Do you truly love your fiancé???

[Martyshk 137]

Come on down y'all - but not Derby week.

Yeah..... no..... Not ever coming to KY, thank you

[SandT 0]

I've noticed the names I'm familiar with here are more expensive there. But it's stuff I wouldn't like anyway.

I have found a bunch of brands with English names I've never heard of that I do like though and they're way cheaper.

I'll take a look next time, it's always interesting to see what is sold where, for how much..to me, at least.

T doesn't have a 'designer clothes collection,' but it's interesting/strange to see some locals pay that kind of cash, when it's 2-4 weeks pay for many of them.

And hopefully that is just enough time for me to actually clean this place.

:rofl:

Me too.

She keeps telling me to not worry about it, wants to help, but what I wouldn't give for one very large, lockable, climate controlled closet, or something. The only reason for the lock is to avoid future help, and maybe to stop ME from opening it again, too.

[SandT 0]

I can give you Alla's opinion FWIW. Bread in the USA is like glue, unless you find a fresh bakery, if it is in a plastic bag...forget it. Fruits here are far superior here, in her opinion and far more selection. She was terribly confused by all the varieties of apples and has finally figured out which are "sweet" and which are "sour". (Apples are big here, so maybe we have more variety than you do) but she truly enjoys the fruit. We go through, no kidding, a BUSHEL basket FULL of fruit each week. Apples, oranges, pears, bananas, plums, tangerines. We buy enough to fill the bushel basket in the kitchen each week and each week we are down to nothing when we go shopping. Alla and the boys each fruit like it is candy (and don;t eat candy, chips, etc.) Alla will eat 4-5 pieces of fruit each dsay while she is at school and her luch is basically a sandwich, 3 pieces of fruit and a piece of cheese. She will eat another 2-3 pieces at home in the evening. Vegetables are basically the same, but "too clean". There should be dirt on potatoes and carrots. Meat here is better and bigger variety IF it is organic, we buy from a local meat butcher that slaughters local animals.

Alla says the same as you about milk. She will actually DRINK sour "real milk" but says "factory milk" is horrible. Won't buy it or drink it. We buy milk from a neighbors farm, fresh off the cow. I actually go up to the barn, fill our 1 gal. pitcher off the holding tank and leave him $4 on the table. We buy eggs from there also. He has an "egg stand" at the road and puts out fresh eggs each day, $3 per dozen. You take what you want and leave the money in the coffee can. Next to the road. No one steals the money, it is Vermont, not Philadelphia. We don't know a damn thing about "brotherly love" but we don't steal what other people work for.

Anything in a can or box is not allowed in this house. Some things in glass jars are OK. Pickles, mayonaise. "Terrible Coca Cola" is not allowed, but I am free to drink or eat anything I want outside the house. She does not want it around to "tempt the children". She prefers to know the chicken that lays her eggs, the cow that gives her milk and the animals she eats, personaly, before eating them.

I may have it a little easier with respect to what is 'acceptable' to her diet, and her exposure to US and EU foods, but a lot is still similar. We definitely go through a LOT of fruit..when I'm not there, I believe the majority of her diet is fruit, bread and cheese, yogurt or cottage cheese, and an occasional meal with her Mom. Is Alla ok with our 'chemical fruits,' or organics only? (It is kind of strange to see an orange last for a month..) Oh yes, and chocolates! No chocolates for Alla, or does that get the special exemption rule as a primary food group, thus not 'sweets' or candy?

That's neat on the 'personal farmers market.' There are a few farms nearby here as well, that may turn into a good plan, although I never thought beyond strawberries from them in the past.

Have any of you resorted to some of the online Russian or European food stores, like russianfoods.com ? I've got a single European grocery store in the area, but have yet to confirm what they do or don't have on hand..

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I may have it a little easier with respect to what is 'acceptable' to her diet, and her exposure to US and EU foods, but a lot is still similar. We definitely go through a LOT of fruit..when I'm not there, I believe the majority of her diet is fruit, bread and cheese, yogurt or cottage cheese, and an occasional meal with her Mom. Is Alla ok with our 'chemical fruits,' or organics only? (It is kind of strange to see an orange last for a month..) Oh yes, and chocolates! No chocolates for Alla, or does that get the special exemption rule as a primary food group, thus not 'sweets' or candy?

That's neat on the 'personal farmers market.' There are a few farms nearby here as well, that may turn into a good plan, although I never thought beyond strawberries from them in the past.

Have any of you resorted to some of the online Russian or European food stores, like russianfoods.com ? I've got a single European grocery store in the area, but have yet to confirm what they do or don't have on hand..

Alla loves Chocolate. Lake Champlain Chocolate (local factory) is her favorite. She will eat "chemical fruit" Her opinion of this is that it is all organic if you wash it...and she does. May or may not be true. Her main objection is to "prepared food", she swears farm milk is better but to me it tastes the same (holstein cows) We were taking some milk from Jersey cows, 6% butterfat, but she said it was too sweet. To me, fresh milk and store bought whole milk tastes the same...what do I know?

There is a "Russian Store" in Burlington and that is where she buys her stinky fish. It is actually Lake Champlain fish prepared by a Russian woman tht owns the store and is plenty stinky. Oh, yes, other fish. Commercial fishing for certain species is legal on Lake Champlain and the local stores sell lake caught perch, whitefish. In the winter I go out on the ice into the "fishing villages" and buy direct from the fishermen (I WILL NOT go ice fishing) Once the ice melts I catch my own. Atlantic salmon are running right now. Spring salmon, small but plentiful.

Edited April 8, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

The US WAS invaded...and forced to speak English. What's the point?

Eastern Ukraine, much of it, was basically uninhabitable and unproductive. The USSR in eastern Ukraine, and many other areas, developed resources and basically built large cities to support them, Donetsk is an excellent example. These areas were vacant, basically. Many of the people that moved in (most) were ehtnic Russians, as is my wife and her family and they speak Russian, big surprise. So what is the problem with a free modern society recognizing their are two languages? Seems to work in Canada. Or maybe there should be NO official language, like here. Why is it OK for people in Western Ukraine to do what you decry as terrible when it was done to them? The USSR forced a lot of things omn many people, that was wrong. The USSR killed and starved people, true. So what? So now a free Ukraine should do the same to some of its citizens? Hogwash. The Russain/Ukrainian language line is more or less diagonal from SW to NE. Odessa, where I lived. is largely Russian speaking, perhaps 70%+, though it is hardly "east Ukraine"

The areas you tell me to ask about, Crimea (Tartars) and Cossacks (central and east Ukraine) are the areas speaking Russian, there are a lot of decendents of Cossacks in Donetsk. There were both "Red" and "White" Cossacks and if you think the "Whites" didn't pull off some horrible atrocities, you are simply uninformed. But that was thewn and this is now. We, in the US, do not forcibly change peoples names, we do not force people named "Roberto" to be called Robert. We do not arbitrarily change a persons name on their passport from "Sean" to "John". Or from Juan to John. This is preposterous. we do not refuse service to people in Vermont because they speak Spanish, you would not be refused service in southern Texas or Arizona for speaking English.

If you ask me, Ukraine spends far too much time trying to stamp out the past, as if it didn't exist, and too much money also. Ukraine was part of the USSR, like it or not. It was, at times, part of Imperial Russia. This is nothing to be ashamed of, it just is. Just as parts of our country were part of Mexico, Spain, France, Britian. What benefit would it be to remove all the French street names in New Orleans? Maybe change the Spanish names of hundreds of cities and towns. No more "San Antonio", by God, it MUST be "St. Anthony" No more "Windsor" Vermont. No more Portsmith, New Hamphire...for that matter, NO MORE NEW HAMPSHIRE! "Hampshire" will do fine, thank you. What the HECK would we call "Illinois" French for the native Illini Indian? (same as Quebecois or Vermontois) OMG! "Vermont" is French vernacular for "Green Mountain" #######!!!!! We have to change that! OMG Vermont was part of France!

This whole thing is the most ridiculous BS I ever witnessed and brought on by a bought and paid for "Orange Revolution" (you DO know it was bought and paid for, correct?)

Over 5,000,000 Ukrainians were starved to death on orders from the Kremlin. Now throw in the ones who were deported and or butchered. Your comparing that to teaching a people their own country's language ? Ukraine is in the midst of turning back the forced Russification done to it over the years. Ukraine has ridden a bumpy road since the downfall of the SU, but at least in Ukraine the outcome of the presidential elections isn't predetermined unlike in Russia. Hopefully Ukraine get's it's act together, and later on membership in the EU and maybe even NATO. Membership in the EU and NATO will stop the Russian bear in it's tracks and keep any idea's of Kremlin Derzhava when it looks west to it's Rus neighbors ...Belarus and Ukraine.

[eekee 182]

Ukraine in NATO and the EU? I'll believe it when I see it.

Forced Ukrainization does not undo forced Russification. And in the early Soviet years, they actually instutited a policy of "Ukrainization."

[eekee 182]

VV, your post was too long so I'm not going to quote it, but there are two doors because of insulation, not because of thieves. My outer door isn't even iron; it's wood, and the inner door doesn't even have a lock. I've lived in four different apartments in Russia, and never had an issue.

Things like customer service, etc. aren't necessarily "bad," just different. There is a different mentality. For instance, I took a test in a Russian grammar/lexicon recently. I got all of the questions about the proper way to write a letter to your boss wrong. Why? Because I chose all of the super-polite ways to write things, like in English (i.e., Я хотела бы спросить...). In Russian, you don't want to waste your boss's time, or appear like you're kissing his @$$. So you write it in as simple and clear like as possible. Just because someone's not smiling or asking you about your day (like even Americans give a $#!t!) doesn't make it "bad" service. For instance, I need to get my laptop fixed, but I lost my check and service agreement. So I went to the store, and the manager remembered me from when I went to ask about where I can get my laptop serviced 2 or 3 weeks ago, and spent 45 minutes doing all the paperwork to get me a new copy and even gave me her personal cell phone number so I can call and inquire about when it's ready. Did she try to act like my new best friend? No. Am I actually relieved to not have to chat about how my day is going when I really just want to get my laptop fixed? Yes.

You can always find faults if you look for them. Sure, there are lots of people here who have spent very little time in Russia and/or lived on salaries that are perhaps 10x the average salary in fancy Euro-remont apartments paid for by their employers. But that's not true of everyone. Do bad things happen in Russia? Yes. Do bad things happen in America? Yes.

Also, I've met more people with Russian mob connections in America than in Russia.

Perhaps your wife specifically wanted to leave Russia. But I know plenty of people who have been to other countries and would rather stay in Russia.

[SMR 368]

This is the kind of shotgun generalizations that mocks truth telling. How do you know how all the millions of Russians feel about their country? Did you do a survey? How do you know the motivation of Russian women? Did you give them a polygraph? This is how many of you Russo-centric hotshots speak again and again. You're all experts on Russia merely because you happened to find someone who'd tolerate you...so now Mother Russia is your second home. Bull. Most of you have not lived in Russia long enough to see beyond your one or two week tourist fling in some city...probably Moscow...the most expensive city with the worst service.

Yet you all know all about the Russian people and just how wonderful and misunderstood they are. Again, Bull.

So all the rhetoric and hot air on the forum simply underscores how clueless and naive many of you are. Romantic notions and fairy tales don't reveal the truth about Russia or its people. I have seen a lot of things I don't like and have spoken of these from my perspective...and that's when all you jokers jump up and down and act like I burned the Russian flag. If Russia was such a great place, with great people, why do the women marry Americans? Most of you will say it had nothing to do with mail order brides or the internet or the women wanting to get out of Russia, or because they can't find a decent Russian man. No, you all somehow met your wife at a bus station or city park or whatever. It was just random. Bull.

Many of you could not cut it here so you went shopping in Russia. Own it and knock off all the high and mighty ####### about Russia as paradise. It's a nasty, dirty, polluted, dangerous place. My wife was threatened by the local mafia when she opened her business and knows the crooked police system all to well. She knows a woman whose husband had her killed and he got away with it. There is no such thing as wife beating in Russia. The police would never respond to a call for help from a wife. The thievery is so bad that people get solid iron doors over their regular door. Drunks inhabit the entrances and staircases of even fairly nice apartment buildings. You smell urine in all the elevators. Most public bathrooms are far worse than your average Texaco gas station.

The portions of food you get in restaurants is smaller than the average American appetizer. People smoke like chimneys anywhere they wish. If you don't continue buy something, you are asked to leave. It's a rude and offensive culture, at least out in the world of Russian commerce.

So, stop telling me about how the Russia people feel or how they live. You all don't have a clue. Even if you lived there for while, you live there with money and as an American. You will be treated accordingly. I spent a combined 6 months in Russia and I will not speak for all Russians...it's a big country with diverse races and subcultures. I formed my own limited views and opinions...some influenced by my wife and others from Russia. But I'm no expert.

To be honest, a lot of the things you just mentioned are why I like it. A lot of the other things you said are just not true. I have to ask if you even speak Russian. I think it's a critical question since I have seen many Americans who speak Russian poorly or not at all and I have to say that an awful lot gets lost in translation.

I'm not going to bother defending how I met my wife since your cynicism would make such an effort pointless. As eekee pointed out, you simply don't understand Russian service. In terms of restaurants, you're going to the wrong ones. In terms of time spent in Russia, I was there for two years and lived on an amount of money comparable to the average Russian salary.

The problem I see with your perspective is twofold. You fail to understand Russia and its culture and judge it based on your own cultural biases. That on its own is certainly reasonable and if you were consistent with your standards I could understand your analysis and perspective. The ridiculousness of your posting comes when you fail to judge the USA by the same standards.

[visaveteran 1]

To be honest, a lot of the things you just mentioned are why I like it. A lot of the other things you said are just not true. I have to ask if you even speak Russian. I think it's a critical question since I have seen many Americans who speak Russian poorly or not at all and I have to say that an awful lot gets lost in translation.

I'm not going to bother defending how I met my wife since your cynicism would make such an effort pointless. As eekee pointed out, you simply don't understand Russian service. In terms of restaurants, you're going to the wrong ones. In terms of time spent in Russia, I was there for two years and lived on an amount of money comparable to the average Russian salary.

The problem I see with your perspective is twofold. You fail to understand Russia and its culture and judge it based on your own cultural biases. That on its own is certainly reasonable and if you were consistent with your standards I could understand your analysis and perspective. The ridiculousness of your posting comes when you fail to judge the USA by the same standards.

You've offered a reasonable critique so I'll give you a reply. The subject of the forum is RUB, not the USA. It's a backdoor argument to always bash the USA when Russia is being criticized. The appropriate counter to any critique of Russia should be to disprove the accusations, not distract the issue by attacking the USA. The argument needs to be contained within the realm of Russia.

I also think we need to remember the dynamics of Russian women interacting with American men. Russian women, with full intention, seek out American or western men. The reverse is not in play except in rare situations usually involving American women seeking a Russian husband. This is not a two-way street. People from the USA are not moving to Russia to marry Russians. So, to constantly try to bash the USA while lifting up Russia is. IMO. silly. The truth is people from all over the world are trying to get into the USA. That is not the truth with Russia. With Russia, the direction of immigration is exit only. The world has spoken...the USA is the destination for most immigrating people.

As for the Russians behavior and attitude...I'll give you a real life example. I got on a Russian bus (my wife calls them "sex buses" because you're so crammed in close to people that it's like having sex) and there simply was no more room. Yet a woman tried to force her way on and kept pushing and shoving me. When I complained she started yelling at me and kept pushing. The driver did nothing. This is Russia.

I understand Russian service as compared to all major countries in western Europe (never mind the USA) as I've visited them over the years. Russia is the worst value and gives the worst service without question. I speak from experience. I've eaten in St. Petersburg, Moscow, and several smaller cities. They all were disappointing relative to other cities of the world. I can't be that unlucky by random events. You say I don't understand Russian service...well, the understanding is in the actual experience, and mine is not good. If I get a decent meal, it's either expensive without just cause, or very small portions. The atmosphere can be good but the overall value and quality is poor. I also have seen many restaurants come and go quickly. Usually a victim of starting off with good quality and OK service, then slowly cutting back on size and quality.

I speak some Russian but that's unimportant because I always travel with a Russian companion or my wife. My wife describes Russians as not at peace with each other. The product of 80 years of harsh communism where family members turned each other into the KGB for crimes against the state. There is much pettiness and envy. There are few good male role models. Many fear for the new generation of children raised without fathers. Many Russians are atheists and never actually marry...they just live together until someone leaves. Is this the foundation of a great society?

[visaveteran 1]

VV, your post was too long so I'm not going to quote it, but there are two doors because of insulation, not because of thieves. My outer door isn't even iron; it's wood, and the inner door doesn't even have a lock. I've lived in four different apartments in Russia, and never had an issue.

Things like customer service, etc. aren't necessarily "bad," just different. There is a different mentality. For instance, I took a test in a Russian grammar/lexicon recently. I got all of the questions about the proper way to write a letter to your boss wrong. Why? Because I chose all of the super-polite ways to write things, like in English (i.e., Я хотела бы спросить...). In Russian, you don't want to waste your boss's time, or appear like you're kissing his @$. So you write it in as simple and clear like as possible. Just because someone's not smiling or asking you about your day (like even Americans give a $#!t!) doesn't make it "bad" service. For instance, I need to get my laptop fixed, but I lost my check and service agreement. So I went to the store, and the manager remembered me from when I went to ask about where I can get my laptop serviced 2 or 3 weeks ago, and spent 45 minutes doing all the paperwork to get me a new copy and even gave me her personal cell phone number so I can call and inquire about when it's ready. Did she try to act like my new best friend? No. Am I actually relieved to not have to chat about how my day is going when I really just want to get my laptop fixed? Yes.

You can always find faults if you look for them. Sure, there are lots of people here who have spent very little time in Russia and/or lived on salaries that are perhaps 10x the average salary in fancy Euro-remont apartments paid for by their employers. But that's not true of everyone. Do bad things happen in Russia? Yes. Do bad things happen in America? Yes.

Also, I've met more people with Russian mob connections in America than in Russia.

Perhaps your wife specifically wanted to leave Russia. But I know plenty of people who have been to other countries and would rather stay in Russia.

Eekee, let me tell you about insulation which prevents the conduction of heat or cold into an area. Metal is a conductor of heat and cold...so no one would ever spent a lot of money to install a huge metal door for insulation. The purpose is to keep out thieves or intruders. Breaking through wood doors is easy...but thick heavy metal is almost impossible.

As to bad things happening, I think it goes without saying that Russia is far more lawless then the USA. We area nation of laws. Russia is a nation of corruption down to the lowest levels. Once you hit the airport and are accosted by taxi scammers you know you're in Russia. I don't like to live my life constantly om guard for rip-offs and dangerous elements.

As far as America is concerned with courtesy, I think it depends on where you are. Small town America is a place where people still wave to passing strangers and will stop to help someone with a car problem. AS for me, I'd rather offer or receive a passing "how ya doing?" than to walk past someone with cold stares and awkward silence.

Eekee, I won't challenge your statement that "you know plenty of people who have been to other countries and would rather stay in Russia." I do wonder what "plenty" amounts to and how it is you know this information...but I'll give the point. But these kinds of unprovable, rather grand scale comments do little to convince me of anything. I am guilty of this as well. In the interest of making a point, we use exaggeration to drive our point home.

Finally, as I told another poster, if we have a RUB forum we ought to contain the conversation to those three countries. We are not the "USA Forum." To always deflect negative comments of Russia by default attacks on the USA is a diversion, not a counter to the initial argument.

[SMR 368]

You've offered a reasonable critique so I'll give you a reply. The subject of the forum is RUB, not the USA. It's a backdoor argument to always bash the USA when Russia is being criticized. The appropriate counter to any critique of Russia should be to disprove the accusations, not distract the issue by attacking the USA. The argument needs to be contained within the realm of Russia.

I also think we need to remember the dynamics of Russian women interacting with American men. Russian women, with full intention, seek out American or western men. The reverse is not in play except in rare situations usually involving American women seeking a Russian husband. This is not a two-way street. People from the USA are not moving to Russia to marry Russians. So, to constantly try to bash the USA while lifting up Russia is. IMO. silly. The truth is people from all over the world are trying to get into the USA. That is not the truth with Russia. With Russia, the direction of immigration is exit only. The world has spoken...the USA is the destination for most immigrating people.

As for the Russians behavior and attitude...I'll give you a real life example. I got on a Russian bus (my wife calls them "sex buses" because you're so crammed in close to people that it's like having sex) and there simply was no more room. Yet a woman tried to force her way on and kept pushing and shoving me. When I complained she started yelling at me and kept pushing. The driver did nothing. This is Russia.

I understand Russian service as compared to all major countries in western Europe (never mind the USA) as I've visited them over the years. Russia is the worst value and gives the worst service without question. I speak from experience. I've eaten in St. Petersburg, Moscow, and several smaller cities. They all were disappointing relative to other cities of the world. I can't be that unlucky by random events. You say I don't understand Russian service...well, the understanding is in the actual experience, and mine is not good. If I get a decent meal, it's either expensive without just cause, or very small portions. The atmosphere can be good but the overall value and quality is poor. I also have seen many restaurants come and go quickly. Usually a victim of starting off with good quality and OK service, then slowly cutting back on size and quality.

I speak some Russian but that's unimportant because I always travel with a Russian companion or my wife. My wife describes Russians as not at peace with each other. The product of 80 years of harsh communism where family members turned each other into the KGB for crimes against the state. There is much pettiness and envy. There are few good male role models. Many fear for the new generation of children raised without fathers. Many Russians are atheists and never actually marry...they just live together until someone leaves. Is this the foundation of a great society?

I might say that you are a terrible person because you are incapable of unaided flight. There is no way to refute that unless we take into consideration other people and the fact that they can't fly either. Similarly, you might say that Russia is a terrible country because of crime, for example. No one can refute that there is crime in Russia, and if we talk about Russia in a vacuum, there is no real counter-argument. But in order for the presence of crime to meaningfully be considered an indicator of the quality of a country, you have to compare countries, as they all have crime. The same is true not only for crime but really for any factor; all countries have problems. In order for criticism to be meaningful in reality, you have to have a real life example of something better. Thus, you need to talk about Russia as compared to something. Mostly the USA is chosen since it's something that we can all speak to.

Actually, there are lots of people trying to get to Russia. There are many illegal aliens and immigration to Russia is difficult. There certainly aren't as many as trying to get to the USA but the direction that people choose to immigrate is usually based on perception and how things used to be. Rarely do people have the opportunity to really try things out and then decide. Holding up the direction of immigration as the end all in this debate is really rather 1-dimensional.

I've ridden on a lot of buses in Russia. And subways and marshrutki and trains and planes and taxis and everything else. People sometimes start yelling and pushing. But it's definitely more the exception than the rule. Of course, people in the USA never yell at each other, road rage never happens, people never push and shove, and everybody always says "please" and "thank you." The fallacy of restricting this argument to Russia is that if you do, anything bad that ever happened in Russia is proof that Russia is terrible. You need to consider other countries to realize that ####### happens everywhere.

I still think you are going to the wrong restaurants. I have seen many that I like.

I stand by my assertion that a lot gets lost in translation. It seems to me that your wife has a very negative opinion of Russia. That is fine, but I don't think you can claim objectivity if everything was tinted through her translation.

Edited April 8, 2010 by SMR

[neva 0]

Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I checked in, wanted to say our AOS went perfect and we are doing great!!

I am happy to see this forum keeps up with the lively debate but it's too bad that some people have to be so negative towards Russia. Yes it has its problems and my wife will be the first to say this and maybe even Russia is more "dangerous" than our good old US of A. But every country has its problems and I see that it's so unfair to pick on the obvious problems but never agree with the positive parts.

I wanted to say about this,

As to bad things happening, I think it goes without saying that Russia is far more lawless then the USA. We area nation of laws. Russia is a nation of corruption down to the lowest levels. Once you hit the airport and are accosted by taxi scammers you know you're in Russia. I don't like to live my life constantly om guard for rip-offs and dangerous elements.

As far as America is concerned with courtesy, I think it depends on where you are. Small town America is a place where people still wave to passing strangers and will stop to help someone with a car problem. AS for me, I'd rather offer or receive a passing "how ya doing?" than to walk past someone with cold stares and awkward silence.

Finally, as I told another poster, if we have a RUB forum we ought to contain the conversation to those three countries. We are not the "USA Forum." To always deflect negative comments of Russia by default attacks on the USA is a diversion, not a counter to the initial argument.

No offense but if your rule says that it's not allowed to invoke the USA in a negative way, then it is also not fair to use the USA in positive ways. So my solution would be just no rules.

Peace everyone!

[visaveteran 1]

I might say that you are a terrible person because you are incapable of unaided flight. There is no way to refute that unless we take into consideration other people and the fact that they can't fly either. Similarly, you might say that Russia is a terrible country because of crime, for example. No one can refute that there is crime in Russia, and if we talk about Russia in a vacuum, there is no real counter-argument. But in order for the presence of crime to meaningfully be considered an indicator of the quality of a country, you have to compare countries, as they all have crime. The same is true not only for crime but really for any factor; all countries have problems. In order for criticism to be meaningful in reality, you have to have a real life example of something better. Thus, you need to talk about Russia as compared to something. Mostly the USA is chosen since it's something that we can all speak to.

Actually, there are lots of people trying to get to Russia. There are many illegal aliens and immigration to Russia is difficult. There certainly aren't as many as trying to get to the USA but the direction that people choose to immigrate is usually based on perception and how things used to be. Rarely do people have the opportunity to really try things out and then decide. Holding up the direction of immigration as the end all in this debate is really rather 1-dimensional.

I've ridden on a lot of buses in Russia. And subways and marshrutki and trains and planes and taxis and everything else. People sometimes start yelling and pushing. But it's definitely more the exception than the rule. Of course, people in the USA never yell at each other, road rage never happens, people never push and shove, and everybody always says "please" and "thank you." The fallacy of restricting this argument to Russia is that if you do, anything bad that ever happened in Russia is proof that Russia is terrible. You need to consider other countries to realize that ####### happens everywhere.

I still think you are going to the wrong restaurants. I have seen many that I like.

I stand by my assertion that a lot gets lost in translation. It seems to me that your wife has a very negative opinion of Russia. That is fine, but I don't think you can claim objectivity if everything was tinted through her translation.

The people trying to get into Russia are from surrounding former USSR areas like Azebarjan. The poorest of the poor. Many are Russians in FSU areas trying to escape anti-Russian sentiments. I doubt many western Europe or USA folks want into Russia. If you have some hard data I'd like to see it.

The biggest group exiting Russia, historically, and besides women, is Jews who are apparently not treated well in Russia. Perhaps we should ask the Jews why they want to leave? I don't think gays are too happy in Russia either. Any gay parades are crushed by the police. Kind of like certain political groups who oppose Putin.

You argue that in order to assess Russia, we need to compare it to the USA. Why? Are they comparable? How so? We might better compare them to Venezuela or China. You want to compare apples with oranges.

[visaveteran 1]

Hi everyone, it's been a long time since I checked in, wanted to say our AOS went perfect and we are doing great!!

I see that it's so unfair to pick on the obvious problems but never agree with the positive parts.

No offense but if your rule says that it's not allowed to invoke the USA in a negative way, then it is also not fair to use the USA in positive ways. So my solution would be just no rules.

A better question is why American men seem to marry both a wife and a country? Why are men so defensive about a country they know primarily through their wife? OK, marry the woman and move on. I'm bored and tired of hearing all the bull about the great Russia. Everyone talks about living there, yet not one person has done it on the forum. Even super Russo-centric eekee is a student living temporarily in Russia on Daddy's money. How about living off the Russian economy? Then lets here how great it is.

The truth as I see it is once an American man decides to marry a Russian, he somehow has to rethink the awfulness and oppression of Russian society, and revise it in his mind to be just a misunderstood, basically good country. Bull. Look at the sinking of the Russian nuclear sub Kursk. Putin delayeed rescue operations offered by Norway solely to not make Russia look weak and inept. So everyone died. This is Russia. This is how the ego and twisted morality of Russia works. Same same when Chernobyl popped. Russia delayed warnings so more died. Russia dumps atomic waste in the sea polluting sea life. They don't care. It's expedient. This is how the Russian society operates at all levels, Screw the other guy. Screw the environment.

Media people and political opponents are assassinated and there is no justice. Putin does business with our enemies, Iran and Venezuela...yet complains and threatens when we try to put defensive missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. It's always the same nonsense with Russia. I'm tired of it. Now I hear men attempt to paint Russia as a great place to live. Just don't go into the military or grow old because you'll get nothing from Mother Russia. I guess the "Mother" part ends when you get wounded or get old. Half the products sold in Russian stores are fake. There are no standards. No consumer protection. No law suits.

So, all you hotshot Russia lovers...move there. Stop blowing smoke and do it. Oh, wait, you say maybe later on down the road. Right.

[SMR 368]

A better question is why American men seem to marry both a wife and a country? Why are men so defensive about a country they know primarily through their wife? OK, marry the woman and move on. I'm bored and tired of hearing all the bull about the great Russia. Everyone talks about living there, yet not one person has done it on the forum. Even super Russo-centric eekee is a student living temporarily in Russia on Daddy's money. How about living off the Russian economy? Then lets here how great it is.

The truth as I see it is once an American man decides to marry a Russian, he somehow has to rethink the awfulness and oppression of Russian society, and revise it in his mind to be just a misunderstood, basically good country. Bull. Look at the sinking of the Russian nuclear sub Kursk. Putin delayeed rescue operations offered by Norway solely to not make Russia look weak and inept. So everyone died. This is Russia. This is how the ego and twisted morality of Russia works. Same same when Chernobyl popped. Russia delayed warnings so more died. Russia dumps atomic waste in the sea polluting sea life. They don't care. It's expedient. This is how the Russian society operates at all levels, Screw the other guy. Screw the environment.

Media people and political opponents are assassinated and there is no justice. Putin does business with our enemies, Iran and Venezuela...yet complains and threatens when we try to put defensive missiles in Poland and the Czech Republic. It's always the same nonsense with Russia. I'm tired of it. Now I hear men attempt to paint Russia as a great place to live. Just don't go into the military or grow old because you'll get nothing from Mother Russia. I guess the "Mother" part ends when you get wounded or get old. Half the products sold in Russian stores are fake. There are no standards. No consumer protection. No law suits.

So, all you hotshot Russia lovers...move there. Stop blowing smoke and do it. Oh, wait, you say maybe later on down the road. Right.

Don't worry, I'm going.