Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....

[ziia 9]

She took the oath at the italian consulate in Los Angeles.

And no worries, last year, before applying, I sent an email to the State Dept and the US Consulate in Milan and they told there's no problem at all and that losing US citizenship is pretty impossible, unless you do that at US Consulate or fight against US forces (treason).

Then that's good news, I didn't know you can do that

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Edited March 10, 2010 by Italian_in_NYC

[NickD 202]

Your wife could go to a Colombian Consulate and formally give up her Colombian citizenship. That way, she won't be asked for a Colombian passport when going there.

That is not what we were told by a trusted notary, a long time friend of my wife's family. As long as she has Colombia written in her US passport, she will be required to have a Colombian passport to enter that country. With his connections we were able to start her ID renewal immediately rather than having to make a second trip in several months. She will be a verified citizen of Colombia, thanks to our DOS. End of story.

[ziia 9]

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html

Seriously I thought "intent" meant "being aware of what you're doing, at age etc" not necessarily renouncing US Citizenship in front of the US consul. But if what you say is true, then it's all good news .

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Even better explanation from the State Dept:

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

The Department of State is responsible for determining the citizenship status of a person located outside the United States or in connection with the application for a U.S. passport while in the United States.

POTENTIALLY EXPATRIATING ACTS

Section 349 of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1481), as amended, states that U.S. citizens are subject to loss of citizenship if they perform certain specified acts voluntarily and with the intention to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Briefly stated, these acts include:

obtaining naturalization in a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (1) INA);

taking an oath, affirmation or other formal declaration to a foreign state or its political subdivisions (Sec. 349 (a) (2) INA);

entering or serving in the armed forces of a foreign state engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or serving as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer in the armed forces of a foreign state (Sec. 349 (a) (3) INA);

accepting employment with a foreign government if (a) one has the nationality of that foreign state or (b) an oath or declaration of allegiance is required in accepting the position (Sec. 349 (a) (4) INA);

formally renouncing U.S. citizenship before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer outside the United States (sec. 349 (a) (5) INA);

formally renouncing U.S. citizenship within the U.S. (but only under strict, narrow statutory conditions) (Sec. 349 (a) (6) INA);

conviction for an act of treason (Sec. 349 (a) (7) INA).

ADMINISTRATIVE STANDARD OF EVIDENCE

As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

DISPOSITION OF CASES WHEN ADMINISTRATIVE PREMISE IS APPLICABLE

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

is naturalized in a foreign country;

takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign state;

serves in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or

accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government,

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.

When, as the result of an individual's inquiry or an individual's application for registration or a passport it comes to the attention of a U.S. consular officer that a U.S. citizen has performed an act made potentially expatriating by Sections 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2), 349(a)(3) or 349(a)(4) as described above, the consular officer will simply ask the applicant if there was intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when performing the act. If the answer is no, the consular officer will certify that it was not the person's intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship and, consequently, find that the person has retained U.S. citizenship.

PERSONS WHO WISH TO RELINQUISH U.S. CITIZENSHIP

If the answer to the question regarding intent to relinquish citizenship is yes , the person concerned will be asked to complete a questionnaire to ascertain his or her intent toward U.S. citizenship. When the questionnaire is completed and the voluntary relinquishment statement is signed by the expatriate, the consular officer will proceed to prepare a certificate of loss of nationality. The certificate will be forwarded to the Department of State for consideration and, if appropriate, approval.

An individual who has performed any of the acts made potentially expatriating by statute who wishes to lose U.S. citizenship may do so by affirming in writing to a U.S. consular officer that the act was performed with an intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Of course, a person always has the option of seeking to formally renounce U.S. citizenship abroad in accordance with Section 349 (a) (5) INA.

[ziia 9]

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.

When, as the result of an individual's inquiry or an individual's application for registration or a passport it comes to the attention of a U.S. consular officer that a U.S. citizen has performed an act made potentially expatriating by Sections 349(a)(1), 349(a)(2), 349(a)(3) or 349(a)(4) as described above, the consular officer will simply ask the applicant if there was intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship when performing the act. If the answer is no, the consular officer will certify that it was not the person's intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship and, consequently, find that the person has retained U.S. citizenship.

PERSONS WHO WISH TO RELINQUISH U.S. CITIZENSHIP

If the answer to the question regarding intent to relinquish citizenship is yes , the person concerned will be asked to complete a questionnaire to ascertain his or her intent toward U.S. citizenship. When the questionnaire is completed and the voluntary relinquishment statement is signed by the expatriate, the consular officer will proceed to prepare a certificate of loss of nationality. The certificate will be forwarded to the Department of State for consideration and, if appropriate, approval.

An individual who has performed any of the acts made potentially expatriating by statute who wishes to lose U.S. citizenship may do so by affirming in writing to a U.S. consular officer that the act was performed with an intent to relinquish U.S. citizenship. Of course, a person always has the option of seeking to formally renounce U.S. citizenship abroad in accordance with Section 349 (a) (5) INA.

Thx Italian_in_NYC for bringing my attention to this. Very interesting that's for sure

[NickD 202]

As long as we are quoting from the Department of state, how about this that is more applicable to the subject of this thread:

From: http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1753.html#

"Dual Nationality

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct.The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

However, dual nationals owe allegiance to both the United States and the foreign country. They are required to obey the laws of both countries. Either country has the right to enforce its laws, particularly if the person later travels there.Most U.S. citizens, including dual nationals, must use a U.S. passport to enter and leave the United States. Dual nationals may also be required by the foreign country to use its passport to enter and leave that country. Use of the foreign passport does not endanger U.S. citizenship.Most countries permit a person to renounce or otherwise lose citizenship.

Information on losing foreign citizenship can be obtained from the foreign country's embassy and consulates in the United States. Americans can renounce U.S. citizenship in the proper form at U.S. embassies and consulates abroad"

Find this statement by the DOS amusing as the DOS is the cause of a person having to have "Dual Nationality"!

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause."

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

That is not what we were told by a trusted notary, a long time friend of my wife's family. As long as she has Colombia written in her US passport, she will be required to have a Colombian passport to enter that country. With his connections we were able to start her ID renewal immediately rather than having to make a second trip in several months. She will be a verified citizen of Colombia, thanks to our DOS. End of story.

Well, it's too late now, but your notary was wrong.

http://colombiaemb.org/index.php?id=146&am...t&task=view

[v333k 59]

WOW! I was off the site for a couple of hours and there have been several pages of discussions.....

Anyway, I would like to throw in my 2 cents...

I agree with Mr. Italy - most countries require you to present and use the passport of their issuance if you are returning to your country. In addition, the US doesn't take away your citizenship unless you request it. The US allows dual-citizenship, so as long as the other country allows dual-citizenship too.

OK, I'll go over the threads again to catch up with you guys

PS... I hope you don't mind your nickname, it is much faster to type

Edited March 10, 2010 by v333k

[NickD 202]

Well, it's too late now, but your notary was wrong.

http://colombiaemb.org/index.php?id=146&am...t&task=view

Apparently you can't read.

"If I have double nationality, can I travel to Colombia with a passport different than the Colombian one? No, the Colombian who holds double nationality must always enter and leave Colombia with Colombian passports and Colombian citizenship identification. The Colombian who has double nationality will be subject of the Constitution and Colombian laws while in Colombian territory. Therefore their entrance, permanence and departure from the country will be done as a Colombian. Likewise, he or she must be identified as Colombian in all their political and civil acts, under penalty of being fined by the Administrative Department of Security (Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad DAS), in violation of the migratory regime. The principle of double nationality is established in article 96 of the Political Constitution of Colombia, which came into force on July 4, 1991."

And if you are thinking about this one:

"It is possible to renounce to the Colombian nationality? Yes. It can be done with a written manifestation presented before the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Colombia, or consulates abroad, and after fulfilling the requirements described in the Nationality section in the services to the Colombian area."

Try and explain that to the POE in Colombia if you have a US passport with Colombia written in big fat letters by our DOS all over it. And yes, she was checked when we left Colombia to make sure she started the action to renew her ID, so don't give me any BS, I don't need anymore than our experience of last week. It's better to say nothing then to make false assumptions for reading some ####### on the web and plenty of that as well.

Furthermore to my above post quoted from the DOS.

Find this statement by the DOS amusing as the DOS is the cause of a person having to have "Dual Nationality"!

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause."

My wife certainly is NOT "a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship", because she just happened to be born in Colombia and the DOS printed that in big fat letters on her US passport, she is forced to renew her ID to obtain a passport, just to occasionally visit her family. I feel what the DOS means by this statement is applying for citizenship in a country you were not born in. But as typical with all of our government agencies, very nebulous in their comment. Kind of sick of that as well.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Apparently you can't read.

"If I have double nationality, can I travel to Colombia with a passport different than the Colombian one? No, the Colombian who holds double nationality must always enter and leave Colombia with Colombian passports and Colombian citizenship identification. The Colombian who has double nationality will be subject of the Constitution and Colombian laws while in Colombian territory. Therefore their entrance, permanence and departure from the country will be done as a Colombian. Likewise, he or she must be identified as Colombian in all their political and civil acts, under penalty of being fined by the Administrative Department of Security (Departamento Administrativo de Seguridad DAS), in violation of the migratory regime. The principle of double nationality is established in article 96 of the Political Constitution of Colombia, which came into force on July 4, 1991."

And if you are thinking about this one:

"It is possible to renounce to the Colombian nationality? Yes. It can be done with a written manifestation presented before the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Colombia, or consulates abroad, and after fulfilling the requirements described in the Nationality section in the services to the Colombian area."

Try and explain that to the POE in Colombia if you have a US passport with Colombia written in big fat letters by our DOS all over it. And yes, she was checked when we left Colombia to make sure she started the action to renew her ID, so don't give me any BS, I don't need anymore than our experience of last week. It's better to say nothing then to make false assumptions for reading some ####### on the web and plenty of that as well.

Furthermore to my above post quoted from the DOS.

Find this statement by the DOS amusing as the DOS is the cause of a person having to have "Dual Nationality"!

"The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause."

My wife certainly is NOT "a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship", because she just happened to be born in Colombia and the DOS printed that in big fat letters on her US passport, she is forced to renew her ID to obtain a passport, just to occasionally visit her family. I feel what the DOS means by this statement is applying for citizenship in a country you were not born in. But as typical with all of our government agencies, very nebulous in their comment. Kind of sick of that as well.

First of all, the "#######" I quoted is from the Colombian Embassy website, not from a blog of a teenager smoking pot.

And it makes exactly my point. If you're a dual-citizen, then you must enter Colombia with the Colombian passport.

But you can give up your Colombian citizenship by going to the Embassy or Consulate. It mirrors exactly the US policy on the matter.

That is the law. Once your wife renounces to her Colombian citizenship, it should be updated in their database.

But until she does that, she will be considered Colombian at any Colombian POE, and therefore she must use her Colombian passport. Could there be incompetent immigration officers at the POE? Sure. But that doesn't change facts.

[ziia 9]

WOW! I was off the site for a couple of hours and there have been several pages of discussions.....

Anyway, I would like to throw in my 2 cents...

I agree with Mr. Italy - most countries require you to present and use the passport of their issuance if you are returning to your country. In addition, the US doesn't take away your citizenship unless you request it. The US allows dual-citizenship, so as long as the other country allows dual-citizenship too.

OK, I'll go over the threads again to catch up with you guys

PS... I hope you don't mind your nickname, it is much faster to type

Now I understand the confusion on some people who go to in the US Army and have to fight in the country they were born in. Hopefully the other country doesn't draft him(dual citizen) the second he steps foot on its soil to fight on their side because he had to use the other Passport so he's a citizen and he's obliged to oby the law lol. Then the two countries can claim him and split his time in two in the evening he fights one country and the in the morning, another.. lol. I'm just saying. I think we need a smile around here...we've been chatting a bunch on this thread

Edited March 10, 2010 by ziia

[v333k 59]

Now I understand the confusion on some people who go to in the US Army and have to fight in the country they were born in. Hopefully the other country doesn't draft him(dual citizen) the second he steps foot on its soil to fight on their side because he had to use the other Passport so he's a citizen and he's obliged to oby the law lol. Then the two countries can claim him and split his time in two in the evening he fights one country and the in the morning, another.. lol. I'm just saying. I think we need a smile around here...we've been chatting a bunch on this thread

that's a good one!

[ziia 9]

that's a good one!

Thx . "Army of darkness" came to mind lol. I'm having a good time here all by myself and together with you guys i hope after all this serious writing

Edited March 10, 2010 by ziia

[v333k 59]

Thx . "Army of darkness" came to mind lol. I'm having a good time here all by myself and together with you guys i hope after all this serious writing

I am enjoying the discussion too...