Do you truly love your fiancé???

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Funny.... because those places, OF COURSE, do not have propaganda of their own? Oh how I love skewed views of americans...

And what would be the propaganda in Vladivostok ? Please explain....

And is it "Kharkiv" or "Kharkov" ?

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Funny.... because those places, OF COURSE, do not have propaganda of their own? Oh how I love skewed views of americans...

And what would be the propaganda in Vladivostok ? Please explain....

And is it "Kharkiv" or "Kharkov" ?

[SMR 368]

And what would be the propaganda in Vladivostok ? Please explain....

And is it "Kharkiv" or "Kharkov" ?

The issue is not really exactly what the propaganda is in Vladivostok. The point is that everywhere has its propaganda. If think that an certain area doesn't have its own breed of propaganda, you are most likely from there or have never been there.

I lived in Russia for two years and had the opportunity to see the interaction between a lot of Americans, young and old, and Russians. Over time, I realized the ridiculousness of cold-war bias that infiltrated Americans at a very subliminal and powerful level, even 20 years later.

Somehow, Americans are willing to criticize and suspect their government and politicians, the education system bias, the corruption in the system, the quality of products and food, and anything else, as long as they are standing on the good old USA and talking to other Americans. Many of the problems are made-up mud-slinging or bad science, but others are well-documented and real. I can think of at least half a dozen recent, high-level scandals of political corruption. Yet somehow, when Americans leave the country or start talking to foreigners, they are suddenly "proud to be American," the government is almost infallible, and our education, industry, ingenuity, and agriculture are second to none. I can understand this on the level of jingoist practicality but the intellectual dishonesty is suffocating when you truly realize what is going on.

Now, we could argue all day about how propaganda, personal freedom, security, and economic mobility vary in degrees from one country to another. But in the end, you're just comparing shades of gray. Many things in Russia are better, like the quality of public transportation, the quality and price of many types of food, and haircuts, to name a few.

I realize I am departing from government a little here, but that's because I don't think government should be at the heart of this argument. In no country in the world can an average citizen effectively change his or her government without a lot of money and/or quiting his or her day-job (even then things are usually pretty bleak). So we are left to compare the quality of life that the many factors in a nation, including government, grant to an individual. When making the comparison on this level, there is no way you can see the USA as white or any country as black. And shades of gray depend on the lighting.

[Brad and Vika 129]

Teach English, for a start. I would need to improve my Russian, but it's doable.

I could also work in her fathers business, or possibly for a transport or tech company interacting often with the EU or US.

None of which would pay well compared to my salary, but the question was about would you do it, not if it would lead to early retirement.

Except for the last possibility listed, I know the salary ranges on such jobs. Here, she has the option of not working. There, it's not much of an option.

Thanks for your response. I wasn't being critical - but really curious. I tried to start a business in Belarus once myself, so I have some experience with one of your potential scenarios above. PM me if you want the detail. If you work for her dad, he might be able to shield you from some of the issues I experienced, but that might also put him on the government radar. My partners always said "we want the government to know who we are, but not really know us".

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And what would be the propaganda in Vladivostok ? Please explain....

And is it "Kharkiv" or "Kharkov" ?

Not sure of Vladivostok, but western Ukraine is most full of propoganda BS. In fact the people of eastern Ukraine were blissfully unaware of all the "problems" until they were fed the propoganda. If you buy into that BS then you also believe that Rice-a-Roni is really from San Francisco! I also never saw people from one part of a country treat people from another part of the same country so horribly rude as people from Western Ukraine treat anyone who utters the Russian language. (though perhaps immediately after the War Between the States, we may have had a similar treatment for carpetbagging Yankees, that pre-dates me a few years so I can't comment) I would be ashamed to say I lived there.

The spelling differences are BS. More western Ukrainian propoganda. They represent transliterations from Russian or Ukrainian. Kiev or Kyiv...who cares? Just like they arbitrarily change people's names on passports. It would be the same thing if suddenly Canada decided that all people named "John" now had to be called "Jean" to appease the French speaking populace (like that is as likely to happen as appeasing western Ukrainians) and just do so without asking! Our sons have "officially" been changed from "Pavel" and "Sergey" to "Pavlo" and "Sergii". No one asked, just did it and I can't count the number of Svetlana's changed to Svitlana...it is just BS.

Historically speaking, people in Western Ukraine also jumped all over helping those invading facists in 1941 and were slaughtered wholesale by their new "friends" for their trouble. No good deed goes un-punished, eh?

[thongd4me 69]

Not sure of Vladivostok, but western Ukraine is most full of propoganda BS. In fact the people of eastern Ukraine were blissfully unaware of all the "problems" until they were fed the propoganda. If you buy into that BS then you also believe that Rice-a-Roni is really from San Francisco! I also never saw people from one part of a country treat people from another part of the same country so horribly rude as people from Western Ukraine treat anyone who utters the Russian language. (though perhaps immediately after the War Between the States, we may have had a similar treatment for carpetbagging Yankees, that pre-dates me a few years so I can't comment) I would be ashamed to say I lived there.

The spelling differences are BS. More western Ukrainian propoganda. They represent transliterations from Russian or Ukrainian. Kiev or Kyiv...who cares? Just like they arbitrarily change people's names on passports. It would be the same thing if suddenly Canada decided that all people named "John" now had to be called "Jean" to appease the French speaking populace (like that is as likely to happen as appeasing western Ukrainians) and just do so without asking! Our sons have "officially" been changed from "Pavel" and "Sergey" to "Pavlo" and "Sergii". No one asked, just did it and I can't count the number of Svetlana's changed to Svitlana...it is just BS.

Historically speaking, people in Western Ukraine also jumped all over helping those invading facists in 1941 and were slaughtered wholesale by their new "friends" for their trouble. No good deed goes un-punished, eh?

A Ukrainian co-worker of mine went through the same ###### - I personally miss the y's that were taken out of his first & last names.

[baron555 934]

the quality and price of many types of food,

Please do name a few of these, besides red beets, cabbage, potatoes and macaroni, what foods are available in Russia for better quality and price than here in the US? (I'm talking Midwest US also.)

And please do tell about variety availability there versus here.

[Martyshk 137]

And what would be the propaganda in Vladivostok ? Please explain....

And is it "Kharkiv" or "Kharkov" ?

I bolded out Galitsia for a reason, not Vladivostok. I have no idea whats going on in Russia, I never lived there.

Kharkov - Russian.

Kharkiv - Ukranian.

It's Kharkov for me because my native language is Russian. I know Ukrainian, but it's the same as English for me, just one other language I know.

[Martyshk 137]

To get a little insight into Western Ukraine, google SS "Galichina" (СС Галичина)

Please do name a few of these, besides red beets, cabbage, potatoes and macaroni, what foods are available in Russia for better quality and price than here in the US? (I'm talking Midwest US also.)

And please do tell about variety availability there versus here.

Every vegetable and fruit. Milk (I gotta say though, Organic Milk here tastes just as good, but regular milk......it's not even milk really).

Also meats.

I'm talking quality, not price, since I have no idea what prices are like over there now.

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

To get a little insight into Western Ukraine, google SS "Galichina" (СС Галичина)

Every vegetable and fruit. Milk (I gotta say though, Organic Milk here tastes just as good, but regular milk......it's not even milk really).

Also meats.

I'm talking quality, not price, since I have no idea what prices are like over there now.

And to get a little insight on Russified eastern Ukraine, google "Holodomor", "NKVD massacre's", and .... one of my favourites... "Ems Ukaz".

In fact let's get a little insight on why the Ukrainian and Belarusian language was all but snuffed out by Russia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russification <--- References are posted at the bottom of that page.

[Martyshk 137]

And to get a little insight on Russified eastern Ukraine, google "Holodomor", "NKVD massacre's", and .... one of my favourites... "Ems Ukaz".

In fact let's get a little insight on why the Ukrainian and Belarusian language was all but snuffed out by Russia.

http://en.wikipedia....i/Russification <--- References are posted at the bottom of that page.

OMFG ... Have YOU lived in Easter Ukraine or Crimea? Really.... it's all nice and easy to point. You understand that everything you just said pertains to USSR, right?

Ukraine has been an independent country for almost 20 years now.

Also, almost all of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea is Russian speaking. Even Ukrainians there are.

-----------------------

AND, if you want to dig back that far, why not talk about slavery and massacre of Native Americans here.... why the hell not, it had happened at SOME point in time, so who cares if it was 200 years ago, right?

Way to structure an argument....

Edited April 7, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

Not sure of Vladivostok, but western Ukraine is most full of propoganda BS. In fact the people of eastern Ukraine were blissfully unaware of all the "problems" until they were fed the propoganda. If you buy into that BS then you also believe that Rice-a-Roni is really from San Francisco! I also never saw people from one part of a country treat people from another part of the same country so horribly rude as people from Western Ukraine treat anyone who utters the Russian language. (though perhaps immediately after the War Between the States, we may have had a similar treatment for carpetbagging Yankees, that pre-dates me a few years so I can't comment) I would be ashamed to say I lived there.

The spelling differences are BS. More western Ukrainian propoganda. They represent transliterations from Russian or Ukrainian. Kiev or Kyiv...who cares? Just like they arbitrarily change people's names on passports. It would be the same thing if suddenly Canada decided that all people named "John" now had to be called "Jean" to appease the French speaking populace (like that is as likely to happen as appeasing western Ukrainians) and just do so without asking! Our sons have "officially" been changed from "Pavel" and "Sergey" to "Pavlo" and "Sergii". No one asked, just did it and I can't count the number of Svetlana's changed to Svitlana...it is just BS.

Historically speaking, people in Western Ukraine also jumped all over helping those invading facists in 1941 and were slaughtered wholesale by their new "friends" for their trouble. No good deed goes un-punished, eh?

Please let us know how many Ukrainian radio/TV stations, and Ukrainian language schools exist in Russia vs Russian radio/TV stations, and schooling exist in present day Ukraine. I can't knock Ukrainians that want to reverse the Russification done to them for hundreds of years.

What if the US was invaded, and forced to speak another language other than English ...not to mention tens of thousands of US citizens relocated, or even millions of them starved to death and replaced by ethnic Russians ? Ask a Tartar or Ukrainian Cossack about this.

[mox 298]

Please do name a few of these, besides red beets, cabbage, potatoes and macaroni, what foods are available in Russia for better quality and price than here in the US? (I'm talking Midwest US also.)

And please do tell about variety availability there versus here.

I can't speak to variety, but I've always found the quality of fruits and vegetables to be better in Russia. Here we go for size, and we pick way too early so that they're not even ripe in the supermarkets. Strawberries stick out in my mind--I've never ever had strawberries as good as I've had in Russia. They're about half the size you'll find here, but double the flavor. Grapes were fantastic in Kazan, as were melons, apples, and tomatoes. This coming from somebody who lives in the salad bowl region of the US. You can get the same quality if you buy directly from an organic grower here in the US, but because the agriculture industry's focus is so radically focused on quantity and size here, quality and taste suffers. My first-hand experience is that Russia doesn't focus so heavily on mass production, and so the quality is better.

Bonus supermarket tip to the ladies: if you've been lamenting the fact that you can't get quail eggs here in the US, go to an Asian supermarket. (and guys, they make an awesome egg salad sandwich.)

[Bad_Daddy 2,209]

OMFG ... Have YOU lived in Easter Ukraine or Crimea? Really.... it's all nice and easy to point. You understand that everything you just said pertains to USSR, right?

Ukraine has been an independent country for almost 20 years now.

Also, almost all of Eastern Ukraine and Crimea is Russian speaking. Even Ukrainians there are.

-----------------------

AND, if you want to dig back that far, why not talk about slavery and massacre of Native Americans here.... why the hell not, it had happened at SOME point in time, so who cares if it was 200 years ago, right?

Way to structure an argument....

200 years ago ? Try the 20th century. And please explain to us why eastern Ukraine speaks Russian and not Ukrainian. I know the answer to this one...do you ?

Edited April 7, 2010 by Why_Me

[Martyshk 137]

Please let us know how many Ukrainian radio/TV stations, and Ukrainian language schools exist in Russia vs Russian radio/TV stations, and schooling exist in present day Ukraine. I can't knock Ukrainians that want to reverse the Russification done to them for hundreds of years.

What if the US was invaded, and forced to speak another language other than English ...not to mention tens of thousands of US citizens relocated, or even millions of them starved to death and replaced by ethnic Russians ? Ask a Tartar or Ukrainian Cossack about this.

If you must know, the majority of programming in Ukraine is in Ukrainian. All movies in movie theaters are dubbed in Ukrainian.

How about you, for just a minute, stop being a self-righteous protector of all things Ukrainian and think about 2/3 of the country to whom Russian is their native language.

Also, if you are so pro-Ukrainian and sh!t, think about what Ukraine is doing to Crimea and Eastern region now, by FORCING Ukrainian language onto them.

Sounds familiar? So how is that better? Same sh!t imo.

200 years ago ? Try the 20th century. Seriously I would think your history on Ukraine would be better than this.

I was talking about slavery, jeebus **.

ALso, Emskiy Ukaz was 200+ years ago as well.

Edited April 7, 2010 by Мартышк+Мартышка