V-day vs W-day

[visaveteran 1]

More tainted US data on communist party data:

Party Membership

The Party was never a body that one could join at a whim; members had to be nominated, their backgrounds checked and, once they had been admitted, serve a candidate stage before being accepted into full membership. In the early years, class background was crucial for entry, but from 1939 the formal preference given to members of the working class was dropped and people were admitted regardless of the class to which they belonged; from 1961, the Party was officially a Party of "all the people." Members were always a minority within Soviet society. In 1986, before membership began to plummet in the late 1980s, there were 18,309,693 full and 728,253 candidate members, constituting9.7 percent of the adult population. The Party remained heavily male; in 1986 only 28.8 percent of members were women. Members were subject to Party discipline, had to attend regular Party meetings, obey all Party instructions, pay membership dues, and continually conduct themselves according to the rules of the Party and the principles of what it meant to be a good communist. While the tasks were not onerous for non-office bearers, at various times they did impinge on individuals' lives. This was especially the case if someone became subject to Party discipline, when such an entry on someone's personnel file could have significant future consequences for career advancement; being expelled from the Party was worse than never having been a member.

Party members generally gained few advantages over non-Party citizens. Officeholders were more fortunate in this regard. Just as there was a graduated scale of the power to fill office, there was a similar scale regarding access to privileges and to goods that were not widely available. In a deficit economy like that of the Soviet Union, access to scarce goods was a real bonus, and those who held official positions gained such access. The level and range of availability differed according to the level of position one occupied, but because all of the leading positions were determined by the Party, it was the Party that determined who got access to such goods. The Party was thus the key to access to privilege in the Soviet Union.

[Martyshk 137]

And now count everyone in Komsomol, which was basically a branch anyway, just as you know. Now count out all the kids. And you have an overwhelming part of the population in the Party.

Oh, and it's sweet that you assume I'm Russian (or even pro-Russian too).

[visaveteran 1]

And now count everyone in Komsomol, which was basically a branch anyway, just as you know. Now count out all the kids. And you have an overwhelming part of the population in the Party.

Oh, and it's sweet that you assume I'm Russian (or even pro-Russian too).

I read about 10% of the adult population were in the party. This varied at different times of course.

If I was wrong that you are Russian decent, I stand corrected. Whether you clear up who exactly you are is up to you.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Brad,

First, thanks for your service as a US Marine. And you and I, as soldiers, both swore allegiance to the USA. I still take that oath seriously.

Second, I don't see things any better in the world today. Iran is absolutist. North Korea is absolutist. Bin Laden is absolutist. And they all hate the USA. I think these enemies are more a threat than the Soviet Union. My issue with Russia is it helps empower these nut jobs with arms and technology...and the power to protect them with UN vetoes. Frankly, I'm tired of Russia's anti-American stance and gamesmanship.

Some good points about the UN chess game VV. As far as the antiAmericanism goes, I look at that as a part of being the only superpower left standing. When you are at the top of the mountain, every one wants to push you off. Sour grapes mostly. I think the thing that binds North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, etc. is that America has declared them enemies publicly. They retaliate by rattling their sabers, and it gives Russia and China a great opportunity to reach out to them and so put their thumb in Uncle Sam's eye again.

You might see from my comments that I am anything but pro-socialist or pro-Russian (I mean |Russian government, the people are awesome). My position relative to Mapt's statements was just that there was paranoia and propaganda enough on both sides. I have said many times that I always knew I would meet Eastern Europeans in my lifetime - but when I was young I just assumed they would be trying to kill me. I am most happy that things worked out differently.

[Ban Hammer 13,349]

personal attack/baiting post and post quoting it removed.

if you can't discuss the topic without resorting to personal attacks, press alt f4.

[visaveteran 1]

Some good points about the UN chess game VV. As far as the antiAmericanism goes, I look at that as a part of being the only superpower left standing. When you are at the top of the mountain, every one wants to push you off. Sour grapes mostly. I think the thing that binds North Korea, Iran, Cuba, Belarus, etc. is that America has declared them enemies publicly. They retaliate by rattling their sabers, and it gives Russia and China a great opportunity to reach out to them and so put their thumb in Uncle Sam's eye again.

You might see from my comments that I am anything but pro-socialist or pro-Russian (I mean |Russian government, the people are awesome). My position relative to Mapt's statements was just that there was paranoia and propaganda enough on both sides. I have said many times that I always knew I would meet Eastern Europeans in my lifetime - but when I was young I just assumed they would be trying to kill me. I am most happy that things worked out differently.

Brad,

Good points. I agree with your analysis. I, too, admire the Russian people...many who have been kind to me.

[Martyshk 137]

I read about 10% of the adult population were in the party. This varied at different times of course.

If I was wrong that you are Russian decent, I stand corrected. Whether you clear up who exactly you are is up to you.

I was born and raised in Crimea, which, interestingly, can neither be attributed to either Russia or Ukraine.

And yes, the keyword is adult population. Just like when you think about people of voting age, that diminishes the country's population by quite a bit.

Also, if you count out all of the minorities, that (for some exceptions) were not allowed to join the Party, it makes for a big number of people, proportionate to the population

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Waiting for your authentic Russian data. Please, inform us ignorant Americans.

All students in Ukraine were required to join and attend Young Pioneers, starting in grade school...like first grade. As High school students they were required to join and attend the Komsomol, the youth branch of the Communist Party. They were required to do work "for the party and for the country" such as being carried in trucks to rural areas and helping farmers at harvest time. Membership was not optional. For someone who seems so set against Russians you seen to make it sound like no more than a nuisance that the communist party existed. Strange. Your wife was never in the Komsomol? You are etiher seriously misinformed or your wife is very young. Mine was, I have quite a few photos of her in her uniforms.

How is it you can condemn them so stringly in one post, then a few posts later pooh-pooh it as if it didn't exist?

I will agree that lower level party membership was probably not such a great advantage. My MIL was a party member and high placed worker, but her lot in life was little different than anyone else's. Other than a nice vacation once a year and maybe a somewhat upgraded flat (but not much) she didn't get much else for it.

[eekee 182]

Gary is correct, except that before Young Pioneers (age 10), children were Little Octoberists (age 7).

[visaveteran 1]

Your wife was never in the Komsomol? You are etiher seriously misinformed or your wife is very young. Mine was, I have quite a few photos of her in her uniforms.

No, my wife and her parents (factory workers) never belonged to the communist party or any subgroup. And she did live under Breznev and lived in "the suburbs" of Siberia. The research I have done shows only a minority of the Soviet population belonged to the party. If you have different data, please cite it.

[Martyshk 137]

Gary is correct, except that before Young Pioneers (age 10), children were Little Octoberists (age 7).

Hell, I still have my Star with Lenin's portrait in it from when I was sworn in as a Little Octoberist.

[visaveteran 1]

I was born and raised in Crimea, which, interestingly, can neither be attributed to either Russia or Ukraine.

And yes, the keyword is adult population. Just like when you think about people of voting age, that diminishes the country's population by quite a bit.

Also, if you count out all of the minorities, that (for some exceptions) were not allowed to join the Party, it makes for a big number of people, proportionate to the population

I understand the Crimea is a beautiful place...and unique in it's history. Thanks for letting me know about your birthplace.

[eekee 182]

No, my wife and her parents (factory workers) never belonged to the communist party or any subgroup. And she did live under Breznev and lived in "the suburbs" of Siberia. The research I have done shows only a minority of the Soviet population belonged to the party. If you have different data, please cite it.

if she went to school, she participated in these groups. Even in Siberia.

As far as official, adult party members, yes, that's a different story. But Pioneers etc.? Everyone.

[visaveteran 1]

if she went to school, she participated in these groups. Even in Siberia.

As far as official, adult party members, yes, that's a different story. But Pioneers etc.? Everyone.

I asked her and, yes, for a period she did belong to the Little Octoberists but later on nothing. Her high school was run by a German who hated the communists. I think she escaped from the orthodoxy due to the changes in Russia after Breznev died and eventually Gorbachev came in.

[Ovaltine Jenkins 5]

Facts straight? Here's what I found about IWD. "Started as a political event in USA, the holiday blended in the culture of many countries (primarily Russia and the countries of former Soviet bloc)."

There, fixed that for you