Omitting Place of Birth on a US Passport....

[antda 13]

Hi Everyone,

Lol..I'm the one that started this thread in the first place...So I suppose I'm partly to blame for it being so long...

Heck, I'm surprised that this thread even got so long and debating in the first place....

I was just asking a simple question..Oh well...I got more than enough answers here..Thanks...

The bottom line (well my opinion anyways): It is a disadvantage to have a country of birth listed on any passport....

Thanks to all for posting and replying to this message thread..What an interesting debate, indeed!

In my situation (as I stated before)...Is like this..

I was born in X country and as far as I'm concerned have no citizenship and/or other ties to this country anymore.

I have Canadian citizenship through naturalization and have a Canadian passport.

My Canadian passport has a "blank" on it for "country of birth", as I requested such be done...

No problems with the Canadian "blank" passport...

But before I have had problems travelling with my US green card with my X birth country listed on it....

I now have US/American citizenship through naturalization.

And on my citizenship certificate it says my former country of citizenship is Canada, as I requested such be stated....

Unfortunately I cannot travel with just a citizenship certificate....

And I do not have a US passport, for various reasons (this "birth country" issue being one of them).....

And to say, American passports cannot provide this "blank" birth country status, like Canada does.....

So because of all this, I HAVE to keep my Canadian passport for travel purposes....

(which is harder than you think to get and/or renew such, and is a big inconvenience...that's another story...)

Even though I would prefer to have an American passport instead, since I am an American, first and foremost......

And because of my dilemma, neither my American-born husband, or my son have American passports either....

We're one big American family...Ant+D+BabyA.......lol...But with no American passports!

So yes, in the end, I agree and have to wonder.......

What's with documentation anyway?

Hope this helps explain things a bit further....Thanks again to all with your replies...

Ant

Edited March 13, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

So what is important, where a person is born where they had no choice of, or what country they are from?

Just a question.

NickD-I agree...

I had no choice in the country I was born in..

But I had a choice as to the country(ies) as to where I was naturalized in.....

I have no problems with an American passport just stating "American" on it...

As I was naturalized and chose to be American

Nor do I have any problems with a Canadian passport just stating "Canadian" on it.....

As I was naturalized and chose to be Canadian

I do though have problems with any passports/documents stating my country of birth on it...

Which I did not choose to be a part of, nor do I want to be a part of....And this has caused problems before and will continue to do so too....

Really..This boils down to this too...:

Neither of us choose to be born into this world and the circumstances behind one's own birth...

Should the government and/or anyone else negatively discriminate and/or pre-judge because of that.....No!!

And by putting down birth country, race, or anything like that which are beyond control, and then to be judged on that, isn't this unfair?

Hmm.....Just a thought....

Ok..I'm moving on to other issues....My turn to throw in the towel (lol..and write to my congressman and/or other agencies about this too).....

Ant

Edited March 13, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

Just a little clarification on what I said about the Passport Chip:

"To facilitate the frequent travel of Americans living in border communities, and to meet the Department of Homeland Security’s operational needs along the land borders, the passport card has a vicinity-read radio frequency identification (RFID) chip. With this technology, Customs and Border Protection inspectors are able to access photographs and other biographical information stored in secure government databases before the traveler reaches the inspection station. There is no personal information written on the electronic chip itself. The only information contained on the chip is a unique number which points to a stored record contained in secure government databases."

http://travel.state.gov/passport/ppt_card/ppt_card_3921.html

Here is my quick thought on the RFID chip versus a "country of birth" listed, based on my own experiences....

-My former US Green Card had an RFID chip and with my former country of birth

-I had several problems travelling by land with my US Green Card..

-My current US NYS Enhanced Driver's License has an RFID chip (but no former country of birth listed)

-My current Canadian passport has an RFID chip (but no former country of birth listed)

-I've had no problems travelling by land with my US NYS Enhanced Driver's License and Canadian Passport..

So as you can see...Having an RFID chip only, with no birth country listed, on ALL documents...can be a solution to this problem...

It's a happy medium...The traveller is not discrimated against, and the border officials have access to that information if need be...

Just a thought....

Ant

[NickD 202]

Here is my quick thought on the RFID chip versus a "country of birth" listed, based on my own experiences....

-My former US Green Card had an RFID chip and with my former country of birth

-I had several problems travelling by land with my US Green Card..

-My current US NYS Enhanced Driver's License has an RFID chip (but no former country of birth listed)

-My current Canadian passport has an RFID chip (but no former country of birth listed)

-I've had no problems travelling by land with my US NYS Enhanced Driver's License and Canadian Passport..

So as you can see...Having an RFID chip only, with no birth country listed, on ALL documents...can be a solution to this problem...

It's a happy medium...The traveller is not discrimated against, and the border officials have access to that information if need be...

Just a thought....

Ant

The Pro replies I read, haven't a great interest in this thread in regards to putting ones' country of birth on the passport, were those that stated they were either proud of the country they were born in or certain key advantages to having a home country passport over what the US passport has to offer.

My Con on this subject is having to pay for two foreign passports with extremely great inconvenience to obtain them at high expense just so my wife can visit her son and mom. With that country of birth removed, her US passport would be perfectly okay to accomplish the same thing.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Ant,

You have the perfect solution.

Keep both passports (I'm sure renewing a Canadian passport is not as difficult as renewing, say, a Venezuelan passport, and it's every 10 years anyways), use the Canadian passport when entering third countries (a Canadian passport, in terms of visa needs, is just as good, if not even better, than a US passport) and use your US passport when entering the US.

However, depending on where you travel, you might be asked for proof of place of birth and in that case you will have to show your US passport. Your husband and baby can get a US passport with no problem and you can travel with them using a Canadian passport.

Traveling with two passports (especially two first world countries, such as US/Canada, or US/EU, or US/Australia) is absolutely an advantage. The only inconvenience I could think of is the extra passport book in your pocket (obviously, I am being sarcastic).

The place of birth is not about what we feel or how we feel, it's a unique, unchangeable anagraphic data about us, just like the date of birth. You can change your first name, you can change your last name, you can change or acquire other citizenships, you can lose or gain weight and color your hair, you can even change your gender, but you cannot change your date or place of birth. That's why they want to keep it on your passport.

[NickD 202]

You can change your first name, you can change your last name, you can change or acquire other citizenships, you can lose or gain weight and color your hair, you can even change your gender, but you cannot change your date or place of birth. That's why they want to keep it on your passport.

Find this statement to be just a tad outlandish, are you saying I could enter a country looking like a girl as long as my country and birth and date of birth is entered? Can't even get a US passport if my photo cracks a tiny smile.

When my wife and daughter first came here, Chavez decided to change the Venezuelan passport cover obsoleting the old passport, even if it was only less than a year old. Only way to get one was from the black market he created at a price tag of $750.00 US equivalent dollars. Then a couple of extra one hundred dollar bills under the table to get those passports this millennium. Stated Colombia is the same way so we didn't have to wait down there a couple of extra months to start the ID process.

Even on some work visas, the USCIS does the same thing, but they call it an expedient fee, would have happily paid the same "fee" if they offered that on the AOS and the I-751. Feel I like been dealing with a bunch of crooks. Thought it would be over by driving just two miles to get my wife a US Passport for a couple of hundred bucks. Least we don't have to fly down to Venezuela or Colombia to do that. Their US based consulates are even far more corrupt.

You sure like to paint a rosy picture on these passport regulations, Italian_In_NYC, certainly hasn't been my experience.

Could change my handle to Italian_In_WI, but use my real Nickname, instead.

You can change your first name, you can change your last name, you can change or acquire other citizenships, you can lose or gain weight and color your hair, you can even change your gender, but you cannot change your date or place of birth. That's why they want to keep it on your passport.

Find this statement to be just a tad outlandish, are you saying I could enter a country looking like a girl as long as my country and birth and date of birth is entered? Can't even get a US passport if my photo cracks a tiny smile.

When my wife and daughter first came here, Chavez decided to change the Venezuelan passport cover obsoleting the old passport, even if it was only less than a year old. Only way to get one was from the black market he created at a price tag of $750.00 US equivalent dollars. Then a couple of extra one hundred dollar bills under the table to get those passports this millennium. Stated Colombia is the same way so we didn't have to wait down there a couple of extra months to start the ID process.

Even on some work visas, the USCIS does the same thing, but they call it an expedient fee, would have happily paid the same "fee" if they offered that on the AOS and the I-751. Feel I like been dealing with a bunch of crooks. Thought it would be over by driving just two miles to get my wife a US Passport for a couple of hundred bucks. Least we don't have to fly down to Venezuela or Colombia to do that. Their US based consulates are even far more corrupt.

You sure like to paint a rosy picture on these passport regulations, Italian_In_NYC, certainly hasn't been my experience.

Could change my handle to Italian_In_WI, but use my real Nickname, instead.

Until recently since Ant is from Canada, she didn't even even need a passport card to visit that country. Ever feel they are putting chains around our necks?

[Ladylethal 12]

I dunno about leaving it blank but putting anything in that it's NOT your actual country of birth sounds like misinforming the official that's looking at your passport. You may be naturalized but you're a citizen through birth in US soil, so you cannot have US in that space. That's what I think. I dunno where Ant was born and why it's such a problem but I guess my country of birth would be there including to show why I can't become president or something (not born here), it's important info and it should not matter when traveling. You were born elsewhere but you remain a citizen of US and that's what they should look at in immigration.

Edited March 14, 2010 by Ladylethal

[antda 13]

More Replies..

(bear with me, I'm still trying to figure out this new VJ format..hope it works...)

The Pro replies I read, haven't a great interest in this thread in regards to putting ones' country of birth on the passport, were those that stated they were either proud of the country they were born in or certain key advantages to having a home country passport over what the US passport has to offer.

My Con on this subject is having to pay for two foreign passports with extremely great inconvenience to obtain them at high expense just so my wife can visit her son and mom. With that country of birth removed, her US passport would be perfectly okay to accomplish the same thing.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

NickD-Agree with the Con with you here....Why pay for an extra passport? I wish I could just have one passport, and it would solve this inconvenience.

I think that this problem is somewhat "unique" to those of us who have "triple citizenship"....

Here, let me explain further...

Here is my situation, in simplier terms:

Country X (birth country): No citizenship status, No legal status. No passport.

Canada: Naturalized citizen. Passport birth country listed as: Blank (as requested)

USA: Naturalized citizen. Passport birth country: Country X (if I do apply for a passport, that is)

Travel plans (for the time being..I'm broke..): Travel to Canada and back home to the USA...

Surely the mention of Country X on a US passport would cause problems here?

Hence, I HAVE to maintain my Canadian passport too...

I've travelled with country x listed on my green card = problems

I've travelled with blank listed on my Candian passport and EDL = no problems

So as you can see country x causes me problems!

Lol...Been there, done that, don't want to go through that again...

A better solution...

USA: Naturalized citizen. Passport birth country: Blank or Buffalo,NY or Canada (wishful thinking...)

And hence..I asked....And started this thread.....

Ant, You have the perfect solution.

Keep both passports (I'm sure renewing a Canadian passport is not as difficult as renewing, say, a Venezuelan passport, and it's every 10 years anyways), use the Canadian passport when entering third countries (a Canadian passport, in terms of visa needs, is just as good, if not even better, than a US passport) and use your US passport when entering the US.

However, depending on where you travel, you might be asked for proof of place of birth and in that case you will have to show your US passport. Your husband and baby can get a US passport with no problem and you can travel with them using a Canadian passport. Traveling with two passports (especially two first world countries, such as US/Canada, or US/EU, or US/Australia) is absolutely an advantage. The only inconvenience I could think of is the extra passport book in your pocket (obviously, I am being sarcastic). The place of birth is not about what we feel or how we feel, it's a unique, unchangeable anagraphic data about us, just like the date of birth. You can change your first name, you can change your last name, you can change or acquire other citizenships, you can lose or gain weight and color your hair, you can even change your gender, but you cannot change your date or place of birth. That's why they want to keep it on your passport.

Italian_In_NYC-I do have a Canadian passport...but....It is only valid for 5 years (Canadian passports aren't issued for longer than that)..And it costs quite a bit to renew ($100 for 5 years only, compared to a US one for 10 years for the same price). Not to mention, the renewal process is tricky too, requiring Canadian guarrantors, references, certain Canadian photo specs. and other stuff like that. Lol...Though the strange irony behind this is that it is closer for me to cross the Canadian border to find a Canadian passport office, than a US passport office..lol...So yes, while I do still have my valid Canadian for now, I don't know whether or not I should renew it. While it is an advantage to have 2 passports, it can get pretty costly and confusing to have such. So I would just rather simplify my life...Only one passport...lol..

I agree that the place of brith is not something one can change. But does it have to be made that obvious? Put it on a chip, security database, or something else that is less obvious...I don't care..Just don't put it on the passport itself where everyone else can see, and can lead to obvious discrimination problems...

Lol..It's like putting one's weight, race, medical condition, etc. on a passport...gee...Do we really have to know that?

Until recently since Ant is from Canada, she didn't even even need a passport card to visit that country. Ever feel they are putting chains around our necks?

NickD-Yes, this is true, it wasn't until 2009 that we needed passports to visit Canada and come back to the USA. Lol..And it is hence why for so many years, my USC husband never got a passport..And to this day, he still doesn't have a passport. We prefer to use EDLs...a lot easier this way.... Sigh, wish we could just use birth certificates and/or naturalization certificates..Whatever happened to the good old days? Guess they all got paranoid at the border or something.....lol...

I dunno about leaving it blank but putting anything in that it's NOT your actual country of birth sounds like misinforming the official that's looking at your passport. You may be naturalized but you're a citizen through birth in US soil, so you cannot have US in that space. That's what I think. I dunno where Ant was born and why it's such a problem but I guess my country of birth would be there including to show why I can't become president or something (not born here), it's important info and it should not matter when traveling. You were born elsewhere but you remain a citizen of US and that's what they should look at in immigration.

Ladylethal-Well...I was naturalized on US soil. I am a US citizen. So why do they have to put another country of birth on my passport? Explain. You are right when you say "you remain a citizen of the US and that's what they should look at in immigration"...And that's what my passport should say. And putting anything else, seems contradictory, really.....

Ant

Edited March 14, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[NickD 202]

Italian_In_NYC-I do have a Canadian passport...but....It is only valid for 5 years (Canadian passports aren't issued for longer than that)..And it costs quite a bit to renew ($100 for 5 years only, compared to a US one for 10 years for the same price). Not to mention, the renewal process is tricky too, requiring Canadian guarrantors, references, certain Canadian photo specs. and other stuff like that. Lol...Though the strange irony behind this is that it is closer for me to cross the Canadian border to find a Canadian passport office, than a US passport office.

Yeah, but my wife can enter Canada with her US Passport, since her country of birth is listed as Colombia and easy since no Canadian visa is required. Matter of fact, we were there last summer. And of course, no problem in coming back to the USA with a US passport, but a lot easier by car than by the airlines. Just as long as you pull out the weeds from under your car. Maybe I can talk her family to move up to Canada.

[Ladylethal 12]

Ant, all I'm saying is that putting US would be incorrect 'cus although you are a citizen now you were not born in the US. But I guess they should allow leaving it blank.

Actually, I never looked closely to see if my passport has that info or just Country of Citizenship, but I think all passports have country of birth, no?

[antda 13]

Yeah, but my wife can enter Canada with her US Passport, since her country of birth is listed as Colombia and easy since no Canadian visa is required. Matter of fact, we were there last summer. And of course, no problem in coming back to the USA with a US passport, but a lot easier by car than by the airlines. Just as long as you pull out the weeds from under your car. Maybe I can talk her family to move up to Canada.

NickD-Glad that you and your wife had no problems travelling to Canada by land and glad that you had a good time there..

Lol..and yes, it is a nice place to visit (though to live there..that's another story...way too expensive...).

For my situation, it is a bit different though..

If I try travel between Canada/America with an American passport with X country stated...

While I have American and Canadian citizenships....

I'm sure I'll get the look and further questioning again...

Would be easier if I had an American passport that said....

USA: Naturalized citizen. Passport birth country: Blank or Buffalo,NY or Canada (wishful thinking...)

Hmm..It's like in your situation...Your USC wife travelling to Venezuela (or however you spell it) only...but with a US passport that said Columbia on it...I'm sure she'll get questioned by Venezuelian officials and/or American officials too...

And hence she has to keep her Venezuelian passport because of this.

And same goes with me with my Canadian passport.

Oh the woes of having triple ties/triple citizenships...lol...

In the meantime, I have my US EDL and Canadian passport...That's good enough for cross-border travel for now....lol..

Ant

[antda 13]

Ant, all I'm saying is that putting US would be incorrect 'cus although you are a citizen now you were not born in the US. But I guess they should allow leaving it blank.

Actually, I never looked closely to see if my passport has that info or just Country of Citizenship, but I think all passports have country of birth, no?

Ladylethal-Lol..I was naturalizated in the USA...And that is sort of like a "rebirth", in that all naturalized citizens have the same rights (except running for president) as any natural-born citizen...

So why not have (place of naturalization) USA on a US passport?

Canadian passports are allowed "blank" as an option on one's place of birth....

American passports unfortunately do not allow this (from what I've read from the replies on this thread)...

My Canadian passport says "blank" for "country of birth"..(I requested they put such)

My Naturalization certificate says "Canada" as "former country of citizenship"....(I requested they put such)

My former green card used to say "(birth country X)" as "country of birth"

My marriage certificate says "(birth country X)" and has a "Canadian address" on it...(yes, this is messed up..)

My EDL only has an "American address" on it....

My American passport says...who knows....lol....(I don't have one yet..)

But yeah...This is confusing....

Sigh..Can't I just have one consistent document?

Ant

Edited March 14, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[NickD 202]

Ladylethal-Lol..I was naturalizated in the USA...And that is sort of like a "rebirth", in that all naturalized citizens have the same rights (except running for president) as any natural-born citizen...

So why not have (place of naturalization) USA on a US passport?

Canadian passports are allowed "blank" as an option on one's place of birth....

American passports unfortunately do not allow this (from what I've read from the replies on this thread)...

My Canadian passport says "blank" for "country of birth"..(I requested they put such)

My Naturalization certificate says "Canada" as "former country of citizenship"....(I requested they put such)

My former green card used to say "(birth country X)" as "country of birth"

My marriage certificate says "(birth country X)" and has a "Canadian address" on it...(yes, this is messed up..)

My EDL only has an "American address" on it....

My American passport says...who knows....lol....(I don't have one yet..)

But yeah...This is confusing....

Sigh..Can't I just have one consistent document?

Ant

Well Ant, if what Italian_In_NYC says is true:

"The place of birth is not about what we feel or how we feel, it's a unique, unchangeable anagraphic data about us, just like the date of birth. You can change your first name, you can change your last name, you can change or acquire other citizenships, you can lose or gain weight and color your hair, you can even change your gender, but you cannot change your date or place of birth. That's why they want to keep it on your passport. "

You and my wife can swap US passports, so she would be free to go to Colombia, and you would be free to go to Canada.

Just tell them, only your hairdresser knows for sure.

[Italian_in_NYC 259]

Ladylethal-Lol..I was naturalizated in the USA...And that is sort of like a "rebirth", in that all naturalized citizens have the same rights (except running for president) as any natural-born citizen...

So why not have (place of naturalization) USA on a US passport?

Canadian passports are allowed "blank" as an option on one's place of birth....

American passports unfortunately do not allow this (from what I've read from the replies on this thread)...

My Canadian passport says "blank" for "country of birth"..(I requested they put such)

My Naturalization certificate says "Canada" as "former country of citizenship"....(I requested they put such)

My former green card used to say "(birth country X)" as "country of birth"

My marriage certificate says "(birth country X)" and has a "Canadian address" on it...(yes, this is messed up..)

My EDL only has an "American address" on it....

My American passport says...who knows....lol....(I don't have one yet..)

But yeah...This is confusing....

Sigh..Can't I just have one consistent document?

Ant

Ant,

Forgive me, but I don't quite get your issue.

If you travel to Canada, unless you formally relinquish your Canadian citizenship, you have to use a Canadian passport.

To get back in the US, by land, you might use your EDL.

However, if you ever fly, even to Canada, you will need both passports (Canadian to clear Canadian immigration, and US to clear US immigration).

There's no discrimination: US-born citizens do NOT have the option to leave their place of birth blank or to put down something else. And neither do you.

We already said why the US government does not allow to leave out the country of birth on anybody's passport, and I think we agree.

Anyways, let's say they adopt your idea and leave that information on a chip.

Those chips are made to be read by immigration officers around the world. While some other information might be just for the US Govt, other info, such as your name, citizenship, date and place of birth are for everybody.

So if you refer to having problems while coming back to the US, then the chip won't solve this, because the information is there.

If you refer to having problems going to Canada, you must use your canadian passport anyways.

Third countries: I think they could read the chip too. But even if they don't, you will most likely be asked where you were born.

For NickD: I don't understand your point. Let's say your wife gets a US passport without a place of birth listed and then you go to Colombia. Then at the Colombian POE she is asked where she was born. What is she going to do? Lie to them? Good luck with that.

Edited March 15, 2010 by Italian_in_NYC

[La Souris 19]

nm

Edited March 15, 2010 by La Souris