Muslim lawyers will "burn alive" anyone who defends murdered 12 year old Christian

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

What is the 'religious' motive in this case? Are you suggesting that the only reason that the girl's family is being denied justice is because they are christians?

The fact that they are a lower class minority certainly plays a part.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

What is the 'religious' motive in this case? Are you suggesting that the only reason that the girl's family is being denied justice is because they are christians?

non-Muslims in Pakistan ARE regarded as sixth-class citizens (at best-case). In class-order of citizenship:

1. Top general staff of army
   
2. military officers of less than brigadier-equivalent rank
   
3. enlisted personnel
   
4. mullahs
   
5. non-clerical Muslim civilians
   
6. non-Muslims
   

(there are also ethnic heirarchies within each "class" I listed)

[Peikko 1,575]

non-Muslims in Pakistan ARE regarded as sixth-class citizens (at best-case). In class-order of citizenship:

1. Top general staff of army
   
2. military officers of less than brigadier-equivalent rank
   
3. enlisted personnel
   
4. mullahs
   
5. non-clerical Muslim civilians
   
6. non-Muslims
   

(there are also ethnic heirarchies within each "class" I listed)

Fair enough, but one has to ask, is any of this really about religion?

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

When a country's laws are based on a singular religion when there are many religions inside the country, how can it not be?

Edited February 8, 2010 by Sousuke

[Peikko 1,575]

When a country's laws are based on a singular religion when there are many religions inside the country, how can it not be?

There are no muslim laws that sanction abusing christian children that I am aware of. If there were, then that statement makes some sense. The problem is not that the laws are derived from the muslim religion, but that if you belong to a certain 'caste' the laws do not apply to you.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Which would make it a matter of social class, rather than of theology.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

There are no muslim laws that sanction abusing christian children that I am aware of. If there were, then that statement makes some sense. The problem is not that the laws are derived from the muslim religion, but that if you belong to a certain 'caste' the laws do not apply to you.

Or the victim is not "worth" bothering the law with...like a christian minority for instance.

Which would make it a matter of social class, rather than of theology.

In a society such as their's theology is interwoven with social class. They can not be separated.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Sousuke

[Peikko 1,575]

Or the victim is not "worth" bothering the law with...like a christian minority for instance.

In a society such as their's theology is interwoven with social class. They can not be separated.

There is nothing in the muslim religion that advocates violence against christians, period.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Or the victim is not "worth" bothering the law with...like a christian minority for instance.

In a society such as their's theology is interwoven with social class. They can not be separated.

Of course it can. If its not in the scripture - its not in the scripture.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

There is nothing in the muslim religion that advocates violence against christians, period.

Did I say this? No.

I'm not trying to scapegoat the muslim religion in general. However, there are clear signs of abuse towards other religions in Pakistan and the government turns a blind eye.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Sousuke

[Peikko 1,575]

I'm not trying to scapegoat the muslim religion in general. However, there are clear signs of abuse towards other religions in Pakistan and the government turns a blind eye.

They turn a blind eye to lots of corrupt and evil things. The point is, that it's not an example of how the muslim religion creates evil people. There are some nasty people in the world, when they get into positions of power, nasty things happen. The problem is that the political process is not robust and does not protect those who have no influence, no matter whether they are christians, or muslims or anything else. Yes, if you don't happen to be a muslim you will be pissed on by the poor muslims, who are pissed on by the rich muslims, who are pissed on by the muslim priests, who are pissed on by the military, who are pissed on by the political classes. It's not funny, it's not right and it would be great if it was different, but addressing the problem means addressing the corruption, not the religion.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

They turn a blind eye to lots of corrupt and evil things. The point is, that it's not an example of how the muslim religion creates evil people. There are some nasty people in the world, when they get into positions of power, nasty things happen. The problem is that the political process is not robust and does not protect those who have no influence, no matter whether they are christians, or muslims or anything else. Yes, if you don't happen to be a muslim you will be pissed on by the poor muslims, who are pissed on by the rich muslims, who are pissed on by the muslim priests, who are pissed on by the military, who are pissed on by the political classes. It's not funny, it's not right and it would be great if it was different, but addressing the problem means addressing the corruption, not the religion.

Its corruption OF the religion that is the issue.

[Peikko 1,575]

Its corruption OF the religion that is the issue.

No, it really isn't. It's corruption of the political system and the armed forces.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

No, it really isn't. It's corruption of the political system and the armed forces.

Again, in such a country religion is so interwoven that its one in the same when you mention the political system. I think we are arguing the same fact, just from two different perspectives.

Would it be better if I said that the leadership use Islam in a corrupt manner to further their power?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Again, in such a country religion is so interwoven that its one in the same when you mention the political system. I think we are arguing the same fact, just from two different perspectives.

Would it be better if I said that the leadership use Islam in a corrupt manner to further their power?

Based on what?