America's No. 1 Killer: Cardiovascular Disease. How Americanized do you really want to become?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You spineless hypocrite. Move on my #######. You're going to mischaracterize and milk it for all its worth because your understanding of American history is weak. Work on your arguing skills and come back to me when you got some.

Stephen...dude

You still hung up on that? I didn't even mention your name...why so defensive? I mean people make mistakes. Good thing I don't report to the mods.

Stephen...dude

You still hung up on that? I didn't even mention your name...why so defensive? I mean people make mistakes. Good thing I don't report to the mods.

Told you, Ravenesque, it was going to get lively now. What DO people ever talk about without Gary to kick around?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If you were going to post it Gary, you would post it. There would be no need to play silly games.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

With all due respect (which should be taken as sarcastic statement - because no respect is due), the only thing you have PERSONALLY presented in this thread is your ability to patronize people and aggrandise yourself with flights of egotism.

I am prepared to present more. Let me know which countries you want to see the comaprison of treatments from and which diseases.

I have also presented solid, scientific reasons not to consider the data presented. People always hate it when I do that, but what am I supposed to do? I have my standards, you know.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I am prepared to present more. Let me know which countries you want to see the comaprison of treatments from and which diseases.

I have also presented solid, scientific reasons not to consider the data presented. People always hate it when I do that, but what am I supposed to do? I have my standards, you know.

No you don't Gary. You have patronisms that drip with narcissism and stories about your sex life. The rest is lacking.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you were going to post it Gary, you would post it. There would be no need to play silly games.

I do not usually post links and data because, well, frankly I have better things to do with my day. I think you have read enough of my posts to know that this would be a first for me. I will make an exception in this case. You will not like the results. You will try to shoot them down but you will not be able to (I know, facts are no reason to change a theory for you, but any attempt to shoot them down will only look silly to peole that can think)

I am trying to make this as unbiased as possible. Are you skeered?

No you don't Gary. You have patronisms that drip with narcissism and stories about your sex life. The rest is lacking.

Ah, yep...he's skeered.

Anyone else got any nads?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I do not usually post links and data because, well, frankly I have better things to do with my day. I think you have read enough of my posts to know that this would be a first for me. I will make an exception in this case. You will not like the results. You will try to shoot them down but you will not be able to (I know, facts are no reason to change a theory for you, but any attempt to shoot them down will only look silly to peole that can think)

I am trying to make this as unbiased as possible. Are you skeered?

If you have better things to do with your day, you would not have participated in a 23 (whoops 24) page forum thread. I've heard people say that before - they all sound like wankers.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

If you have better things to do with your day, you would not have participated in a 23 (whoops 24) page forum thread. I've heard people say that before - they all sound like wankers.

well, wanking is one of those "better things"

I see you are skeered of the big bad wolf. OK, well we'll see if anyone else is up to the challenge, if not I can come back tomorrow and post the good stuff anyway. Just trying to take away one of your objections up front

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Ah, yep...he's skeered.

Anyone else got any nads?

So I must validate your ego, before you'll make good?

Who are you kidding.

I believe the appropriate response is something along the lines of:

┌∩┐(◣..◢)┌∩┐

[Peikko 1,575]

Gary, post away, for all the good it would do. Posting outcomes for treatments is not really very relevant unless you also have some kind of cost analasys to go with it, as well as the data that shows how many patients are eligable for the most effective treatments, and what happens to those who can't afford the most effective treatments and those who can't afford treatments at all. The fact is that Univeral health care is the best solution if you want to give access to reasonable health care to all the people. Those who can afford excellent health care can afford it no matter what system is in place.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Gary, post away, for all the good it would do. Posting outcomes for treatments is not really very relevant unless you also have some kind of cost analasys to go with it, as well as the data that shows how many patients are eligable for the most effective treatments, and what happens to those who can't afford the most effective treatments and those who can't afford treatments at all. The fact is that Univeral health care is the best solution if you want to give access to reasonable health care to all the people. Those who can afford excellent health care can afford it no matter what system is in place.

Yep. I wonder if Gary has those apples in his cart.

[Peikko 1,575]

There must a child lock on the file...

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary, post away, for all the good it would do. Posting outcomes for treatments is not really very relevant unless you also have some kind of cost analasys to go with it, as well as the data that shows how many patients are eligable for the most effective treatments, and what happens to those who can't afford the most effective treatments and those who can't afford treatments at all. The fact is that Univeral health care is the best solution if you want to give access to reasonable health care to all the people. Those who can afford excellent health care can afford it no matter what system is in place.

Yes, making excuses already. But you will endorse raw numbers like life expectancy and not apply any of the variables to that. Interesting how scientific you and Gene become when looking at data that do not agree with your position. I didn;t really expect it to do any good for some people, particularly those that think my paying cash for the full amount is worse than an insurance company (and their policy holders) paying double the normal price.

However, it is interesting that you conclude by saying, in essence, it is the best way to deliver mediocraty to health care for all. In other words, bring us all down to the lowest common denominator. What yu=ou say an=bout people being able to afford the best... it is true, and will be, until they can no longer come to the USA because our health care is lowered to the same standard as theirs. Where will the Newfoundland Prime Minister go for heart surgery? Cuba?

Yep. I wonder if Gary has those apples in his cart.

And now you see why I do not waste my time applying data that meet my standard to this forum. Why bother. What you think couldn;t possibly matter less, so any effort on my part is a waste of time, even if you would read it.

[Ban Hammer 13,469]

round two!

[Ali G. 37]

Booyah, I already looked at those. They offer no information from which to draw a conclusion. Please read my above post for an explanation which involves more than Ukraine. I look forward to you posting what you said you would.

I would like data which shows the conclusive cause/effect of life expectancies. merely showing me life expectancies vary from country to country (big suprise) proves nothing about health care.

Did you seriously deduce nothing from those reputable stats? Okay, have a look at the life expectancy list, now tell me of one country higher up than the US that uses America's status-quo system of health care. Furthermore, tell me one other first world country that currently utilizes the US's health care system. Therefore, if our system is so superior, why is it not delivering the goods?

I will agree with you on this point, even the most generous and best health care system in the world will not be able to do much for people that don't eat healthy or attempt to exercise. Unfortunately a lot of cities and communities in America are simply not centered around a healthy lifestyle. There clearly just does not seem to be any planning mandate in cities, counties or states, to ensure communities are designed to be healthy and active; as it is down under.

Edited February 23, 2010 by Booyah

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Firstly, how many excuses are you going to make Gary before you post any data?

Secondly, why do you believe that people here think that life expectancy is the one sole indicator of the quality of a country's healthcare system? It isn't - of course it isn't, how could it be? I don't believe that. Why do you think I do?