Do you truly love your fiancé???

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Why does it have to the SO's home country?

It could easily be anywhere else in the world. For example, Australia (and Canada) will give you a resident visa if you are willing to establish roots there with your family ... and if you have a professional degree that they can use by employing you.

I have friends living "legally" in Canada, Panama, and Australia with their families, just because these countries decided that it made sense to give residency to these qualified applicants.

For me, it is the same. If the USA does not appreciate my family, I will quickly leave and will not look back. Other countries will receive me with Open Arms! (maybe not Russia, though).

[Brad and Vika 129]

Oops... I just noticed that this is in a regional threat, sorry to intrude!

No problem! RUB appreciates the occasional friendly drive by visit.

[baron555 934]

Say for example your fiancé would not get a visa. And the only way for you to be with her(him) would be to move and live in Ukraine or Russia. And your fiancé would ask you to do it. Would you move to marry your fiancé and live in her(his) country?

Yes Slim and I still have that Plan B for the Fresh Papaya, Kavas, Pie and Ammunition Kiosks.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I am a little surprised that so many people said that they would move to Russia / Ukraine to be together with their fiancé. I think that most people who was born in USA and visited these countries only a few times for short period of time with $$$ in their pockets don’t realize what they would sign up for. I think that majority of people who was born in USA wouldn’t last there for more than a year if they had to work in some small Russian / Ukrainian city to support their family. Of course if you are rich and don’t have to work then it is a different story. This is just my opinion.

Maybe correct. I already lived there, albeit with a USA income, overseas bonus and living expense stipend. NO, I did not live as a Ukrainian and work 60 hours a week for $300 per month, nor would I. But neither would I live in a trailer park in Appalachia. That was never a consideration for us. The comparison, for us, was to live an average to slightly above average lifestyle in the USA OR live a far above average lifestyle in Ukraine. Either way is pretty good. Other than skiing, we actually had a more active social life in Ukraine, in a downtown city, than we do here in a rural area, perhaps not a fair comparision. It is my opinion all Americans age 18-20 should have to live in Ukraine and work in construction and then come back here and they will never complain about anything again.

Seriously, I can retire in a few years and Alla wants to teach English and we can live a lot better off on my income from retirement in our paid for flat in Ukraine than we can here, so it is definitely in our plans to spend a lot of time there, or maybe in another country. We both love to travel and it is best when someone else pays for it. She can get one year "working vacations" nearly anywhere in the world teaching English. Preferably in countries with beaches and skeet shooting.

Yes Slim and I still have that Plan B for the Fresh Papaya, Kavas, Pie and Ammunition Kiosks.

They have skeet shooting in Russia...I'm down for ammunition kiosks!

[Brad and Vika 129]

The comparison, for us, was to live an average to slightly above average lifestyle in the USA OR live a far above average lifestyle in Ukraine. Either way is pretty good. Other than skiing, we actually had a more active social life in Ukraine, in a downtown city, than we do here in a rural area, perhaps not a fair comparision.

Never having lived in Ukraine, I am surprised at the similarity in thinking and conversations we have with the wives. We both agree that either life at current income level is doable, and that it is an important consideration.

Social life is another issue. We find that we, and most of our friends, are so busy that we simply cannot get together as much as we like. The pace of life in Ukraine seems (at least to me) much slower - with emphasis placed on social contact rather than productivity. Honestly, that is part of the appeal of moving there for me. Now if I could just find the time to develop a true fluency in Russian....

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Never having lived in Ukraine, I am surprised at the similarity in thinking and conversations we have with the wives. We both agree that either life at current income level is doable, and that it is an important consideration.

Social life is another issue. We find that we, and most of our friends, are so busy that we simply cannot get together as much as we like. The pace of life in Ukraine seems (at least to me) much slower - with emphasis placed on social contact rather than productivity. Honestly, that is part of the appeal of moving there for me. Now if I could just find the time to develop a true fluency in Russian....

Oh we have had this discussion also, and we are working on a solution. Our flat in Donetsk is two blocks off the downtown "square", for lack of better term. A trolley line runs right down the middle of our street. There are buses and "little buses" everywhere. Shopping and theatre and the walk by the river is but a short walk from the house (the water in the river should be avoided but they made a really nice park to walk in) Theatre tickets are $3 for the cheap seats, $12 for up front and center. 5 minutes from home and we are sitting in the theatre and it costs us under $20. Here? It is an hour drive to the nearest theatre, cheapest seats $25, up front and center...$50. So to go to the theatre, for comparable seats and the needed gasoline is around $100 and consumes two hours just getting there and back! Not counting if we go out for dinner. Dinner and theatre in Donetsk is less than $50 at a nice restaraunt and we can walk to all of it easily from our flat. If we go to a show at Bell center in Montreal, it is about the same, and just a bit farther to drive. Driving to work and school is the same.

Our standard of living in both places is essentially, identical. If anything we are a notch or two higher in the "social strata" in Ukraine, for what it's worth, not much. By that I mean our home here is really run-of-the-mill US standard and our flat in Donetsk is several notches above run of the mill Ukrainian. HERE we are middle class...there we are UPPER middle class. Our home here really has little to offer over the flat in Donetsk except more relaible hot water. If we lived there full time I would hang our own water heater from the ceiling in the bathroom like many other people do.

Ditto the being busy in life, but we are both using up 2+ hours a day for driving, not to mention hours we spend waiting someplace, killing time so to speak, to pick up our son after some school activity. There is not enough time to drive home and return to get him, not enough time to go out and really enjoy a nice dinner, so we do a little shopping or something. Seems for us the rural island life is difficult with a functioning family. It was a great place for a bachelor that likes to go fishing every day. LOL And Alla loves swimming every day in the summer, but few places in the city are but a short walk from a beach, so that is not an issue, it is a big lake and seems to be "everywhere" in equal abundance.

We are considering a move to "the city" where we will have good public transportation and better access to social life. Our friends, also buisy are often reluctant to come to our place, again because of the drive involved, unless it is a weekend. So oddly enough, in many ways, we find life more difficult in the USA than in Ukraine.

The USA is a great place, don;t get me wrong, but it is not the only place in the world and MOST people in the world don't live here and MOST of them don't want to (which may come as a surprise to some Americans ) I also lived in canada and UK and both were very nice and interesting places.

I will admit that no one accomodates my skeet shooting like America though!!!!

[Brad and Vika 129]

The USA is a great place, don;t get me wrong, but it is not the only place in the world and MOST people in the world don't live here and MOST of them don't want to (which may come as a surprise to some Americans ) I also lived in canada and UK and both were very nice and interesting places.

We have talked and posted about this bit many times. Still surprises me that some USCs don't see it. Most on VJ are pretty accepting though.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We have talked and posted about this bit many times. Still surprises me that some USCs don't see it. Most on VJ are pretty accepting though.

Yes, true, VJers tend to be a bit better traveled than the average American who saved up and took a bus tour of Munich and the Glockenspeil all in three days!

My brother, a physician, did a tour with "Doctors Without Borders" in Africa and most of those people had no interest in coming to the USA!!!! I admit to a bit of enbarassment when Americans say something like "Oh, you are from Ukraine...yeah, Pretty bad over there, eh?" I want to say "Yeah, dumb@ss, thats why we still listen to music they composed 300 years ago! If they were ANY good at all they would have written something new like Lady GaGa or something!"

The best one "Oh and is your husband a refugee from Russia also?" Da! Yob tvoyu maht!

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Nasturtium 500]

We have talked and posted about this bit many times. Still surprises me that some USCs don't see it. Most on VJ are pretty accepting though.

I think that's because by nature, we have gone out and reached out to another culture-- so we're probably a very skewed demographic of Americans as well as our SOs

People always think i am kind of nuts for wanting to go home with my husband.. but he didn't ever really want to live here-- it was a means to an end for both of us. Since I was very young I had thought I would go back to either the UK/Scotland, France, or Germany... i took the time to learn the latter two languages as part of my possible process (and my medival studies stuff, two birds and all). I always loved the desert and SoCal too though.. lots of time there growing up. So, when I visited Jordan in my husband's area I was in love immediately. He's in the NW corner which is wettest part of their country and the mildest for climate. He lives in a SoCal (Riverside county to be specific) copy of a climate. Rainfall is a bit higher in his area, but not much. Everything is perfect. What matters is the aforementioned finances. Cost of living there is the same as here but with that added bonus of locals usually only making a couple hundred a month. So, you need to make money here and then bring it there and build what you want. Building is cheaper at least, so that part we do have an advantage on... and they have everything we have-- it's just that most people cannot either afford it or do not have the desire to get it (such as a dryer.. they have them but no one cares).

Going over there as an independant person financially means it's wonderful. You can live in the best climate and with all your favorite things. For me, land and home mean 99% of my happiness; social issues only account for 1%. My personality works for that.

I would think this is the same for you RUBers. As long as you like the basic area, have the means, and either don't care about being part of a social structure, can fully integrate, or are willing to attempt to integrate, things are fine.

[Cixelsyd 1]

No I don't love my fiance.

I don't even have a fiance, I'm pretty sure my wife wouldn't approve.

But I suppose that doesn't add to this profound topic.

Next weeks topic maybe:

"Every time you cause an RFE a kitten dies" ??

[Brad and Vika 129]

The best one "Oh and is your husband a refugee from Russia also?" Da! Yob tvoyu maht!

Language

I think that's because by nature, we have gone out and reached out to another culture-- so we're probably a very skewed demographic of Americans as well as our SOs

People always think i am kind of nuts for wanting to go home with my husband.. but he didn't ever really want to live here-- it was a means to an end for both of us. Since I was very young I had thought I would go back to either the UK/Scotland, France, or Germany... i took the time to learn the latter two languages as part of my possible process (and my medival studies stuff, two birds and all). I always loved the desert and SoCal too though.. lots of time there growing up. So, when I visited Jordan in my husband's area I was in love immediately. He's in the NW corner which is wettest part of their country and the mildest for climate. He lives in a SoCal (Riverside county to be specific) copy of a climate. Rainfall is a bit higher in his area, but not much. Everything is perfect. What matters is the aforementioned finances. Cost of living there is the same as here but with that added bonus of locals usually only making a couple hundred a month. So, you need to make money here and then bring it there and build what you want. Building is cheaper at least, so that part we do have an advantage on... and they have everything we have-- it's just that most people cannot either afford it or do not have the desire to get it (such as a dryer.. they have them but no one cares).

Going over there as an independant person financially means it's wonderful. You can live in the best climate and with all your favorite things. For me, land and home mean 99% of my happiness; social issues only account for 1%. My personality works for that.

I would think this is the same for you RUBers. As long as you like the basic area, have the means, and either don't care about being part of a social structure, can fully integrate, or are willing to attempt to integrate, things are fine.

Seems like lots of us have the same pipe dream/plan, but you are doing something about it. I resent being called a RUBber by the way.

[jimnlena 8]

Without a doubt!! I love the Ukraine and she has a proper house paid for and waiting for us if need be!!

[AKguy 1]

I resent being called a RUBber by the way.

At least it's not your mom calling you the broken rubber... Good ol mom.

[Brad and Vika 129]

At least it's not your mom calling you the broken rubber... Good ol mom.

Ewwww! Sounds like the voice of experience

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Language

Seems like lots of us have the same pipe dream/plan, but you are doing something about it. I resent being called a RUBber by the way.

How about it being said you have a "RUBer" wife???????

Hey, I was working construction...In Odessa...with lots of Maldovans...what kind of language do you expect?? Just do defend Alla's honor, I will note she HATES when I do that...and then smile at people.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Gary and Alla