ITIN -- certified copies

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Ok, i know this has been beat to death, but i found something online that might help people..i might try to do this on monday. I was looking to get the ITIN for my wife, so i dont have to file an ammended return after my wife gets to the US. On the Jan 2010 instructions for the W-7 it states that "Consular offices at U.S. embassies and consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the documents."

then on IRS.gov it states:

The IRS will accept copies of original documents, if the copies have been properly certified or notorized by:

1. the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents,

2. employees of the U.S. State Department located in U.S. embassies and consulates abroad, or

3. a U.S. notary public who is allowed under U.S. state law to notarize foreign documents.

What is up with that? I am assuming that they are talking about birth certificates and such. I wanted to get a copy of her passport notorized so we can apply for the ITIN. Athough at this point i might need to have my 2009 return back before the end of april if we are lucky to get an April interview...most likely a May interview though. I dont know how it would look if they requested my 2009 tax return and I filed single (seeing we were married in august). I know that i wont be able to e-file most likely either way since if i file married/separate, it asks for your spouse's SSN (which she wont have). So what would be the best course of action on this? I'm hoping we can get a copy of her passport notorized by the embassy and be done with it, but I have read where they wont do that even though IRS.gov states they will....but in the instructions it says they cant....does it mean that we will have to get the DFA to certify the copy? (this might be the best bet if we wont have to stand in line too long)

As far as the Hague Convention, I have looked it up and it is really messed up. I found the philippines on one list (i dont think it was the right one) and another where they werent on the list. According to the W-7 instructions it would have to have an apostille with the copy if the philippines was part of the Hague Convention (for a foreign notory)...so that brings me back to the DFA since i am pretty sure the philippines is not part of the Hague Convention.

Anyone else have a positive experience applying for an ITIN when the person wasnt in the country?

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Hmmm did some more reading and found this on the US embassy manila site:

9.EVIDENCE OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT

■Form I-864 Affidavit of Support (AOS): The I-864 AOS is required for visa applicants in the IR, F and certain E visa categories complete with copies of your sponsor’s latest U.S. Federal income tax return (ITR) and wage statements (Form W-2s). Please note that your petitioner must provide an Affidavit of Support, even if they do not meet the income requirements and even if a joint sponsor’s Affidavit of Support will be providing all of the actual financial support.

The I-864 AOS is NOW VALID INDEFINITELY ONCE IT HAS BEEN SIGNED (this is a change from the previous requirement of being valid for one year). In other words, applicants will no longer need to submit a new I-864 AOS or new tax forms due to long processing delays between the date of the signature of the I-864 AOS and the date of the interview.

Additionally, petitioners (or joint sponsors, if needed) filing an I-864 AOS are required to submit ONLY ONE YEAR'S TAX RETURN, THE MOST RECENT AVAILABLE AS OF THE DATE THE SUBMITTED I-864 AOS WAS SIGNED (this is a change from the previous requirement of submitting tax returns from the three most recent tax years).

The actual signed I-864 AOS must be an original copy. However, faxed copies of tax returns are acceptable. The tax return or copy should be signed.

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3217.html

Looks like as long as my AOS is submitted and accepted before April 15th they SHOULDNT need the 2009 tax return....I am still wondering about the ITIN though.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Scott and Mhay

[mrsean 4]

IS IT WORTH ALL THE TROUBLE!!!WAIT TILL SHE GETS HERE AND GET A SS#

[Dakine 26]

IS IT WORTH ALL THE TROUBLE!!!WAIT TILL SHE GETS HERE AND GET A SS#

I'd say it's worth the additional evidence for the USEM interview when you have filed jointly as a married couple when your wife is still in the process.

I did. Not that much trouble as I just filed the W 7 with my taxes. No biggy.

The W-7 can be faxed or scanned.

Edited February 20, 2010 by Dakine

[sjr09 155]

Ok, i know this has been beat to death, but i found something online that might help people..i might try to do this on monday. I was looking to get the ITIN for my wife, so i dont have to file an ammended return after my wife gets to the US. On the Jan 2010 instructions for the W-7 it states that "Consular offices at U.S. embassies and consulates overseas may not certify true copies of foreign public documents and will refer applicants to the foreign authority that issued the documents."

then on IRS.gov it states:

The IRS will accept copies of original documents, if the copies have been properly certified or notorized by:

1. the government agency (foreign or domestic) which issued the documents,

2. employees of the U.S. State Department located in U.S. embassies and consulates abroad, or

3. a U.S. notary public who is allowed under U.S. state law to notarize foreign documents.

I filed last year, married but legally separated with out her SSN! IRS excepted my return.

How do I know if I need an ITIN?

If you do not have a SSN and are not eligible to obtain a SSN, but you have a requirement to furnish a federal tax identification number or file a federal income tax return, you must apply for an ITIN.

If you have an application for a SSN pending, do not file Form W-7. Complete Form W-7 only if the Social Security Administration (SSA) notifies you that a SSN cannot be issued.

IRS issues ITINs to individuals who are required to have a U.S. taxpayer identification number but who do not have, and are not eligible to obtain a Social Security Number (SSN) from the Social Security Administration (SSA).

ITINs are issued regardless of immigration status because both resident and nonresident aliens may have a U.S. filing or reporting requirement under the Internal Revenue Code.

Individuals must have a filing requirement and file a valid federal income tax return to receive an ITIN, unless they meet an exception.

What is an ITIN used for?

ITINs are for federal tax reporting only, and are not intended to serve any other purpose. An ITIN does not authorize work in the U.S. or provide eligibility for Social Security benefits or the Earned Income Tax Credit. ITINs are not valid identification outside the tax system.

IRS issues ITINs to help individuals comply with the U.S. tax laws, and to provide a means to efficiently process and account for tax returns and payments for those not eligible for Social Security Numbers.

Who needs an ITIN?

IRS issues ITINs to foreign nationals and others who have federal tax reporting or filing requirements and do not qualify for SSNs. A non-resident alien individual not eligible for a SSN, who is required to file a U.S. tax return only to claim a refund of tax under the provisions of a U.S. tax treaty, needs an ITIN.

Examples of individuals who need ITINs include:

Non-resident alien filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN

U.S. resident alien (based on days present in the United States) filing a U.S. tax return and not eligible for a SSN

Dependent or spouse of a U.S. citizen/resident alien

Dependent or spouse of a non-resident alien visa holder

What is up with that? I am assuming that they are talking about birth certificates and such. I wanted to get a copy of her passport notorized so we can apply for the ITIN. Athough at this point i might need to have my 2009 return back before the end of april if we are lucky to get an April interview...most likely a May interview though. I dont know how it would look if they requested my 2009 tax return and I filed single (seeing we were married in august). I know that i wont be able to e-file most likely either way since if i file married/separate, it asks for your spouse's SSN (which she wont have). So what would be the best course of action on this? I'm hoping we can get a copy of her passport notorized by the embassy and be done with it, but I have read where they wont do that even though IRS.gov states they will....but in the instructions it says they cant....does it mean that we will have to get the DFA to certify the copy? (this might be the best bet if we wont have to stand in line too long)

As far as the Hague Convention, I have looked it up and it is really messed up. I found the philippines on one list (i dont think it was the right one) and another where they werent on the list. According to the W-7 instructions it would have to have an apostille with the copy if the philippines was part of the Hague Convention (for a foreign notory)...so that brings me back to the DFA since i am pretty sure the philippines is not part of the Hague Convention.

Anyone else have a positive experience applying for an ITIN when the person wasnt in the country?

[Darnell 8,478]

I say still go to the USEM for the notarization of the bio page.

If they will actually do it, then you have a document that is 'allowed' for the W-7.

Good Luck !

[ryandgracey 2]

before i arrived, hubby and i tried to apply for ITIN so he could file his 2008 taxes. the form for myself and my daughter called for our passport numbers among other documents. since our passports were issued by DFA, i had photocopies of them certified there with a red ribbon affixed to the certificate (and it does look like a certificate). paid Php120 i think to have them delivered via courier to my house (because i found it a pain in the a-- to have to go back there a 3rd time). All was for naught...don't recall now`why but hubby decided to ask for an extension till we got our SSN's to file his tax returns.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Yes i think it is worth all the trouble to file married vs single! the deductions (showing more dependents) and showing that we are married on the tax return might help at the interview stage (it cant hurt even if they dont ask for it). I guess we will try and see what happens. I am assuming that even if i file married/separate, i will have to paper file as I know with turbotax it asks for spouse SSN (I tried this last year when I was in the midst of my divorce..couldnt do it without putting spouse SSN). I could get an extension, but it will be awhile before my wife has her interview (guessing sometime in May)....i dont want to wait that long to file my taxes...the gov't has used my money long enough for free.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Well, we went to the DFA today to get a copy of my wife's passport certified. It was fairly painless. Just had to have the W-7 filled out, a copy of the bio page and the last page in the passport, fill out their form, give them 2 passport sized photos, and pay 100 pesos. We have to go back in 3 days (25 feb) to pick it up. We will see if it will work when I send it in with my tax return.

I didnt bother to try to go to the US embassy (it was past 10 when we got to manila) and I didnt know for sure if I could get in the embassy and get them to certify a copy anyway....it would cost $30 if they did. I suspect they would have told me to go to the DFA anyway since they were the ones that issued the passport. I am assuming that the copy of the passport will have an apostille attached to it, so it should be good enough for the IRS. If not, we are only out of a little over $2 and about 15 mins of time.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

before i arrived, hubby and i tried to apply for ITIN so he could file his 2008 taxes. the form for myself and my daughter called for our passport numbers among other documents. since our passports were issued by DFA, i had photocopies of them certified there with a red ribbon affixed to the certificate (and it does look like a certificate). paid Php120 i think to have them delivered via courier to my house (because i found it a pain in the a-- to have to go back there a 3rd time). All was for naught...don't recall now`why but hubby decided to ask for an extension till we got our SSN's to file his tax returns.

Hmmm, we just picked up a letter from the DFA...it was just a certification...they didnt even give the copy of the passport back with it (they even kept the copy of the W-7 that we filled out so they would do the authentication)....it just stated the basic information from the bio page and that it showed in their electronic database. So i guess it is just a roll of the dice now...and I'm pretty sure the IRS wont take that. Although I guess all I can do is go into the social security office and see.

Problem now is Mhay's passport is with St. Lukes since we just did the medical. We still have copies of her passport and I will attach one to the back of the letter and see what happens. I also have the receipt from the DFA for authentication.

I guess worst case ... i could do the same...ask for an extension until she is with me. I'm hoping for everything to be done by May and have her with me by no later than June.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Hmmm did some more reading and found this on the US embassy manila site:

9.EVIDENCE OF FINANCIAL SUPPORT

■Form I-864 Affidavit of Support (AOS): The I-864 AOS is required for visa applicants in the IR, F and certain E visa categories complete with copies of your sponsor’s latest U.S. Federal income tax return (ITR) and wage statements (Form W-2s). Please note that your petitioner must provide an Affidavit of Support, even if they do not meet the income requirements and even if a joint sponsor’s Affidavit of Support will be providing all of the actual financial support.

The I-864 AOS is NOW VALID INDEFINITELY ONCE IT HAS BEEN SIGNED (this is a change from the previous requirement of being valid for one year). In other words, applicants will no longer need to submit a new I-864 AOS or new tax forms due to long processing delays between the date of the signature of the I-864 AOS and the date of the interview.

Additionally, petitioners (or joint sponsors, if needed) filing an I-864 AOS are required to submit ONLY ONE YEAR'S TAX RETURN, THE MOST RECENT AVAILABLE AS OF THE DATE THE SUBMITTED I-864 AOS WAS SIGNED (this is a change from the previous requirement of submitting tax returns from the three most recent tax years).

The actual signed I-864 AOS must be an original copy. However, faxed copies of tax returns are acceptable. The tax return or copy should be signed.

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3217.html

Looks like as long as my AOS is submitted and accepted before April 15th they SHOULDNT need the 2009 tax return....I am still wondering about the ITIN though.

Proof offered with the application, does not necessarily satisfy the requirements for the interview. When we did our AOS interview, it was in May, while the application was submitted in December. They asked for my current tax return to be brought with me to the interview, and that was the first document the AO requested, along with any W-2's and 1099's.

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Proof offered with the application, does not necessarily satisfy the requirements for the interview. When we did our AOS interview, it was in May, while the application was submitted in December. They asked for my current tax return to be brought with me to the interview, and that was the first document the AO requested, along with any W-2's and 1099's.

I understand this, and I will probably be filing for an extension so I can file joint married instead of married separate or head of household...whichevery the case may be....but from that link, I SHOULD NOT have to submit my 2009's tax return to the embassy especially since my past 3 year's returns have been well above the 125% poverty line (I only need to meet the 100% since I am military) and my paygrade has not changed in almost 5 years (E-6). I just need to go talk to the social security office about the copy of my wife's passport and the letter certifying it from the DFA.

Also, you did the K-1 right? AOS=adjustment of status not affidavit of support? I guess all I can do is talk to a tax person when I get back (we have them on base...maybe even legal) and see what my best course of action will be. I was really hoping to get my wife an ITIN so I could file married joint, that way the embassy wouldnt question our relationship since we got married in august.

Edited February 26, 2010 by Scott and Mhay

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I understand this, and I will probably be filing for an extension so I can file joint married instead of married separate or head of household...whichevery the case may be....but from that link, I SHOULD NOT have to submit my 2009's tax return to the embassy especially since my past 3 year's returns have been well above the 125% poverty line (I only need to meet the 100% since I am military) and my paygrade has not changed in almost 5 years (E-6). I just need to go talk to the social security office about the copy of my wife's passport and the letter certifying it from the DFA.

Also, you did the K-1 right? AOS=adjustment of status not affidavit of support? I guess all I can do is talk to a tax person when I get back (we have them on base...maybe even legal) and see what my best course of action will be. I was really hoping to get my wife an ITIN so I could file married joint, that way the embassy wouldnt question our relationship since we got married in august.

Right. I see you are CR1/IR1. That is a different process than what we went through. We did the I-864 Affidavit of Support that you are filing now, when we adjusted status later. Don't you hate it when they use the same acronyms for multiple things?

[Scott and Mhay 57]

Right. I see you are CR1/IR1. That is a different process than what we went through. We did the I-864 Affidavit of Support that you are filing now, when we adjusted status later. Don't you hate it when they use the same acronyms for multiple things?

Yeah, I hate it. I just wanted to clarify.

I know what the websites say and what the embassy wants or does can be very different....I just would like to have my ducks in a row for when the time comes. If i can file my taxes and get it back before the interview, I will send my wife the copy of the 2009 return "JUST IN CASE" so we dont have any hold-ups from that.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Yeah, I hate it. I just wanted to clarify.

I know what the websites say and what the embassy wants or does can be very different....I just would like to have my ducks in a row for when the time comes. If i can file my taxes and get it back before the interview, I will send my wife the copy of the 2009 return "JUST IN CASE" so we dont have any hold-ups from that.

From what I have picked up so far, attitude and preparation make the process a lot easier. I think the AO already has a profile that they look for, and as long as your girl doesn't fit that profile, can prove you two have a bona fide relationship, and you can support her in the US, I think you are good to go.