Turkish girl, 16, 'buried alive by her father because she had friendships with boys'

[Peikko 1,575]

Pressure on a world stage, sanctions, do whatever it takes but to act like we should do nothing and ignore it because it just a few debates away...well thats ridiculous. What do you propose we do? Nothing because its not our country?

Once again thinking we could have a productive debate with such backwards thinking is a joke, by demand I mean do things that are effective not debate, say this is how its going to be and how do we get to that point.

BS we can stay within the law and do plenty, we as a whole need to condemn this, its there country BS needs to end. I am not saying go to war or anything extreme like that so you dont need to go in that direction. But to act like we cant do nothing is pathetic.

Demanding people change their culture from the outside simply does not work. What generally happens is that those who believe in these types of behaviours are manipulated into becoming extremely intransigent on these issues by 'political' figures and organizations who feed on the fear of interference.

[FortLaudy 10]

Pressure on a world stage, sanctions, do whatever it takes but to act like we should do nothing and ignore it because it just a few debates away...well thats ridiculous. What do you propose we do? Nothing because its not our country?

The problem is that it's not that those governments promote this kind of behavior, it's a decision made within the family unit of people in that country, it's a way of thinking deeply engrained in their minds, been like that for centuries. You can go over there and be a missionary and try and change people's minds I guess if you're up for it, I don't think pressure or sanctions will do the trick... You underestimate the value of "family honor", even within another country with extremely tough punishment for murder this still happens...

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Not to mention that international sanctions are used against political regimes, but nearly always have the effect of harm to ordinary people.

[Peikko 1,575]

The problem is that it's not that those governments promote this kind of behavior, it's a decision made within the family unit of people in that country, it's a way of thinking deeply engrained in their minds, been like that for centuries. You can go over there and be a missionary and try and change people's minds I guess if you're up for it, I don't think pressure or sanctions will do the trick... You underestimate the value of "family honor", even within another country with extremely tough punishment for murder this still happens...

I think you have to share the 'religion' of the people they wish to influence or again, it's going to be considered outside interference and lead to intransigence.

I am not totally against the notion of sanctions, but they are not universally, or target selective effective.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[FortLaudy 10]

I think you have to share the 'religion' of the people they wish to influence or again, it's going to be considered outside interference and lead to intransigence.

I am not totally against the notion of sanctions, but they are not universally, or selectively effective.

I was suggesting the trip abroad to perhaps broaden the mind...

[Sandrila 1]

Absolutely HORRIFYING!

I can't imagine that as humans we can continue to do such things to anyone let alone our own children.

I am always so upset by the way people have to die

it's just so cruel and no justifiable reason why she should have that happen to her

[FortLaudy 10]

Absolutely HORRIFYING!

I can't imagine that as humans we can continue to do such things to anyone let alone our own children.

I am always so upset by the way people have to die

it's just so cruel and no justifiable reason why she should have that happen to her

Yes very sad, this is also pretty common in India:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/sep/26/wo...g-india-honor26

In northern India, village elders order 'honor killings'

The issue is especially of concern in Haryana, where members of the Jat ethnic community bar youth living within small clusters of villages from intermarrying. Defiance is met with threats, and death.

September 26, 2009|Mark Magnier

MATOUR, INDIA — Ved Pal Maun, 27, was something of a catch in this small farm community northwest of New Delhi. But his family members rejected several marriage offers; they said he just wasn't ready.

Truth was he was holding out for a particular woman, 18-year-old Sonia Banwal of the neighboring village of Singhwal.

Falling in love with the girl next door would be cause for joy and celebration in many countries. But in parts of rural India, ancient traditions are rooted more deeply than the tall corn and lush green rice plants. It's a land where marital engagements are arranged by families and follow complex rules of caste, clan and community, and where the cost of "dishonoring" one's community can be your life.

In late July, three months after Maun married Banwal, he was lynched by residents of her village. They hacked at his body with scythes and farm tools until he moved no more.

Nobody has been charged in the killing and the police, who accompanied him to the village that day, haven't even questioned the family, his parents said.

Such so-called honor killings occur periodically in several states across India, but Haryana, in the north, is particularly notorious, especially among the ethnic Jat community of Maun and Banwal. To the Jat, marrying someone from an adjacent village ruled by the same small group of male elders known as a khap panchayat is an egregious offense punishable by fines, banishment or worse.

Though there are parallel civil and legal structures, in practice, many police and administrators defer to the khap panchayat, making the aging patriarchy, in effect, a law unto itself.

The restrictive system has forced families to look further afield for marriage partners, in a culture that relies heavily on word of mouth.

Aware of what they were up against -- people answering to the same khap panchayat are considered siblings -- the couple eloped, married April 22 in a civil ceremony and moved to the town of Dirba, about two hours away.

--

For a few months the couple escaped their destiny amid the big town's bright lights and busy shops.

But while towns offer anonymity, villages take hostages. If they didn't return home, the couple was warned, the khap panchayat would banish their families.

"They returned with a sense of dread that she was going to be killed," said Mesar Maun, Ved Pal's mother, who lives in a concrete house with no chairs.

[Peikko 1,575]

Absolutely HORRIFYING!

I can't imagine that as humans we can continue to do such things to anyone let alone our own children.

I am always so upset by the way people have to die

it's just so cruel and no justifiable reason why she should have that happen to her

That is very true.

[FortLaudy 10]

The United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) estimates that the annual worldwide total of honor-killing victims may be as high as 5,000

[_Simpson_ 250]

Demanding people change their culture from the outside simply does not work. What generally happens is that those who believe in these types of behaviours are manipulated into becoming extremely intransigent on these issues by 'political' figures and organizations who feed on the fear of interference.

I didnt say the battle ends at demanding. We have to take the ball out of their court and put it in ours, do you seriously think debating is the answer. People that give a dam in the Turkish Gov. need to start demanding these changes and we need to hold them accountable. Thru sanctions, world demand, whatever, the Turkish Gov. is a more accountable then say the Iraq of yesterday. I think if we as a world were more vocal we would see change, but sadly so many people want to hang there hat on 'its there culture, let them talk it out' Sad very sad

[Darnell 8,479]

Good thing "it" doesn't happen in the US or UK.

it? honor killings? happens all over the world.

I stick with my original question - which sect of Islam was the father 'attached' to ?

If that 'sect' doesn't mandate honor killings, then he's doubly f*cked.

[Peikko 1,575]

I didnt say the battle ends at demanding. We have to take the ball out of their court and put it in ours, do you seriously think debating is the answer. People that give a dam in the Turkish Gov. need to start demanding these changes and we need to hold them accountable. Thru sanctions, world demand, whatever, the Turkish Gov. is a more accountable then say the Iraq of yesterday. I think if we as a world were more vocal we would see change, but sadly so many people want to hang there hat on 'its there culture, let them talk it out' Sad very sad

Not all the world thinks in the same way. If certain cultures start making demands over other cultures, then what do you think we will end up with? We do have the UN of course, and it does play a part in providing education, and particular attention is paid to educating women as well as children. Things do change, but to 'demand' and 'hold accountable' has been a singular failure through out history. Change needs to come from within and via education.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Simpson, you have a very naïve view of how the world works and how difficult it is to alter a country from without.

And I thought we were trying to get out of places like Iraq and Afghanistan, now we have to spend yet more money to bring those countries kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It just doesn't work like that.

[FortLaudy 10]

Change needs to come from within.

Bravo !

now we have to spend yet more money to bring those countries kicking and screaming into the 21st century. It just doesn't work like that.

[_Simpson_ 250]

The problem is that it's not that those governments promote this kind of behavior, it's a decision made within the family unit of people in that country, it's a way of thinking deeply engrained in their minds, been like that for centuries. You can go over there and be a missionary and try and change people's minds I guess if you're up for it, I don't think pressure or sanctions will do the trick... You underestimate the value of "family honor", even within another country with extremely tough punishment for murder this still happens...

I dont underestimate the value they have on "family honor"? , so by me saying I dont think we should stand around and let this happen while they debate it out has led you to that conclusion? Do you seriously think debating this is the answer?

Later on in this thread you go on to say that what you meant by your missionary statement was that it would broaden my mind, come on is that really what I need to experience to condemn this, do I just not get it?