Do you truly love your fiancé???

[Brad and Vika 129]

You didn't use Wikipedia as a source Brad, so you are wrong.

Oh wait...is this Friday?

Never mind. Carry on, you're good.

Like any seasoned researcher, I of couse tried wikipedia first. Sometimes you have to go deeper, to more spiritual sources for the most complex and difficult philosophical questions. Like Oprah.

Edited April 24, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[visaveteran 1]

And ten seconds of google SAYS

Finance in top ten reasons for divorce

edubook.com top ten reasons for divorce - finance

Top ten reasons for divorce - money

Divorce top ten reasons - money

I would have been safe had I said, not in the top five.

[SMR 368]

Everybody uses Uncle Sam...whether its driving down an interstate or enjoying a national park. And I'm sure you make sure you get all your tax deductions when you do your federal taxes. Nobody lives in the USA without the gifts of "Uncle Sam." Medicare and Social Security...and health care now are other examples. Your kids schools get government money as well. So, Mr. Independent, you're in line with the rest of us. And your wife lives in the USA from the courtesy and permission of your good Uncle Sam.

Okay, there are some parts of this post that are so ridiculous that I have to respond. Interstates and national parks are reasonable. Except that the only interstate within useful range of my house is a toll road anyways. Why am I paying twice? And the last time I visited a national park it cost me $25 just to drive through.

Tax deductions are not a gift from Uncle Sam. I don't know whether the fact that you suggest it is hilarious or infuriating. It's your money to begin with. A tax deduction just means US is taking less of it (yeah, some people have negative income tax liability but even then they are paying other taxes and I don't think that applies to most of us).

Medicare and SS are both things that every American pays for and pays well over market value for them. It's not a gift. Health care isn't free, and just got more expensive for the vast majority of Americans that had it already.

Schools are a good point for a lot of people although if I remember right, Brad doesn't have any kids in school here. However, in America we are paying more for lower quality schools than most first world countries. It's not like we're getting a bargain from Uncle Sam.

The last part of this is the most absurd. Uncle Sam did nothing to help any of our wives (or husbands) immigrate to the US. He was a stick in the mud that put up random ridiculous hoops for us to jump through so that he wouldn't destroy the lives of our SO's when they came here. He didn't make any arrangements to get things in order so they could leave, didn't help with travel, didn't help get things ready for anyone to come, and didn't take care of anyone after they came. Uncle Sam "helped" our wives come here in much the same way Al Capone "protected" the people of Chicago. He created a threat and then created a plan to help us avoid said threat.

[visaveteran 1]

Okay, there are some parts of this post that are so ridiculous that I have to respond. Interstates and national parks are reasonable. Except that the only interstate within useful range of my house is a toll road anyways. Why am I paying twice? And the last time I visited a national park it cost me $25 just to drive through.

Tax deductions are not a gift from Uncle Sam. I don't know whether the fact that you suggest it is hilarious or infuriating. It's your money to begin with. A tax deduction just means US is taking less of it (yeah, some people have negative income tax liability but even then they are paying other taxes and I don't think that applies to most of us).

Medicare and SS are both things that every American pays for and pays well over market value for them. It's not a gift. Health care isn't free, and just got more expensive for the vast majority of Americans that had it already.

Schools are a good point for a lot of people although if I remember right, Brad doesn't have any kids in school here. However, in America we are paying more for lower quality schools than most first world countries. It's not like we're getting a bargain from Uncle Sam.

The last part of this is the most absurd. Uncle Sam did nothing to help any of our wives (or husbands) immigrate to the US. He was a stick in the mud that put up random ridiculous hoops for us to jump through so that he wouldn't destroy the lives of our SO's when they came here. He didn't make any arrangements to get things in order so they could leave, didn't help with travel, didn't help get things ready for anyone to come, and didn't take care of anyone after they came. Uncle Sam "helped" our wives come here in much the same way Al Capone "protected" the people of Chicago. He created a threat and then created a plan to help us avoid said threat.

Without Uncle Sam, there would be no Medicare, Medicaid and SS. That's the bottom line. Some pay and some don't but those monies are often spent out on one single illness treated. Medicare is a bargain and so is SS, especially now that people live far longer. All these programs are subsidized.

Paying taxes is required but at least Uncle Sam does so considering benevolent issues as number of dependents, medical costs, home costs, environmental costs, education, etc. This is why 40% of the people pay no taxes. Other countries tax blindly.

Immigration is the responsibility of the federal government. It is run in a manner that prevents bad people from entering the country. This is for the vast majority of the population a good thing. The few of us who choose to marry a foreign national have to deal with the rules designed for the welfare of the masses. Deal with it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Everybody uses Uncle Sam...whether its driving down an interstate or enjoying a national park. And I'm sure you make sure you get all your tax deductions when you do your federal taxes. Nobody lives in the USA without the gifts of "Uncle Sam." Medicare and Social Security...and health care now are other examples. Your kids schools get government money as well. So, Mr. Independent, you're in line with the rest of us. And your wife lives in the USA from the courtesy and permission of your good Uncle Sam.

As for your comment about finances being the number one cause of divorce, you're wrong...again. Money isn't even in the top ten reasons. You just pulled it out of your azz. How about at least some fact checking.

I could survive in Zimbabwe but who would want to? I might say the same for the radioactive, polluted and over-priced Ukraine. I survived Vietnam, I can survive anywhere. I live in the best place on the planet...the USA. No need to step downwards.

Your post makes a lot of assumptions. mostly wrong, and NO sense. Alla attends a prvate college, no money from US. Sergey attends Moscow Physical Tenchnical Insitute. No money from US. Our local school receives 6% of its budget from the US, but of course that comes from us also, so ONE person in a family of 4 receives 6% of his education from the US. And that is confiscated from my earnings and then sent back to Vermont. Woo hoo!! Point for VV. I pay for the interstates I use and the ones other people use. 47% of people in the US do not pay tax. I do. Yes, I take all my deductions, but I HAVE taxes to deduct from. Which means I pay MY share and someone else's so ####### off!

I am not the one that said finances are important, take that up with someone else that did. We have no financial troubles so I wouldn't know anyway and wouldn't care.

You survived Viet nam being fed by Uncle Sam. Go make a living in a country where you are not a native by marketing your skills to a private enterprise that pays for results, and fires people that don't produce something more valuable than what they are paid...then go to another non-native country and do it again, and again, then come back to the US and build a home where you choose to live and make a market for yourself there. In other words, do what you want, live where you want and make your own market for your skills for about 20 years, retire early...then get back to me.

You were a soldier, thank you for your service. You were sent where someone told you to go, they paid the freight there and back and fed you and clothed you and gave you a place to sleep. You came back and lived where your job is because how would you live anywhere else, instead of making a job for yourself where you wanted to live. I won't need medicare or SS and have no plans for either in the future, nor do I need them now (or use them now) If I somehow get them after paying for them for 40 + years, I will be pleased. If I still smoked, (I quit smoking as a tax protest )SS would probably cover my cigarette money, sorry but I like to write checks for sports cars and houses, major surgery, and such and SS won't let me do that so I kinda cut them out of the equation long ago.

Again, the question was, "Would you live in your fiancee's country?" My answer was, and is, YES. I can, I did, and I still do for a portion of the year. I did not say it was better than the US, never have I said that. Moot point. I CAN do it, I HAVE done it, I CAN do it again anytime I like and come back anytime I like. Get over it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Without Uncle Sam, there would be no Medicare, Medicaid and SS. That's the bottom line. Some pay and some don't but those monies are often spent out on one single illness treated. Medicare is a bargain and so is SS, especially now that people live far longer. All these programs are subsidized.

Paying taxes is required but at least Uncle Sam does so considering benevolent issues as number of dependents, medical costs, home costs, environmental costs, education, etc. This is why 40% of the people pay no taxes. Other countries tax blindly.

Immigration is the responsibility of the federal government. It is run in a manner that prevents bad people from entering the country. This is for the vast majority of the population a good thing. The few of us who choose to marry a foreign national have to deal with the rules designed for the welfare of the masses. Deal with it.

Medicare and SS are Ponzi schemes and punishment for people that are mathmatically challenged. I need nor want either. The people running it should be jailed along with Bernie Madoff.

Uncle sam is not benevelonent and paying income is not required. It is desired by a pond3rous government to control people's lives. A sales tax would provide needed funds and keep the government out of our business so it will never happen. 47% people pay no tax because the government wants it that way. When 50%+ pay no tax, our freedom will have been effectively bought. when 51% of the people can vote to take money from the other 49% all semblance of a free country is ended and the government will have the ultimate power. Government does it to create a "dependent class" and when they have more thn 50% of the people dependent...say hello to the USSA.

Marrying a foreign person is our right, there is no provision for the government to prevent us from marrying a foreign person, nor any attempt to. It is the government's responsibility to insure that some lonely heart American woman doesn't mmarry Osama Bin Laden (because she liberated herself out of American men who now marry Russian women) and allow her to bring him here and endanger ME. Other than that, there is no mechanism or desire to prevent me from having my Ukrainian wife here with me. I am saying it is not by Uncle Sam's "good graces" I have my wife here. Uncle Sam has no good graces, but he has no mechanism to deny Alla who is not a threat to you or anyone else. My wife is here because she is my wife and there is no reason for her not to be here...simple as that.

[SMR 368]

Without Uncle Sam, there would be no Medicare, Medicaid and SS. That's the bottom line. Some pay and some don't but those monies are often spent out on one single illness treated. Medicare is a bargain and so is SS, especially now that people live far longer. All these programs are subsidized.

Medicare and SS are bad ideas poorly implemented. For the amount of money I pay into them, I could get something that does the same job much better in the private sector. An amount of money greater than 12% of my annual salary is paid into SS. Investing that money in even a low interest, low risk account would do several times better than SS.

For medicare, yes, I may need to start saving now to pay for medical care when I'm old. But if I were to similarly invest medicare taxes I would be able to pay for medical care on the private market when I retire with some left over.

I don't get medicaid.

Paying taxes is required but at least Uncle Sam does so considering benevolent issues as number of dependents, medical costs, home costs, environmental costs, education, etc. This is why 40% of the people pay no taxes. Other countries tax blindly.

Well, going into the preferability of different tax schemes would bring us off on a tangent, but all the same, Uncle Sam is not giving me something by taxing me, so the point about tax deductions is silly.

Immigration is the responsibility of the federal government. It is run in a manner that prevents bad people from entering the country. This is for the vast majority of the population a good thing. The few of us who choose to marry a foreign national have to deal with the rules designed for the welfare of the masses. Deal with it.

A small part of immigration regulation is about national security. If that was all it was, the process would be a lot simpler. For an eastern European woman, most likely they run a simple background check on the name and check the police certificate. Sure, if you're marrying Ahmed Muhammad Hussein, the background check may be a little more involved (but that's done in AP and I didn't experience that). However, the majority of the roadblocks are put in place to prevent competition for jobs and prevent people from coming and using entitlement programs.

Whether or not it should be my problem to deal with the government bureaucracy surrounding marrying a foreign national is a complicated debate, like taxes. However, your original argument, that the government somehow helped me in the immigration progress, is bogus. The government, in fact, inconvenienced me. Your response is that they were justified in doing so. That may or may not be true. But you can't deny the inconvenience.

[Terry&Tigger 4]

Yes I am brave enough for that, I did it. I lived in Ukraine as Ukrainians do, shopped the same markets, rode the same busses and trolleys, worked a full time job in Ukraine, lived in an apartment in Ukraine full of Ukrainians (imagine that!), ate the food, and generally lived exactly like Ukrainians in the same neighborhood I lived in. Did I live like a poor Ukrainian farmer in a tiny village? NO!!! I don't do that here, wouldn't do it there and such a lifestyle is not acceptbale to me or my wife who did not live that way before she met me (you thought she was looking to degrade her lifestyle, perhaps?)quote]

Gary, really, I did not mean you personally, when I asked if someone was brave enough to change his life completely and go start it all over in a foreign country. It's just that the question that in general required a 'yes' or 'no' answer and a personal opinion oh why yes or no, has been developed into a pointless and furious political battle. Me and my USC fiance both enjoy reading your posts immensely and never questioned your sincerity. visa veteran got you too wound up on this thread I guess ...Relax... breathe...

[Terry&Tigger 4]

Gary, really, I did not mean you personally, when I asked if someone was brave enough to change his life completely and go start it all over in a foreign country. It's just that the question that in general required a 'yes' or 'no' answer and a personal opinion on why yes or why no, has somehow developed into a pointless and furious political battle. Me and my USC fiancé both enjoy reading your posts immensely and never questioned your sincerity. visa veteran got you too wound up on this thread I guess ...Relax... breathe...

Edited April 27, 2010 by Terry&Tigger

[baron555 934]

She's only been here 5 months but Alla says that she has a much "Happier Movie" here than her happy movie life she carved for herself in Russia. She loves living here but doesn't understand why the medical costs so much and other stuff but she does "understand the system". She still loves Russia and her family and friends. Most of all she loves me. And I love her. So maybe that is the deciding factor??!!!

I am sure that if our lives required us to live somewhere else, we both would mutually agree to that and do our best, together.

If from the very beginning of the start of our relationship she was insistent on not leaving Russia and wanted me to move, then we are sure we both would never have pursued the relationship. Our little family is quite happy together here and we are all very busy and there is very little homesickness; she maintains constant communication via emails, photos, phone calls, and Skype calls with friends and family.

[Brad and Vika 129]

She's only been here 5 months but Alla says that she has a much "Happier Movie" here than her happy movie life she carved for herself in Russia. She loves living here but doesn't understand why the medical costs so much and other stuff but she does "understand the system". She still loves Russia and her family and friends. Most of all she loves me. And I love her. So maybe that is the deciding factor??!!!

I am sure that if our lives required us to live somewhere else, we both would mutually agree to that and do our best, together.

If from the very beginning of the start of our relationship she was insistent on not leaving Russia and wanted me to move, then we are sure we both would never have pursued the relationship. Our little family is quite happy together here and we are all very busy and there is very little homesickness; she maintains constant communication via emails, photos, phone calls, and Skype calls with friends and family.

I have much the same situation - without the kids. Vika really likes life here, although at times she very much misses Ukraine and her relatives and friends there. Occasionally her mood turns just seeing a building or some landscape that reminds her of Ukraine. Busy is better.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

She's only been here 5 months but Alla says that she has a much "Happier Movie" here than her happy movie life she carved for herself in Russia. She loves living here but doesn't understand why the medical costs so much and other stuff but she does "understand the system". She still loves Russia and her family and friends. Most of all she loves me. And I love her. So maybe that is the deciding factor??!!!

I am sure that if our lives required us to live somewhere else, we both would mutually agree to that and do our best, together.

If from the very beginning of the start of our relationship she was insistent on not leaving Russia and wanted me to move, then we are sure we both would never have pursued the relationship. Our little family is quite happy together here and we are all very busy and there is very little homesickness; she maintains constant communication via emails, photos, phone calls, and Skype calls with friends and family.

Glad to hear she is doing so well, Phil.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have much the same situation - without the kids. Vika really likes life here, although at times she very much misses Ukraine and her relatives and friends there. Occasionally her mood turns just seeing a building or some landscape that reminds her of Ukraine. Busy is better.

I think that after some time, Alla is considering this more her "home". I know she seems much happier in our new place which is very close to her school and she is not doing so much driving. Funny, she couldn't wait to learn to drive when she got here, wanted to drive everywhere when she first started learning and now wants to minimize it. She also now has a bigger house, a "machine to wash dishes" and is staying busy with all her shopping for projects to improve it, she definitely fell into the "DIY home improvement" (actually the "have the husband DIY") thing and refers to many of her shopping trips as "I am going homeowning" She is filling the garage (my side of the garage) with ceramic tile, hardwood flooring, doors, cans of paint, etc. She wants to have penty of materials on hand for when she goes to Ukraine so I won't be bored.

She still enjoys going to Ukraine, of course, and is getting ready for the summer excursion, the summer "panic", but rarely gets weepy about it anymore

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Gary, really, I did not mean you personally, when I asked if someone was brave enough to change his life completely and go start it all over in a foreign country. It's just that the question that in general required a 'yes' or 'no' answer and a personal opinion on why yes or why no, has somehow developed into a pointless and furious political battle. Me and my USC fiancé both enjoy reading your posts immensely and never questioned your sincerity. visa veteran got you too wound up on this thread I guess ...Relax... breathe...

My writing may indicate that I am more "wound up" than I really am. It is all good fun.

Good luck to you and your fiance. There really is nothing political about it and nothing to be ashamced of in enjoying another country immensely. I think many people make too much of the politics that simply doesn;t exist for the vast majority of people. Living in Ukraine was an adventure of a lifetime, MUCH more interesting than living in UK or Canada (sorry folks, but Ukraine just has SO much more "texture")

I recently bought our summer travel tickets from the Aerosvit website and their new slogan?

"If you feel like something is missing in your life...Come to Ukraine, maybe you will find it!" Depends on what is missing I suppose.

[Brad and Vika 129]

She still enjoys going to Ukraine, of course, and is getting ready for the summer excursion, the summer "panic", but rarely gets weepy about it anymore

Vika still gets the weepys, but she also feels like she "has two homes now". I had a very interesting skype conversation with MIL this morning, where she and FIL (in absentia) scolded Vika because they want grandkids. More drama to follow no doubt - but the point is my wife was considerably less nostalgic immediatel after the call.