reason why American's should not put improving their personal health as a huge priority in their lives, the difficulty is trying to mandate for that.

Yes, it would be as tough as getting enough electric cars out on the roads and the needed infrastructure

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again I ask, how would you go about penalizing people? Do you want to audit the food that they eat and how much exercise that they do; or do you want to completely exclude certain conditions from any kind of healthcare assistance - because it can be assumed that they were the result of negligence.

The former isn't practical. The latter is unfair because it is based on a set of false assumptions.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

It's excellent to be as self sufficient as is possible in the modern age, what is beyond contempt is to ignore the very real contribution society makes to your quality of life and ability to be in many ways free to enjoy the fruits of your own labours.

Please cite where I have ignored anything?

I am very thankful we have the medical treatment we have here. we have this treatment available here, in my city, because Canada has socialized medicine and hundreds of thousands of Canadians come to Vermont to escape the health care system there. Because of that there is a huge demand here for medical care for the 2 million Canadians that livewithin an hoiur's drive of here, 10 times the demand that the 200,000 Vermonter's and New Yorker's within an hours drive place on the system. This means we have heart surgery theatres doing 5000 surgeries a year, in a city with a population of 50,000. I have no doubt that we would not have this level and quality of medical facilities in a an area with this population were it not for living so close to Canada and their disfunctional medical care system.

Because of this I was able to walk in with a funny feeling in my chest and be in surgery shortly after to save my life. Yet somehow, because I use SOME services, like driving on a public road to get to the hospital, that I do pay for, I get chastised for paying for others myself. OMG ...up is down and down is up. Liberals have to turn the world on it's head so it looks right side up!

For what it is worth, no one asked me about my insurance, or lack thereof, until 3 days after I had the surgery. My ability to pay had nothing to do with my receiving the surgery I needed. The idea that people are dying because of lack of health insurance is simply not true. The fact is, I would have received the surgery either way.

It is only liberals (who know this full well) that make up these silly scenarios about "should someone die if they can't pay?" It is because they cannot discuss the issue logically. (is it logical to say someone that pays for their own medical care is a sponge? Though I note only ONE liberal is that dumb, maybe a broad brush to paint with) when confronted with this nonsense...simply answer with the truth. Liberals have great difficulty with that.

[FortLaudy 10]

Again I ask, how would you go about penalizing people? Do you want to audit the food that they eat and how much exercise that they do; or do you want to completely exclude certain conditions from any kind of healthcare assistance - because it can be assumed that they were the result of negligence.

The former isn't practical. The latter is unfair because it is based on a set of false assumptions.

If someone is eating too much junk, it's a pretty Obvious problem, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out. In my opinion terrible nutrition and bad lifestyle choices are a root cause of A LOT of medical conditions Americans have to battle, I would go as far as saying MOST. Instead of providing someone pills to treat Diabetes, Cholesterol and such this person should be encouraged to lose weight first.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Again I ask, how would you go about penalizing people? Do you want to audit the food that they eat and how much exercise that they do; or do you want to completely exclude certain conditions from any kind of healthcare assistance - because it can be assumed that they were the result of negligence.

The former isn't practical. The latter is unfair because it is based on a set of false assumptions.

Exactly. There is no way to penalize people with legislation on these issues. The government can stay out of it and people will penalize themselves. OMG I feel so much better after bypass surgery. I had no idea how bad I felt for so long. Believe me, bad choices make their own penalty.

The government needs to protect all of us, by not getting involved and buying into other peoples bad choices.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yes, you can get treatment without insurance (though there is no guarantee of that) - that's how the illegal immigrants do it

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If someone is eating too much junk, it's a pretty Obvious problem, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out. In my opinion terrible nutrition and bad lifestyle choices are a root cause of A LOT of medical conditions Americans have to battle, I would go as far as saying MOST. Instead of providing someone pills to treat Diabetes, Cholesterol and such this person should be encouraged to lose weight first.

You are right. But if we stay out of it, the penalty is an personal as the problem. Let people earn their own punishment and rewards.

If someone is eating too much junk, it's a pretty Obvious problem, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out. In my opinion terrible nutrition and bad lifestyle choices are a root cause of A LOT of medical conditions Americans have to battle, I would go as far as saying MOST. Instead of providing someone pills to treat Diabetes, Cholesterol and such this person should be encouraged to lose weight first.

You are right. But if we stay out of it, the penalty is an personal as the problem. Let people earn their own punishment and rewards.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If someone is eating too much junk, it's a pretty Obvious problem, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that one out. In my opinion terrible nutrition and bad lifestyle choices are a root cause of A LOT of medical conditions Americans have to battle, I would go as far as saying MOST. Instead of providing someone pills to treat Diabetes, Cholesterol and such this person should be encouraged to lose weight first.

That doesn't sound legally watertight, Shani...

You are right. But if we stay out of it, the penalty is an personal as the problem. Let people earn their own punishment and rewards.

You are right. But if we stay out of it, the penalty is an personal as the problem. Let people earn their own punishment and rewards.

Which, in a nutshell, is short for bankruptcy or death. Exactly what I said before, and exactly what you denied you were saying

[FortLaudy 10]

That doesn't sound legally watertight, Shani...

Well, even today if someone wants to get a gastric bypass they're encouraged to lose some weight first, right? It lowers the risks. With many other diseases losing some weight will actually cure the disease...

[Peikko 1,575]

Please cite where I have ignored anything?

I am very thankful we have the medical treatment we have here. we have this treatment available here, in my city, because Canada has socialized medicine and hundreds of thousands of Canadians come to Vermont to escape the health care system there. Because of that there is a huge demand here for medical care for the 2 million Canadians that livewithin an hoiur's drive of here, 10 times the demand that the 200,000 Vermonter's and New Yorker's within an hours drive place on the system. This means we have heart surgery theatres doing 5000 surgeries a year, in a city with a population of 50,000. I have no doubt that we would not have this level and quality of medical facilities in a an area with this population were it not for living so close to Canada and their disfunctional medical care system.

Because of this I was able to walk in with a funny feeling in my chest and be in surgery shortly after to save my life. Yet somehow, because I use SOME services, like driving on a public road to get to the hospital, that I do pay for, I get chastised for paying for others myself. OMG ...up is down and down is up. Liberals have to turn the world on it's head so it looks right side up!

For what it is worth, no one asked me about my insurance, or lack thereof, until 3 days after I had the surgery. My ability to pay had nothing to do with my receiving the surgery I needed. The idea that people are dying because of lack of health insurance is simply not true. The fact is, I would have received the surgery either way.

It is only liberals (who know this full well) that make up these silly scenarios about "should someone die if they can't pay?" It is because they cannot discuss the issue logically. (is it logical to say someone that pays for their own medical care is a sponge? Though I note only ONE liberal is that dumb, maybe a broad brush to paint with) when confronted with this nonsense...simply answer with the truth. Liberals have great difficulty with that.

You are introducing a bunch of silly tangents in order to cover up for that fact that all those who pay into health insurance contribute towards your health care. You do not pay your way as you seem to believe so stop trying to bludgeon everyone with your stella personal responsibilty.

[Ban Hammer 13,467]

watch out gary, someone's dug out the caps lock.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Well, even today if someone wants to get a gastric bypass they're encouraged to lose some weight first, right? It lowers the risks. With many other diseases losing some weight will actually cure the disease...

So what. Noone is saying that its healthy to be overweight. You (and Gary - when he decides to admit to it) are the ones saying that people should be punished for it and have value judgements placed on their lifestyle as a barrier to receiving (and paying for) medical treatment.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Health care treatments are only availalbe at affordable prices for those who don't pay into health insurance schemes because of those health insurance schemes that he doesn't pay into. Those who pay for health insurance are in part paying for his care, whether he acknowledges that fact or not.

By now you have realized you are the ONLY one saying that paying for one's own medical care is somehow taking advantage of others. health care without insurance is CHEAPER, that means insurance does not SAVE money, it was never intended to save money.

Your siuggestion is that if everyone paid for their own medical care, the cost would go up. Ridiculous. The cost of medical treatments NOT covered by insurance have come DOWN over the last few years. It would be the ONLY product in the world where competition and consumer involvement resulted in price increases. Too stupid a thought to warrant further discussion by a thinking adult.

[Peikko 1,575]

By now you have realized you are the ONLY one saying that paying for one's own medical care is somehow taking advantage of others. health care without insurance is CHEAPER, that means insurance does not SAVE money, it was never intended to save money.

Your siuggestion is that if everyone paid for their own medical care, the cost would go up. Ridiculous. The cost of medical treatments NOT covered by insurance have come DOWN over the last few years. It would be the ONLY product in the world where competition and consumer involvement resulted in price increases. Too stupid a thought to warrant further discussion by a thinking adult.

Economies of scale Gary, it's that simple.