CR1 for recently married

[lwsx 0]

Quick background: I've known my fiance for over a year; met her in Dec '09 for 2.5 weeks; engaged now; will visit her in Nanjing in Apr.

April's 10 day visit will be to give her the engagement ring, spend some time together & go over the process on bring her to the states.

Originally we decided on applying for the K1 visa, but some relatives are suggesting a CR1 as a better alternative - citing 3rd person experiences. Having read some posts on K1's wait time & pass over by CR1's, as well as permanent resident status, I'm inclined to do CR1.

Rather than just visiting her, we could take the opportunity to get married in China first.

It seems that a non-"bonafide relationship" is often used as a reason to give a blue slip, and I worry that our relationship might be considered as such very easily by the Consulate.

Would getting married in China demonstrate a "bonafide relationship"? Would a relatively quick marriage & being apart be considered a negative? Even if we establish joint property such as bank accounts? I'd like to consider applying for a CR1 if the benefits outweighs potential setbacks.

Thanks

[justashooter 430]

Quick background: I've known my fiance for over a year; met her in Dec '09 for 2.5 weeks; engaged now; will visit her in Nanjing in Apr.

April's 10 day visit will be to give her the engagement ring, spend some time together & go over the process on bring her to the states.

Originally we decided on applying for the K1 visa, but some relatives are suggesting a CR1 as a better alternative - citing 3rd person experiences. Having read some posts on K1's wait time & pass over by CR1's, as well as permanent resident status, I'm inclined to do CR1.

Rather than just visiting her, we could take the opportunity to get married in China first.

It seems that a non-"bonafide relationship" is often used as a reason to give a blue slip, and I worry that our relationship might be considered as such very easily by the Consulate.

Would getting married in China demonstrate a "bonafide relationship"? Would a relatively quick marriage & being apart be considered a negative? Even if we establish joint property such as bank accounts? I'd like to consider applying for a CR1 if the benefits outweighs potential setbacks.

Thanks

short relationships and not much time together are red flags in GUZ, but things like communication ability and knowledge of each other count for more. if she is fluent english and you prepare her well enuf you should get thru K1. CR1 is a plus, but not a guarantee. lots of pictures with her family at a wedding party will be good evidence. more important that she knows details about your life and has expectations for her life in America.

[dan_ling 6]

Quick background: I've known my fiance for over a year; met her in Dec '09 for 2.5 weeks; engaged now; will visit her in Nanjing in Apr.

April's 10 day visit will be to give her the engagement ring, spend some time together & go over the process on bring her to the states.

Originally we decided on applying for the K1 visa, but some relatives are suggesting a CR1 as a better alternative - citing 3rd person experiences. Having read some posts on K1's wait time & pass over by CR1's, as well as permanent resident status, I'm inclined to do CR1.

Rather than just visiting her, we could take the opportunity to get married in China first.

It seems that a non-"bonafide relationship" is often used as a reason to give a blue slip, and I worry that our relationship might be considered as such very easily by the Consulate.

Would getting married in China demonstrate a "bonafide relationship"? Would a relatively quick marriage & being apart be considered a negative? Even if we establish joint property such as bank accounts? I'd like to consider applying for a CR1 if the benefits outweighs potential setbacks.

Thanks

I met my wife 5/05/09 and married her in China 7/07/09 and filed I-130 for CR-1 in August and she received her Visa in December. Like said if you have enough proof such as many photos of you with her and her family and other evidence for bonafide marriage(letters from her family and friends of such relationship) and a little luck you should be good.

[lwsx 0]

short relationships and not much time together are red flags in GUZ, but things like communication ability and knowledge of each other count for more. if she is fluent english and you prepare her well enuf you should get thru K1. CR1 is a plus, but not a guarantee. lots of pictures with her family at a wedding party will be good evidence. more important that she knows details about your life and has expectations for her life in America.

thanks for the info.

the way i'm looking at it is that we haven't spent much time together, so i guess both K1 & CR1 will both get red flags. we both are trying not to have a big wedding - neither of our families are well-off. I'd have to convince her a wedding party would be beneficial.

it's really difficult to decide on a course of action when other people are giving you advice, especially when they make sense. Hard to sort out all the good & the bad.... I have a distant relative who is a lawyer in my fiance's home town, and though I did not want to trouble him, I may have to ask for his assistance for a CR1

[Darnell 8,479]

Why to get his assistance for a CR-1 ? no need, IMO.

Now, as for a 'wedding party' - wedding parties are a big deal. It sounds like you don't know much about them. Ask around, to other Chinese Couples that you know In China that are NOT related to either of you.

Usually (just so you know, beforehand) wedding gifts are given by all attendees, at a wedding party. USUALLY there are many red envelopes, with currency. Usually, the currency received MORE THAN pays for the wedding party.

Now, if yer lass is NOT HAN nationality, she might have some other tradition to go by. Let us know if that's the case?

-----

K-1 vs CR-1 - without focusing on CHINA, per se -

There are many benefits to going CR-1 vs K-1, and I think you can find them here on this portal.

specifically for China -

China is a High Fraud Immigration 'thing' -so if you prepare your petition before you actually file it, and follow the I-130 instructions to the letter, you should be OK. Here's what I did for the 'evidence' - http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...p;#entry3324240 (click it, have a read? )

In addition to what I posted, prepare an evolution of relationship letter, have it notarized, and submit it with the I-130.

Take and submit (with the I-130 ) many photos of you with HER FAMILY, as well.

re: visit count. Two is good. IMO - four is better.

If you can document TWO visits with the I-130 initial submittal, that's great - MOST ppl only do 1. You'll have two done already by the time you file for the CR-1 - so that's good. Then , when she has her interview day, submit a NEW Evolution of Relationship letter, listing the other trips (amongst other things) made since initial I-130 submittal.

[lwsx 0]

Why to get his assistance for a CR-1 ? no need, IMO.

Now, as for a 'wedding party' - wedding parties are a big deal. It sounds like you don't know much about them. Ask around, to other Chinese Couples that you know In China that are NOT related to either of you.

Usually (just so you know, beforehand) wedding gifts are given by all attendees, at a wedding party. USUALLY there are many red envelopes, with currency. Usually, the currency received MORE THAN pays for the wedding party.

Now, if yer lass is NOT HAN nationality, she might have some other tradition to go by. Let us know if that's the case?

I'm Cantonese, born in Taiwan, living in NY. Besides having helped my brother's 300 guest wedding, I typically attend 3-4 Chinese weddings in NY every year.

My fiance (Chinese) & I are not in favor of an elaborate wedding because we see it as a formality. It's basically a show for friends & relatives. And a show for U.S. immigration if you think about it.

My thoughts on having my lawyer relative helping is mainly for worse case scenario of a blue slip - would be simpler to have him in the loop. Also it might not hurt if he knows of any back channels that might speed things along.

With joint property, what are some types that are easily obtained & documented? For example, a bank account in U.S., or in China?

Your advice on # of visits is reassuring, but I'm a bit worried about a short 4 months from start of the relationship to being married would be considered short by the consulate.

[Darnell 8,479]

My thoughts on having my lawyer relative helping is mainly for worse case scenario of a blue slip - would be simpler to have him in the loop. Also it might not hurt if he knows of any back channels that might speed things along.

Doesn't exist, those back channels, INTO the US Consulate IV unit in Guangzhou, China, regardless of what you've heard, read, or been told. I agree, he might be helpful with the document prep required AFTER a blue slip, but then, IMO, you should handle that directly. If it helps with 'face' to keep him in the loop, then by all means, do it. About 5 years ago, attornies in Guangzhou could 'get things done' with the IV Unit, if a blue slip was given. That's not the case anymore, at all. An attorney has to NOW BE 'certified' to present at GUZ, and then have valid reason to present. 'Blue slip overcome evidence submittal' is not a valid reason to be present.

What he MIGHT help about, is translations at a Notarial Office - but unless her hukuo is messed up or IF she is a migrant worker (returning to hukuo city only during two weeks during CNY ) - and even then - a family member LISTED in her hukuo book can do all (I'm betting he's not listed in her hukuo book at all).

Guanxi is important in China, you betcha, but mostly useless for the I-130 petition. Sorry.

re: With joint property, what are some types that are easily obtained & documented? For example, a bank account in U.S., or in China? click my link, read. read it twice. Bring out the I-130 instructions, read those as well - THEN MAP OUT what you can do easily, and then map out what you think is HARD. IMO (if you read the link, you'd know this ) getting a joint account is almost impossible even after the marriage.

Joint accounts in China are impossible, except at HSBC and then only with a Premiere Account. Minimum 750K RMB to open.

Many people do not have the wedding PARTY, if both in the couple have 2nd marriage. Some do, though.

For us, we did 3 - two in Wuhan (one for father's side, one for mother's side - they were divorced and impossible to be in same room at same time) , then a 3rd one in Chengdu. I encourage anyone to DO ONE, when/if possible - it's FUN - you make new connections (and here, guanxi is important, you betcha ).

Edited February 16, 2010 by Darnell

[lwsx 0]

Doesn't exist, those back channels, INTO the US Consulate IV unit in Guangzhou, China, regardless of what you've heard, read, or been told. I agree, he might be helpful with the document prep required AFTER a blue slip, but then, IMO, you should handle that directly. If it helps with 'face' to keep him in the loop, then by all means, do it. About 5 years ago, attornies in Guangzhou could 'get things done' with the IV Unit, if a blue slip was given. That's not the case anymore, at all. An attorney has to NOW BE 'certified' to present at GUZ, and then have valid reason to present. 'Blue slip overcome evidence submittal' is not a valid reason to be present.

What he MIGHT help about, is translations at a Notarial Office - but unless her hukuo is messed up or IF she is a migrant worker (returning to hukuo city only during two weeks during CNY ) - and even then - a family member LISTED in her hukuo book can do all (I'm betting he's not listed in her hukuo book at all).

Guanxi is important in China, you betcha, but mostly useless for the I-130 petition. Sorry.

re: With joint property, what are some types that are easily obtained & documented? For example, a bank account in U.S., or in China? click my link, read. read it twice. Bring out the I-130 instructions, read those as well - THEN MAP OUT what you can do easily, and then map out what you think is HARD. IMO (if you read the link, you'd know this ) getting a joint account is almost impossible even after the marriage.

Joint accounts in China are impossible, except at HSBC and then only with a Premiere Account. Minimum 750K RMB to open.

Many people do not have the wedding PARTY, if both in the couple have 2nd marriage. Some do, though.

For us, we did 3 - two in Wuhan (one for father's side, one for mother's side - they were divorced and impossible to be in same room at same time) , then a 3rd one in Chengdu. I encourage anyone to DO ONE, when/if possible - it's FUN - you make new connections (and here, guanxi is important, you betcha ).

Thanks for all the information. It's helped to decide on applying for a K1 over CR1. Time isn't on our side in our case. For one thing to plan & prepare everything for a wedding in China in less than a month, I know Murphy's Law is waiting around the corner somewhere. And having CR1 documentation doesn't seem to justify all the extra steps - I'm only suggesting this for our situation, not for anyone else.

Plus having been to 40+ weddings since 21 (when I started counting) in 3 countries and 4 states, and engaged (it ended during the wedding planning process - that's $20k I'd never get back) I have to say I don't feel the same about weddings as I used to. Pair an introvert like me with an independent who doesn't value superficial things, you get 2 families who will miss out on a traditional wedding

Granted we will have something in NY, but it's no more than a family obligation, which comes in the form of my 90 yr old grandparents wanting to see me get married. Frankly, I don't see the fun of putting on a show - but that's just my personality. I talked to married couples, most of them I was at their wedding (my brother & sister in-law included), and for them it was nice to have wedding memories, but ask them about who was there, they draw blanks at half the guests

I doubt I would take advantage of the opportunity to make new connections or re-establish old ones

Me & the fiance will be happy with just a small ceremony by the Montauk Light House (if timing is good). Everything else will just be a chore.

Well, in the event of a blue slip (hope I'm not jinxing myself), I think CR1 will be plan B.

[justashooter 430]

if an in china wedding party is done right, it's a damned good deal. i paid more for 25 guests in the states than i did for 300 in luoyang. sure, it's a show, but every mainland chinese wants to be a movie star at least once in their life.

[Darnell 8,479]

lwsx - hey - that's cool. if nothing else - you've solidified the plan, a bit. That's always useful, IMO.

Hang in there, mon - you gots some time...

Good Luck !

[lwsx 0]

if an in china wedding party is done right, it's a damned good deal. i paid more for 25 guests in the states than i did for 300 in luoyang. sure, it's a show, but every mainland chinese wants to be a movie star at least once in their life.

I've had 20 guests dinners that came out less than dinner for four here, as well as getting more than 3 squares on $10 by myself. not to mention the food is a lot better than here - as long as you're careful.

But times are changing, for weddings in China anyway. http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2008-02...ent_6437342.htm

Before my fiance & I got serious, I lamented about how expensive weddings are in general. Her response was, "If that's the case, then poor people would be single". And that's when I knew.

lwsx - hey - that's cool. if nothing else - you've solidified the plan, a bit. That's always useful, IMO.

Hang in there, mon - you gots some time...

Good Luck !

Thanks, it's going to be a long wait