Canadians feeling guilty about taking jobs away from Americans?

[minnew 4]

I agree Udella my grandparents were the same way, they told my mom and her siblings to learn English & do well in school. The attitude that WE (as in English speakers) should have to adapt to non English speakers floors me in this day and age. I understand completely if they are TRYING to learn the language and adapting to US culture by using English.

Pretty bad when the employees at walmart cannot even help you find something because thy don't speak a word of english.... How exactly is that customer service?

English is the official language of the United States... Since when is it Spanish? So all new immigrants to the US should have to learn Spanish as well? Come on.... It's the same thing in Canada... Yes you learn French in school but unless you USE it the language learned will be forgotten. Especially if you do not live in a predominantly French speaking area of Canada.

Overcome and adapt... That's my husbands motto...it's should be for all new immigrants, including myself. Which means understanding the city & area I live in, also means more competition for jobs. I don't feel guilty at all! At least I am LEGAL!!! Also means that I WILL be passed over for some jobs in my career field because I don't speak Spanish. Unfortunatley it's happening more and more...."spanish speaking preferred" or "required" is becoming the norm... It shouldn't be that way.

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Overcome and adapt... That's my husbands motto...it's should be for all new immigrants, including myself. Which means understanding the city & area I live in, also means more competition for jobs. I don't feel guilty at all! At least I am LEGAL!!! Also means that I WILL be passed over for some jobs in my career field because I don't speak Spanish. Unfortunatley it's happening more and more...."spanish speaking preferred" or "required" is becoming the norm... It shouldn't be that way.

I completely agree. I totally respect TM's and Sprail's position(s) on the issue, but I still believe that the onus is on the individual immigrant to verse himself/herself in the language of the country he/she is moving to. I don't care about what language one speaks on the subway, in a restaurant, at the mall or at home...but if you have to have ANY interaction with other people of the same country, be sure you know how to speak the language sufficiently enough that the other person can understand you. It's not racism or cultural bias...It's common sense.

[minnew 4]

I completely agree. I totally respect TM's and Sprail's position(s) on the issue, but I still believe that the onus is on the individual immigrant to verse himself/herself in the language of the country he/she is moving to. I don't care about what language one speaks on the subway, in a restaurant, at the mall or at home...but if you have to have ANY interaction with other people of the same country, be sure you know how to speak the language sufficiently enough that the other person can understand you. It's not racism or cultural bias...It's common sense.

Totally agreed!

[Sprailenes 47]

I am not saying that I am adapting to their needs, or think they shouldn't learn to speak the language at all.

I am saying we shouldn't assume that they aren't trying. Their accents aren't going to go away over night, the language isn't going to be learned over night either. So should they stay in their homes and not go out and communicate with the general public until they can speak English sufficiently? Because communicating is one way to learn.

We take our language for granted. We don't realize how hard English is to learn. How so many immigrants do come, work during the day, and go to ESL classes at night.

Overcome and adapt? Sure... but it's not going to happen quickly for these people. Much easier said than done.

I don't think any of us can really make the judgement call on who's trying and who's not.

[Sprailenes 47]

English is the official language of the United States... Since when is it Spanish? So all new immigrants to the US should have to learn Spanish as well? Come on.... It's the same thing in Canada... Yes you learn French in school but unless you USE it the language learned will be forgotten. Especially if you do not live in a predominantly French speaking area of Canada.

Oh by the way the United States doesn't actually have an "official" language. Just because the majority of the population speaks it, does not mean it's the official language.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sprailenes

[Wyatt's Torch 45]

Overcome and adapt? Sure... but it's not going to happen quickly for these people. Much easier said than done.

I don't think any of us can really make the judgement call on who's trying and who's not.

The process should start well before they even immigrate, in my opinion. I'm just thinking from what *I* would find to be common sense. If I was moving to, say, Poland for some reason or another, as soon as I knew that I would be doing that, I'd be taking Polish lessons. I'd be doing my best to ensure that I could communicate with my new countrymen. I'd be doing this largely for myself. I know that communication is the key to integration. And I wouldn't dream of taking a job that required frequent dealings with the public until I was certain that my ability to speak Polish was up to snuff.

I'm reminded of the tragic case of Robert Dziekanski from a couple of years ago. He was killed in Vancouver's airport after being tasered repeatedly by the police. He didn't speak a word of English, and had just gotten off the plane from Poland. He was being held in a security area because there was no way of communicating with him. Now, this case is indeed tragic, and I don't think there was any reason for him to be taken down the way he was. That was horrible. However, if he HAD learned a bit of basic English before he had arrived in an English-speaking country, there would have been no situation.

I guess it's an "agree to disagree" issue, but in my view, communication is too important to ignore prior to immigration.

[Flames9_RN 358]

The process should start well before they even immigrate, in my opinion. I'm just thinking from what *I* would find to be common sense. If I was moving to, say, Poland for some reason or another, as soon as I knew that I would be doing that, I'd be taking Polish lessons. I'd be doing my best to ensure that I could communicate with my new countrymen. I'd be doing this largely for myself. I know that communication is the key to integration. And I wouldn't dream of taking a job that required frequent dealings with the public until I was certain that my ability to speak Polish was up to snuff.

I'm reminded of the tragic case of Robert Dziekanski from a couple of years ago. He was killed in Vancouver's airport after being tasered repeatedly by the police. He didn't speak a word of English, and had just gotten off the plane from Poland. He was being held in a security area because there was no way of communicating with him. Now, this case is indeed tragic, and I don't think there was any reason for him to be taken down the way he was. That was horrible. However, if he HAD learned a bit of basic English before he had arrived in an English-speaking country, there would have been no situation.

I guess it's an "agree to disagree" issue, but in my view, communication is too important to ignore prior to immigration.

Lot of that was POOR training!! We at the hospital have pts that speak no English and we use AT&T language line! call then up and they provide a translator! I would think the police would have access to that

[minnew 4]

I am not saying that I am adapting to their needs, or think they shouldn't learn to speak the language at all.

I am saying we shouldn't assume that they aren't trying. Their accents aren't going to go away over night, the language isn't going to be learned over night either. So should they stay in their homes and not go out and communicate with the general public until they can speak English sufficiently? Because communicating is one way to learn.

We take our language for granted. We don't realize how hard English is to learn. How so many immigrants do come, work during the day, and go to ESL classes at night.

Overcome and adapt? Sure... but it's not going to happen quickly for these people. Much easier said than done.

I don't think any of us can really make the judgement call on who's trying and who's not.

I respect your point about the immigrants that DO try to adapt, take ESL classes and try to maintain a stable living in the US. What I was talking about in my post was immigrants who do NOT adapt, whether they are legal or illegal, they come to the USA and do not learn to communicate via the English language. I realize that learning a language does not happen overnight, neither does adaptation to a different culture.

Oh by the way the United States doesn't actually have an "official" language. Just because the majority of the population speaks it, does not mean it's the official language.

I stand corrected. It is still the accepted language of the United States and many states have declared English as the official language.

The process should start well before they even immigrate, in my opinion. I'm just thinking from what *I* would find to be common sense. If I was moving to, say, Poland for some reason or another, as soon as I knew that I would be doing that, I'd be taking Polish lessons. I'd be doing my best to ensure that I could communicate with my new countrymen. I'd be doing this largely for myself. I know that communication is the key to integration. And I wouldn't dream of taking a job that required frequent dealings with the public until I was certain that my ability to speak Polish was up to snuff.

I guess it's an "agree to disagree" issue, but in my view, communication is too important to ignore prior to immigration.

Agreed, I would try to learn the accepted and/or official language of the country.

[bowflex 0]

I'm not gonna get too into this thread but just so everyone knows, the Spanish population in the US is growing exponentially and white English speakers will be the minority in a few generations. Hope everyone's ready to go back to school and learn Spanish by some of the reasoning in this thread

[Revenesque 2]

I am actually quite patient with people who can't speak proper English. I am not going to assume how long they've been here. Even if they've been here for a few years, their accent isn't going to 'go away' and they say that English is one of the most difficult languages to learn.

Yes, I have called comcast and I have had trouble understanding the person on the other end. I try to imagine how hard it is for them, and how often during a day they probably get yelled at by people who want them to speak "proper English".

I can't imagine how hard it is for someone to come here, not know the language, try to learn it along with everything else in this country. I am overwhelmed by the change sometimes, and I CAN speak the language, and I am from a country that is compared to the US a lot.

I understand we all want people to speak English, so that our lives aren't interrupted, and we aren't inconvenienced... but I think it's harder for that person than it is for us.

I mean I have seen shirts and bumper stickers that say: "Welcome to America, SPEAK ENGLISH" that attitude just floors me. What's even more funny is that these shirts/sayings are supposed to be aimed at people who can't speak English, so if they can't speak it, I don't think they can read your shirt either there moron.

I think we assume a little too much. Just because you get someone on a customer service line who can't speak "properly" doesn't mean they aren't trying. Just because they're here now, doesn't mean they've been here for years and have refused to learn the language.

Well said, Sprailenes. My family and I are first generation immigrants--I was still in ESL in highschool. My parents still struggle with the language--my Mom, who's retired now, is taking english speaking classes. You captured my thoughts exactly. :-)

Edited February 18, 2010 by Revenesque

[Sprailenes 47]

I'm not gonna get too into this thread but just so everyone knows, the Spanish population in the US is growing exponentially and white English speakers will be the minority in a few generations. Hope everyone's ready to go back to school and learn Spanish by some of the reasoning in this thread

Exactly! Overcome and adapt though right?

I was actually just talking to my husband the other day about taking a Spanish class in the evenings at the local community college. I think Spanish would be a great language to learn and I have no issues with learning it, especially if it gives me an upper hand when it comes to employment.

I'll take that job thank you very much! Or should I say muchas gracias!

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sprailenes

[Revenesque 2]

The process should start well before they even immigrate, in my opinion. I'm just thinking from what *I* would find to be common sense. If I was moving to, say, Poland for some reason or another, as soon as I knew that I would be doing that, I'd be taking Polish lessons. I'd be doing my best to ensure that I could communicate with my new countrymen. I'd be doing this largely for myself. I know that communication is the key to integration. And I wouldn't dream of taking a job that required frequent dealings with the public until I was certain that my ability to speak Polish was up to snuff.

I agree with you but only for those immigrants who have been given time to prepare for immigration (via the time during visa application process) and have the financial means to take language classes. But not all immigrants come to a new country by the "proper" way.

My family and I are an example--we were one of the "Boat People", exiles from Vietnam. We arrived in Canada, penniless, with refugee status by pure stroke of luck and compassion from the Canadian people and the Canadian government. To expect that we should have learned the language before we arrive on the shores of Canada is very unrealistic.

[Sprailenes 47]

I agree with you but only for those immigrants who have been given time to prepare for immigration (via the time during visa application process) and have the financial means to take language classes. But not all immigrants come to a new country by the "proper" way.

My family and I are an example--we were one of the "Boat People", exiles from Vietnam. We arrived in Canada, penniless, with refugee status by pure stroke of luck and compassion from the Canadian people and the Canadian government. To expect that we should have learned the language before we arrive on the shores of Canada is very unrealistic.

This is exactly my point.

How can we assume that every immigrant is able to learn the language before arriving or right away when we don't know every immigrants story?

I am just saying that sometimes, that person on the other end of the phone, you're getting frustrated with, or that person in Walmart attempting to tell you where to find the John Deer equipment or guns, could be in the same shoes revenesque was in.

Edited February 18, 2010 by Sprailenes

[trailmix 77]

I guess what I see is that immigrants are being singled out. If it were any other 'thing' that made the person a poor customer service representative, like poor manners, a condescending attitude, poor communication skills - would we be saying, it is up to the employee to take manner, attitude and communication training?

I don't think so, I think most of us would be on the phone to the manager questioning why that employee is on the phone talking to us.

People with English as a second language are easy targets. It has nothing to do with them being immigrants.

Edited February 18, 2010 by trailmix

[Malrothien 6]

Being bi+ lingual is a GOOD thing - that is all I'm going to say.