Homosexuals in the military? COnsider how Women are received.

[Danno 1,228]

THe Subject Of Gays in the military was being kicked around a few days back and AJ commented something like "They said the same about Women serving".

I happened to Stumble across this report posted on NPR... in which they were oddly enough, promoting moving women even closer into combat rolls and then followed it up with some of the info posted below.

LIke many, I have served and I have some idea what people.... indeed men, can be like and I would never give my blessing to a daughter wanting to serve in the Military... at least not as an Enlistee and certainly not in the Army (I admit prejudice).

THe military is not anything like your work place or your dorm life, especially during times the military is "in the field".

Men generally like women, if women are exposed to such an environment, what will be the result of introducing Men into service which are flaming homosexuals?

What environment are we talking about?

REad below.

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http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.p...oryId=103844570

The Nation: The Plight of Women Soldiers

by HELEN BENEDICT

In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving. And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, found that 90 percent had been sexually harassed.

The Defense Department shows much lower numbers, but that is because it only counts reported rapes—and, as the DoD admits itself in this year's annual Pentagon report on military sexual assault, some 90 percent of rapes in the military are ever reported at all. Nonetheless, that same report showed that in 2008, reports of assault increased by 8 percent military-wide, and by 26 percent in the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. For many women soldiers, the result of all this persecution is that instead of finding camaraderie among their fellow soldiers, or being able to rely on comrades to watch their backs in battle, they feel dangerously alone. As specialist Carlye Garcia, who was sexually harassed throughout her service with the Army Military Police in Baghdad from 2003-04, put it, "It got so I didn't trust anybody in my company after a few months. I didn't trust anybody at all. I still don't." The hostility and rejection can run right up through the ranks, too, as women commonly find when they try to report an assault. Some examples: when Lieutenant Jennifer Dyer refused to return to post with an officer she had reported for raping her, the army threatened to prosecute her for desertion.

When Specialist Suzanne Swift reported her sergeant for repeatedly raping her over months and then refused to redeploy under him, the army tried her by court martial for desertion and put her in prison for a month.

When Cassandra Hernandez of the Air Force reported being gang-raped by three comrades at her training acadamy, her command charged her with indecent behavior for consorting with her rapists.

When Sergeant Marti Ribeiro reported being raped by a fellow serviceman while she was on guard duty in Afghanistan, the Air Force threatened to court martial her for leaving her weapon behind during the attack. "That would have ruined by career," she said. "So I shut up."

All the men who were accused in these cases went unpunished. Several of them even won promotions.

The Defense Department claims that since 2005, it has instigated reforms that have created a "climate of confidentiality" that allows women to report without fear of being disbelieved, blamed, or punished like this. As Kaye Whitley, director of the Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Office (SAPRO), said at a press briefing at the Pentagon this past March 17, "The numbers have gone up and I reiterate, this does not mean sexual assaults have gone up, this means the number of reports have gone up, which we see as very positive as we're getting the victims in to get care."

In fact, nobody knows whether an increase in reported rapes means more rapes or more reports. And all the cases described above happened after the reforms of 2005.

Even when the military does accept a report of sexual assault, the consequences to the perpetrators tend to be negligible. Of the assaults reported and recorded by the Defense Department in the fiscal year 2008, 49 percent were dismissed as unfounded or unsubstantiated—meaning there wasn't enough proof of assault, or that the women recanted or died—and only 10.9 percent resulted in court martial.

Even those few men who are found guilty of sexual assault or rape tend to receive absurdly mild punishments, such as suspension, demotion, or a scolding letter for their file. In 2008, 62 percent of offenders found guilty received mild punishments like this. This amounts to a tiny fraction of the men accused of sexual assault. One particularly grotesque example of this sort of justice is the 2006 case of army sergeant Damon D. Shell, who ran over and killed 20-year-old Private First Class Hannah Gunterman McKinney of the 44th Corps Support Battalion on her base in Iraq on September 4. Shell pleaded guilty to drinking in a war zone, drunken driving and "consensual sodomy" with McKinney, an underage junior soldier to whom he had supplied alcohol until she was incapacitated. Having sex with a person incapacitated by alcohol is legally rape, and using rank to coerce a junior into a sexual act is legally rape in the military, too. Yet a military judge ruled McKinney's death an accident, said nothing about rape, and sentenced Shell to thirteen months in prison and demotion to private. Shell was not even kicked out of the army.

The military's retrograde attitude towards rape gets even more sinister. More female troops have died in Iraq of non-hostile causes than have been killed in battle, and several of those deaths have either been labeled suicides or been left unexplained by the military. Four of those women had earlier been raped, and at least sixteen others died in such suspicious circumstances that retired Army Colonel Ann Wright and Congressman Ike Skelton have called for Congress to compel the military to reopen the cases and investigate, so far to no avail.

One of the most shocking of these cases is that of 19-year-old LaVena Johnson, whose dead body was found on her base in Balad, Iraq in July 2005. Her father, who has pictures of her body, said her face was battered; she had been stripped, raped, burned, re-clothed, dragged across the ground bleeding and shot in the head. The Army initiated an investigation, then suddenly closed the case and labeled her death a suicide. Her father and Colonel Wright have been trying to get Congress and the Army to reopen the investigation ever since, but so far the Army has declined to cooperate.

The Defense Department has made some effort lately to improve its dismal record on military sexual assault. After a set of Congressional hearings on military sexual assault in July and September 2008, and again in January 2009, the army announced fresh programs designed to educate the troops on the prevention of sexual assault, and the hiring of more litigators to prosecute it. The other military branches, too, are revamping the sexual assault prevention classes that every new recruit must attend.

Whether these changes will make any difference is soon to be put to the test. The collapsing economy is driving numerous new recruits to the military, 16 to 29 percent of whom are women, depending on the branch of service. It remains to be seen whether these female troops will be as isolated, harassed or abused as their predecessors, or finally given the respect they deserve.

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[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

If there is institutionalized prejudice in the military, it should be weeded out.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

some 90 percent of rapes in the military are ever reported at all.

10 percent of the rapes not being reported is probably a lot lower than in the non-military world. I would venture to say that the incidence of sexual assault is higher on college campuses, and even smaller percentage of those incidents are probably ever reported. Anytime you get youth together, many for their first time away from home, and then throw alcohol (and other substances) into the mix, this stuff is going to happen.

I am not condoning the behavior: "No," means no, male or female. But, without adequate supervision, all kinds of things will go wrong. At least in the military, you can instill some sense of discipline into the environment.

Now, as the question as to whether homosexuals will be welcomed into the military, the OP misses the fact that homosexuals are already serving in the military.

On a lighter note, everyone knows, for every two sailors that go to sea, a couple of sailors returns.

[Niels Bohr 72]

Back to basics - To fight what is right is to not to give up the fight. I applaud those women who can tolerate such negativity from the military.

[Danno 1,228]

If there is institutionalized prejudice in the military, it should be weeded out.

When you get Colleges straightened out you can then move on to the military with it's 90/10 ratio.

[Pooky 3,844]

The Defense Department shows much lower numbers, but that is because it only counts reported rapes—and, as the DoD admits itself in this year's annual Pentagon report on military sexual assault, some 90 percent of rapes in the military are ever reported at all.

10 percent of the rapes not being reported is probably a lot lower than in the non-military world. I would venture to say that the incidence of sexual assault is higher on college campuses, and even smaller percentage of those incidents are probably ever reported. Anytime you get youth together, many for their first time away from home, and then throw alcohol (and other substances) into the mix, this stuff is going to happen.

You do know that his is a misprunt on the part of the original article. The 90% figure is for the unreported rapes and that changes the picture somewhat.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Danno, you're the one painting a picture of the military as being a hotbed of sexism and rape.

Why else are you posting this article other than to suggest somehow that homosexuals shouldn't serve because they wouldn't like it? What point are you trying to make with this article?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

10 percent of the rapes not being reported is probably a lot lower than in the non-military world. I would venture to say that the incidence of sexual assault is higher on college campuses, and even smaller percentage of those incidents are probably ever reported. Anytime you get youth together, many for their first time away from home, and then throw alcohol (and other substances) into the mix, this stuff is going to happen.

You do know that his is a misprunt on the part of the original article. The 90% figure is for the unreported rapes and that changes the picture somewhat.

Could be, but this is NPR we are talking about, and I would venture to say that the sentence is structured to give the impression you have. This is the anti-military liberal media we are talking about here.

[Pooky 3,844]

Could be, but this is NPR we are talking about, and I would venture to say that the sentence is structured to give the impression you have. This is the anti-military liberal media we are talking about here.

I think it's more the way that Americans mess with the language.

It sounds rather like the saying I hear a lot, "I could care less," which gives the impression that the speaker does care a little bit, when what they really should have said is "I couldn't care less," as in they don't care at all. I think the NPR article is just badly written.

[Danno 1,228]

Could be, but this is NPR we are talking about, and I would venture to say that the sentence is structured to give the impression you have. This is the anti-military liberal media we are talking about here.

Granted it is NPR with is anti-military but from my observation.... there is a lot of truth to the climate females face, even in a well disciplined unit which many aren't, especially activated Reservist.

The military environment is unique, the effort to turn it into a Glee club with guns is both futile and foolish.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Yeah... The military environment is unique, and so we should accept whatever bigotry and prejudice it contains.

Oh yes, and don't bother signing up if you are a woman or gay, because neither of those groups can behave in a professional manner. A Glee Club indeed

Danno, frankly some of the ideas you promote are just plain evil.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Why not put Danno and Shooter in a brigade of gay soldiers so they would be the only two supposed hetero's? What would the homophobe's do then?

[Danno 1,228]

Why not put Danno and Shooter in a brigade of gay soldiers so they would be the only two supposed hetero's? What would the homophobe's do then?

Is there a gay-brigade you know of?

(fantasy not included of course)

[Danno 1,228]

Yeah... The military environment is unique, and so we should accept whatever bigotry and prejudice it contains.

Oh yes, and don't bother signing up if you are a woman or gay, because neither of those groups can behave in a professional manner. A Glee Club indeed

Danno, frankly some of the ideas you promote are just plain evil.

I posted reports of abuse women have endured.. wholesale.

Your Ivory Tower dreams about how life should be are partially to blame..... and then you suggest "I am promoting ideas".

What ideas have I promoted... except the idea to, open your eyes.

[alienlovechild 75]

In 2003, a survey of female veterans found that 30 percent said they were raped in the military. A 2004 study of veterans who were seeking help for post-traumatic stress disorder found that 71 percent of the women said they were sexually assaulted or raped while serving. And a 1995 study of female veterans of the Gulf and earlier wars, found that 90 percent had been sexually harassed.

The article is largely ####### written by someone with an agenda that doesn't include reality.

The article trots out a survey done by whom and how many females were surveyed? I never heard about any rapes in any unit I served in and people do talk so a lot of people know what's going on. Granted, I'm not a woman but is there a single female vet on OT who'll confirm or deny the widespread problem of rape in the military?

Considering many female soldiers are married to male soldiers, one assumes either husbands are silent when their wives are raped or the rapes took place before they were married.