Wealthy Countries Citizens

[FortLaudy 10]

Thank you very much to all of you guys who answered my questions and I was really surprised that most of the people who answered in this topic are open minded, educated and intelligent.

However, I was a bit disappointed for some who are obviously defensive when it comes to answering the question.

My intention wasn't intended to offend those people who are marrying US citizen in order to have a better life in the US. I am just confused, as you can see even the citizens of countries who happened to be a member of G-8 are moving to the US and because I have no idea of their purpose for as far as I know they have better lives back to their homelands.

On the other hand I know there will be some people who will misunderstand my question, perhaps because I mentioned specific countries, like mine who happen to have most of the people needs to fulfill their dreams and have a better life in the US.

Great opportunities are all around the US, compare to my country, our rights and priviliges as citizens are being neglected because of our vicious and corrupt government. If someone from the Philippines will disagree about this, answer this question?

Why the Philippines is the number one country of having a Brain Drain problem?

Once again, thank you guys!!

So I guess that's all that counts for you... looking for a better life in the USA? For most of us our number 1 reason is to be with the person we love, no matter which country he/she is in... but yes, I do understand some people only get married and move to the USA for "a better life in the US", just realize we don't all move here because we only have the option of "fulfilling our dreams" by moving to another country, being with the person we love is a dream fullfilled and nothing to do with in which country we get to live together...

[Niels Bohr 72]

Honestly,

I prefer living in a third world country provided that I am in retirement age. Reason, cost of living is cheap, and I don't have to worry about overspending.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Whoa, easy tiger! You were surprised to get open-minded, educated and intelligent answers? I'm sure, again, that you weren't intending to be offensive but that is an offensive way of summarizing your expectations of 'wealthy nationals' who choose to immigrate to the US. You could well have said "I could only assume that anyone moving here from a G-8 country must be totally stupid."

If you were surprised by the answers, why were you also disappointed by those who found it offensive?

This is a fairly common mindset of someone who has little to no experience of the actual cost of capitalism and a stable economy. When Germany was still split between East and West, Western relatives were often sent lists of items that were in scarce supply or extortionately expensive for their Eastern families to bring as gifts. They could include things like 'Washing Machine with Turbo Spin' '4 new Pirelli tyres' and would end up being hurt and upset if their 'wealthy' Western relatives didn't bring them the items. They looked at what they were earning and compared it to what similiar items at home cost, and figured that they shouldn't have any issues about affording big ticket items. They didn't factor in higher costs of living when salaries are higher.

Same goes for England. Most London based jobs with national corporations or public services/ local government have 'London Weighting'. This is because the cost of living in and around London is significantly higher than in other areas of the country. Yes, we have more bankers and fewer steel workers but that's not the issue. My North Eastern relatives look at the salaries that we can command and go 'I'd get much less for doing exactly the same job! That's not fair." But they can buy a 3bed house on what it costs me to get a 1 bed apartment 12 miles outside of the city centre. The end result is they're paid less for the same job but can afford a lifestyle that I couldn't.

Depends what your dream is, surely? Mine is to work to live, not live to work. To have a happy marriage and not feel claustrophobic because we're packed like sardines in this city. And to afford to be able to buy my own home. I can buy a 3bed house with a pool in Tucson for less than I could buy a basement studio in London...

But the honest answer is we're moving for love and out of respect for the individuals involved in this relationship. My fiance spent 6 months in England and was miserable. He's close to his family and friends, likes good mexican food, gets cold easily (he's hypothyroid) whereas my family are used to living in different parts of the world from each other, I dont mind American food, and I love the fact that the sun shines even on the colder winter days. The constant cloudy grey from October to March is oppressive. But most importantly I want us all to be happy. My daughter thrives in a family environment, adores my fiance and has more opportunities educationally than she'd have here. No marriage can succeed if one is perpetually utterly miserable, no family can grow if any is stifled.

That was very refreshing, often a lot of attention gets focused on the problems were dealing with here in the USA and not the positives. Im glad to have you here and if you havent already I hope you come to love this country as much as I do.

Edited February 10, 2010 by _Simpson_

[skidivawannabe 2]

Just because someone lives in a poor country doesn't necessarily mean that he doesn't live comfortably in his home country and just because someone lives in a rich country doesn't necessarily mean that he's living a comfortable and better life in his home country.

If you want to simplify your life and not have nannies and drivers or buy new things every week, you can do it without moving to US. Show them that you can stand on your own.

You don't need to deal with what everyone is saying. Otherwise you will go crazy. Only you can make the decision for yourself. If you let them decide for you, regardless where you are, you will never learn and you will never be independent.

Philippines is not that isolated. If you want your children to be exposed to different nationalities, you can still do that. As you've said, you're living a charmed life there, surely you can afford to send your children to international schools where they will be able to see different faces...

Anyways...

My husband would be happy to live with me in the Philippines instead but I know it won't be practical. My husband has a stable job here and his salary is more than 100% of what I was earning in there. Surely if we'll move there, there's a chance that he could get a good job also but the salary would be much lower. Granted that the cost of living here is so much higher than in the Philippines, it will still be easier for us to save enough money here to be able to retire in the Philippines someday soon.

Also, even before we got married, I already knew about his parents wish for him to live nearby so he can look after his younger siblings since the parents are not getting any younger anymore. They are good parents-in-law to me and for that I'm very happy to respect that wish.

Why do we have to move out of the Philippines just to be independent? Because it's not easy to do that in the Philippines. To achieve a good and reasonable level of comfort in the Philippines takes a lot of money - -as in a whole lot of money. As simple as the best and most reputable schools - - these are the most expensive schools. Unless my kid is a super science genius or an art prodigy, then public school in the Philippines is NOT an option for us ( I say this because I can only send my child to either Philippine Science HS or Philippine HIgh School of the Arts if I have to go public). Do you know how much the tuition is for schools such as the Ateneo, La Salle, St. Scholastica, etc? What more for international schools like ISM, BSM or Brent?

To achieve the quality of life we want in the Philippines is just too expensive.

I'm not saying U.S is the land of milk and honey. But a middle income job can take you to more places here than a middle income job in the Philippines. Public school may be an option here. Just move to a strong public school district and you still have the chance to get a good education.

Class distinction in the Philippines is another issue. It can be unhealthy to raise kids in an environment where in one is judged based on their addresses or schools. People belonging to high-income families will most likely assimilate themselves only with ones who are similar to them. Home grown kids tend to be spoiled and no matter how much you try not to...Someone (like grandparents) will end up spoiling them, which is not healthy. I've seen the stark difference between my nephew raised here in the U.S and my nephew raised in Manila. The one raised here can eat on his own at 2 years old. The one back home is spoonfed and chased after by his nanny for the next bite (LOL).

I love my country. I love the Philippines. But I will be the first one to say that there are cultural and social factors (mainly influenced by our colonizers, I suppose) that are downright unhealthy. No matter how much we deny it, we're still very much influenced with that "indio"(island locals), "peninsulares", "insulares", "mestizo" etc mentality. We only use different terms now: "sosyal" (elite), "jologs" (ghetto). There's a silent, unspoken yet very obvious caste system of some sort. Sad but true.

[Lancelotte25 1]

I am still somewhat baffled by your inability to understand why on a FAMILY IMMIGRATION FORUM people would choose to leave their countries and move to the USA. Seriously?

Yes, I understand your point..but, why did you end up with the idea of building your family in the States and not in your country? which happen to be wealthy and I believe Germany has a very good economic stability not to mention BMW and Mercedes Benz is dominating the car industry when it comes to luxury cars.

My point is, we choose to move to the US to have a better future for our future family which is somehow impossible in the Philippines but not with other rich countries like yours.

[Lancelotte25 1]

Why do we have to move out of the Philippines just to be independent? Because it's not easy to do that in the Philippines. To achieve a good and reasonable level of comfort in the Philippines takes a lot of money - -as in a whole lot of money. As simple as the best and most reputable schools - - these are the most expensive schools. Unless my kid is a super science genius or an art prodigy, then public school in the Philippines is NOT an option for us ( I say this because I can only send my child to either Philippine Science HS or Philippine HIgh School of the Arts if I have to go public). Do you know how much the tuition is for schools such as the Ateneo, La Salle, St. Scholastica, etc? What more for international schools like ISM, BSM or Brent?

To achieve the quality of life we want in the Philippines is just too expensive. This is my point.

I'm not saying U.S is the land of milk and honey. But a middle income job can take you to more places here than a middle income job in the Philippines. Public school may be an option here. Just move to a strong public school district and you still have the chance to get a good education.

Class distinction in the Philippines is another issue. It can be unhealthy to raise kids in an environment where in one is judged based on their addresses or schools. People belonging to high-income families will most likely assimilate themselves only with ones who are similar to them. Home grown kids tend to be spoiled and no matter how much you try not to...Someone (like grandparents) will end up spoiling them, which is not healthy. I've seen the stark difference between my nephew raised here in the U.S and my nephew raised in Manila. The one raised here can eat on his own at 2 years old. The one back home is spoonfed and chased after by his nanny for the next bite (LOL).

I love my country. I love the Philippines. But I will be the first one to say that there are cultural and social factors (mainly influenced by our colonizers, I suppose) that are downright unhealthy. No matter how much we deny it, we're still very much influenced with that "indio"(island locals), "peninsulares", "insulares", "mestizo" etc mentality. We only use different terms now: "sosyal" (elite), "jologs" (ghetto). There's a silent, unspoken yet very obvious caste system of some sort. Sad but true.

Thanks for your inputs Kabayan..very well said.

[Lancelotte25 1]

Honestly,

I prefer living in a third world country provided that I am in retirement age. Reason, cost of living is cheap, and I don't have to worry about overspending.

Yes, retiring is more preferably with countries like us but in order to have a better retirement benefits you have to work hard and save for that future. In our country, if you are a ordinary worker having US $200 monthly income, I am pretty much sure that you will never have a better retirement benefits. Unlike in the US, you work hard and you will earn enough and attain your plans in future.

[Lancelotte25 1]

Hello Kabayan! :-) Kamusta? (how are you?)

To answer your question, why did we choose to live in the U.S...

I will answer for my husband and I.

At the risk of sounding boastful and arrogant. My husband (now I) decided to relocate to the U.S because we have a better chance of being independent here than in the Philippines.

To many of us and our peers, everything is spoon fed. Inherited. A lot of people will work their souls off in some other country just to give their children the lives we had in the Philippines. "Charmed Life" as people may say. But we chose to simplify our lives here in the U.S. Goodbye yayas (nannies), goodbye drivers. Goodbye weekly pairs of shoes or new clothes. Thing is, it's not all about that. Where's the sense of fulfillment if we can't be 100% independent?

It will be very hard for us to grow up and be our own selves in the Philippines. You are very well aware of how Filipino families work. Everyone is most likely minding your business even if they shouldn't. We don't want to have to deal with that.

I miss everything about the Philippines. My whole life was there - - friends, family, etc. But now that I am here, I realize the beauty of having to raise my own (future) family here. Diversity. I must admit, if you live in such an isolated country like the Philippines, it takes a while for you to get used to dealing with people of various nationalities (unless you're a travel bug). Sometimes it's downright unhealthy to grow up surrounded by the same kind of people your whole life. I am happy that I will give my future children the opportunity to go to school and work with different nationalities. I am happy he will grow up seeing different faces - - asian, european, african, etc. :-)

So yes, there are varied answers as to why people choose to migrate from one country to another...One is to seek greener pastures, others just happen to fall in love with someone who lives miles (and timezones!).

[skidivawannabe 2]

Call this delayed reaction, but I'm beginning to understand why some people took this query negatively.

Most cases in VJ are family immigration cases -- I see a lot of K1/K2 visa holders more than anything. It's safe to assume these people migrated/will migrate to the U.S because of LOVE, more than anything.

What these people probably fail to put into consideration is that there is a group migrants here who are being petitioned by their relatives who originally came to the U.S on an H status or anything related to work and their petitioners migrated to seek greener pastures.

It's interesting to be in this forum because to tell you frankly, there are quite a number of stories and opinions that are very new to me.

[Aubrey 10]

Call this delayed reaction, but I'm beginning to understand why some people took this query negatively.

Most cases in VJ are family immigration cases -- I see a lot of K1/K2 visa holders more than anything. It's safe to assume these people migrated/will migrate to the U.S because of LOVE, more than anything.

What these people probably fail to put into consideration is that there is a group migrants here who are being petitioned by their relatives who originally came to the U.S on an H status or anything related to work and their petitioners migrated to seek greener pastures.

It's interesting to be in this forum because to tell you frankly, there are quite a number of stories and opinions that are very new to me.

Well said.

Even if the intent of the OP wasn't great, I still find it an interesting topic to read. Of course the majority of us have foreign fiances and spouses coming for love. But I like reading the individual nature of the choices -- choosing between two countries that are similar in many ways (developed nations with stable economies).

It's ironic, though, to ask the question during such a global recession. Right now, the U.S. isn't exactly the land of promise...

But for my husband and I (I guess we're among the OP's country list), the choice was pretty straight forward. I was in school, I don't speak German, and he was struggling with a job hunt there. The German is coming slowly right now, but when money picks up I'll pick up Rosetta Stone and learn it. We might move to Germany at some point down the road, depending on where life takes us. I've lived in a variety of places in the states, and only the remote areas made me feel great. But I loved the little taste of Germany I had.

[Lancelotte25 1]

So I guess that's all that counts for you... looking for a better life in the USA? For most of us our number 1 reason is to be with the person we love, no matter which country he/she is in... but yes, I do understand some people only get married and move to the USA for "a better life in the US", just realize we don't all move here because we only have the option of "fulfilling our dreams" by moving to another country, being with the person we love is a dream fullfilled and nothing to do with in which country we get to live together...

No, I love my wife and although partly, yes, I admit that being in the US will give us a better future unlike in the Philippines.

It is not the sole reason why I want to move to the US, but it is just a part of it. Building a bright future in the Philippines is impossible except if you were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. That is why Filipinos can be found in almost every country in the world because they want to have a better future for their families.

[SMR 368]

Yes, I understand your point..but, why did you end up with the idea of building your family in the States and not in your country? which happen to be wealthy and I believe Germany has a very good economic stability not to mention BMW and Mercedes Benz is dominating the car industry when it comes to luxury cars.

My point is, we choose to move to the US to have a better future for our future family which is somehow impossible in the Philippines but not with other rich countries like yours.

If I lived in NYC, for example, all my life and met a lot of people from Russia, for example, in NYC, I may notice that all the Russians I met in NYC wanted to come to America, either to live or to visit. If I was using your logic, I would then make the conclusion that all Russians want to come to America. I hope you realize the error in this logic. There are many Russians with no desire to come to America (I know, I have met them) but interestingly enough, you don't find them in NYC.

Similarly, there are very likely many American/German couples (to use your example) that move to Germany to live together. But they don't make a large showing on forums about immigration to the US.

If your question is simply to find out why the couples that are moving to America made that decision, acknowledging that there were those that made the other decision, I guess that is reasonable. But the answer likely lies in the nuances of personal situations including jobs, houses, family, schools, cars, and, in some cases, coin flips. I doubt you'll find a pattern.

[_Simpson_ 250]

Won't be too long till China starts mass producing them.

true

[SunDrop 59]

That is why Filipinos can be found in almost every country in the world...

So can the Irish, but the Irish economy was one of the strongest in Europe until the recent World Wide Recession...

[skidivawannabe 2]

Lancelot, you must understand the that "wealthy country citizens" (emphasis on the quotation marks) on this forums are mostly on k1/k2. Just check their signatures. I guess it goes w/o saying that it is indeed for love..?

Before people start looking down on Filipinos again, I guess you all should understand that it is very commonplace for Filipinos to go overseas to work to provide a better life for their families. Like I said in my earlier post, Philippines may be a third world country, but it's not "cheap" to "live" there, especially if you have certain standards. I don't know if this is the right term. Our purchasing power is low. You get more from your money elsewhere. (I'll use the United States as an example). 20 USD roughly converts to 1000 PHP and if you put what you can buy with that amount of money side by side - - you'll have more in the U.S. Yes, only the ones with the silver spoon on their mouths are likely to go to the best schools but some choose to get their spoons out of their mouths - -hence the move.

My answer before hand should sound shallow and sick to some of you because nowhere did I mention "love". That's why if you read carefully, I said, "my husband I" left the Philippines because I'm here for his reasons...Just so happens he's (what I would like to call an "accidental") USC and I have to go through some of the processes you guys are also going through right now.

It will take time for some to comprehend the stories behind our immigration and not all of us have the time to explain what our stories are. On the surface we're just a bunch of romantics who endured some form of long distance relationship but remind yourselves that similar as the forms and fees we fill out and pay are - - our stories are all different

Edited February 10, 2010 by skidivawannabe