Citizenship claim question

[janurabi 0]

Hello all

I've been scouting the internet for information on my chances of being a U.S. citizen. I was wondering if someone could help me or point me in the right direction. Here's my scenario, it's a bit complex:

My mother lived in the United States from the ages of 7 - 19. She left the States in 1969 to marry my father whose a Canadian citizen at the age of 19. She's resided in Canada ever since. My grandparents became naturalized citizens of the U.S. in 1964 when my mother was 14. My mother has an alien number and SSN. To my understanding any minor with a Green Card when parents become naturalized are automatically citizens without the ceremonial stuff that goes with it. Both my grandparents resided in Minnesota until their deaths respectively in 1974 and 1984 as U.S. citizens. My mother discovering that she had been a citizen of the U.S. all along is in the process of getting her U.S. passport. She never really checked into that until now, because we were all ignorant of the pre-requisites and requirements. She's been working closely with the U.S. Consulate in Calgary, who acknowledge her as a citizen of the United States. She's currently awaiting her alien #. Not too far from getting it actually.

I was born in 1978, my parents were and are still married and I've lived in Canada all my life.

I was wondering if it was possible that I acquired citizenship through my mother by birth or if not, through Double Constructive Retention.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[sharaincali 0]

If your mother was a US citizen when you were born, no matter what country you were born in, you automatically are given her US citizen status.

My suggestion would be to wait a little longer until she receives her passport, and get some documentation of when she actually became a citizen, and then apply for your SSN and passport.

Shara

[VanessaTony 3,567]

from here:

"The US immigration law permits citizenship through parentage under certain requirements and conditions. This means children of a US citizen parent are able to acquire citizenship provided both parents or at least one parent is a US citizen. This is derived by citizenship of children born in US (biological – legitimate or illegitimate- or adopted children) or citizenship of children born overseas (biological – legitimate or illegitimate – or adopted children).

An important factor a parent should be aware of is that his citizenship, whether obtained by birth or naturalization, is already a way to have a child automatically acquire US citizenship. In both options mentioned above, parent and child must meet conditions before citizenship is granted to the child. Citizenship of children born in US who are under 18 years or age and unmarried is qualified under this provision. Even if a child is only legitimated, which means his parents were not married, he is still eligible for the citizenship. This also goes to legally adopted children of a US citizen parent or parents.

The case of citizenship of children born overseas to US citizen parent living outside the United States is quite similar in the conditions that must be followed with the first circumstance. The child has to be unmarried, under the age of 18 and with at least one US citizen parent. In the event that the US citizen parent is already deceased, the child still qualifies for citizenship if the parent was a US citizen at the time of death. This also goes to legally adopted children of a US citizen parent or parents living outside the US.

The parent must file up an Application for Citizenship and Issuance of Certificate or Form N-600K on behalf of a child residing outside the US. Form N-600 or Application for Citizenship must be filled up on behalf of a child residing in the US.

So it doesn't look like you can, no.

From here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_ci...a#Jus_sanguinis

Jus sanguinis

Under certain circumstances, US citizenship can be acquired via jus sanguinis from one's parents. The following conditions affect children born outside the US and its outlying possessions to married parents (special conditions affect children born out of wedlock: see below):[5]

* If both parents are US citizens, the child is a citizen if either of the parents has ever lived in the US prior to the child's birth

* If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is a US national, the child is a citizen if the US citizen parent has lived in the US for a continuous period of at least one year prior to the child's birth

* If one parent is a US citizen and the other parent is not, the child is a citizen if

o the US citizen parent has been "physically present"[6] in the US before the child's birth for a total period of at least five years, and

o at least two of those five years were after the US citizen parent's fourteenth birthday.

--------------------------

Also, US citizen's don't get alien numbers, naturalised alien's do. The reason your mother obtained her citizenship is most likely because her parents listed her on their petition as a child of theirs, and also most likely because she fulfiled the above requirement of being in the states for the required periods, and .. yeah.

By all means speak with a lawyer if you want more information but it doesn't appear that you fulfil the requirements. Sorry

Edited February 5, 2010 by Vanessa&Tony

[sunny808 1]

janurabi, you stated that your mom has resided in Canada since she was 19 and that you were born in 1978.

here are my questions:

1) can you tell me exactly when she turned 19 and when she moved to Canada?

2) has your mother been physically present in the United States after residing in Canada? short visits count.

3) can you or your mom establish through documentation that your mom has been physically present in the United States for at least 10 years, 5 years of which were after the age of 14?

consult the chart here: http://www.shusterman.com/citz-chart1.html -> by your birth year, you would fall under the second to the last category in the chart.

if your mother is indeed a US citizen, which i think she is, and that you were born in 1978, you may derive US citizenship if she has been physically present in the US for 10 years, 5 years of which were after the age of 14. if she had been physically present in the US until she was 19, you probably have the 5 year requirement after 14 years of age met but i don't know if she was physically present in the U.S. or had been in Canada before she turned 19. if she had made trips to Canada before she turned 19, she might fall short of the 5 year physical presence requirement after 14 years of age, and it would be important to document any amount of time she spent in the US after 19, to make up any shortfall and meet the 5 year requirement.

if you think you can establish all the above, you very might well have derived US citizenship from your mother.

Edited February 5, 2010 by sunny808

[lucyrich 20]

janurabi, you stated that your mom has resided in Canada since she was 19 and that you were born in 1978.

here are my questions:

1) can you tell me exactly when she turned 19 and when she moved to Canada?

2) has your mother been physically present in the United States after residing in Canada? short visits count.

3) can you or your mom establish through documentation that your mom has been physically present in the United States for at least 10 years, 5 years of which were after the age of 14?

consult the chart here: http://www.shusterman.com/citz-chart1.html -> by your birth year, you would fall under the second to the last category in the chart.

if your mother is indeed a US citizen, which i think she is, and that you were born in 1978, you may derive US citizenship if she has been physically present in the US for 10 years, 5 years of which were after the age of 14. if she had been physically present in the US until she was 19, you probably have the 5 year requirement after 14 years of age met but i don't know if she was physically present in the U.S. or had been in Canada before she turned 19. if she had made trips to Canada before she turned 19, she might fall short of the 5 year physical presence requirement after 14 years of age, and it would be important to document any amount of time she spent in the US after 19, to make up any shortfall and meet the 5 year requirement.

if you think you can establish all the above, you very might well have derived US citizenship from your mother.

A further qualification: Note that all of the required US Citizen parent's physical presence in the US must have happened before the child's birth. So, for example, if mother had spent 4 years 10 months in the US after age 14 as of the date of birth of the child, and spent another year or two in the US after the child was born, that extra time after the child's birth doesn't help.

Also, it's not stated explicitly, but I assume janurabi's parents were married at the time janurabi was born. If not, there are different rules that apply, and they're more lenient.

[JERIII 8]

from here:

An important factor a parent should be aware of is that his citizenship, whether obtained by birth or naturalization, is already a way to have a child automatically acquire US citizenship. In both options mentioned above, parent and child must meet conditions before citizenship is granted to the child. Citizenship of children born in US who are under 18 years or age and unmarried is qualified under this provision. Even if a child is only legitimated, which means his parents were not married, he is still eligible for the citizenship. This also goes to legally adopted children of a US citizen parent or parents.

The case of citizenship of children born overseas to US citizen parent living outside the United States is quite similar in the conditions that must be followed with the first circumstance. The child has to be unmarried, under the age of 18 and with at least one US citizen parent. In the event that the US citizen parent is already deceased, the child still qualifies for citizenship if the parent was a US citizen at the time of death. This also goes to legally adopted children of a US citizen parent or parents living outside the US.

The parent must file up an Application for Citizenship and Issuance of Certificate or Form N-600K on behalf of a child residing outside the US. Form N-600 or Application for Citizenship must be filled up on behalf of a child residing in the US.

So it doesn't look like you can, no.

By all means speak with a lawyer if you want more information but it doesn't appear that you fulfil the requirements. Sorry

I don't follow why you think he doesn't fulfill the requirements.

It is important to note that this kind of citizenship is automatic. His mother was a citizen from the moment that her parents became citizens, even if she never obtained documentation.

If his mother was present in the US for the right amount of time, he became a citizen when he was born. (Note, if she was really 19 when she moved to Canada, she probably satisfies the five-year requirement, because it is five years after attaining the age of 14, so she had five years of presence at the time she turned 19, provided she wasn't out of the country in that time. Similarly, unless she was out of the country a lot, 7-19 would cover 10 years.)

The N-600 is NOT an "application for citizenship" it is an Application for Certificate of Citizenship. The issue of "under 18" refers to when the parent obtains citizenship, not when the N-600 is filed.

[NickD 203]

What's missing here is either the birth certificate of the mother or her naturalization papers plus the birth certificate of the OP. They are all dated, obviously, if the mom as a born someplace in the USA, even in Illinois, that would predate the birth certificate of the OP. If the last names don't correspondent due to marriages, divorces a link has to be provided to hook her maiden name to her kids name. Could be problems if that link with legalized documents cannot be had.

Never name your kid Donald Duck if your surname is Mouse. If naturalized, that date must precede the birth of the kid.

With that documentation in hand, can either apply for a N-600 OR a US passport and see what happens.

Seems like this thread is getting overly complex.

[sunny808 1]

The Child Citizenship Act of 2000 does not apply to OP. The laws of derivative citizenship at the time of OP's birth are what counts and summarized in that chart I posted a link to. If I'm not mistaken the OP was born when her mother, married then, was 28 (in 1978) so, to clarify, OP's mother must have been physically present in the U.S. for a total of 5 years between the ages of 14 and 28. Documentation is key and based on observation, travel to and from Canada is not very well documented since there are no entry and exit stamps on passports in many cases.

[janurabi 0]

SUNNY808 here are the answers to your questions:

1. My mother turned 19 on Aug. 8/69, she left for Canada the next day as my parents were married on Aug. 10/6…lol. Talk about cutting it close. She's 60 now and just discovered all this.

2. Yes my mother has been to the states numerous times since 1969.

3. I believe we can provide enough documentation. We can definitely get our hands on it since my Mother has kept everything. AND I MEAN EVERYTHING! Pack rat pays off sometimes. It's all dependent on what will satisfy the American Consulate.

Thanks very much guys for all your input. I would fall under the category of child born to one citizen and one alien parent. My folks were and are still married. I was born in 1978 in Canada. I do have my birth certificate (the original copy).

My mother is a citizen. She's in the process of proving it. She's already met with the U.S. Consulate and is awaiting two pieces of documentation to complete her application for the passport. Her parent's naturalization papers which should be arriving in the next few days and her elementary school records which prove her physical presence.

Just to clarify something, my mother had an alien # (GC) because she was born in Canada and moved to the states at the age of 7. She is obtaining her alien # as further proof of her physical presence as well. I understand that any minor that holds a green card when their parents where naturalized AUTOMATICALLY becomes a citizen, which was the case with my mother. The consulate has all of her documentation and told her all she needed left was the two documents I had previously mentioned.

My parents were married two days after her 19 birthday. Since her family resides in the US, she's spent oodles of time after then especially when my grandmother was dying in 1974 (four years before my birth). I understand that the Consulate evaluates each case on an individual basis. From what my mother describes, they were very nice and helpful people. This is the Calgary consulate. They flew a representative out here to meet my mother because they are treating her like a U.S. citizen. The Winnipeg Consulate only caters to U.S. citizens living there.

Edited February 5, 2010 by janurabi

[janurabi 0]

I also believe the law of retention was abolished by Congress in 1978.

[sunny808 1]

I also believe the law of retention was abolished by Congress in 1978.

Sounds like you don't have the burden of waiting for naturalization like the rest of us lol. I guess congratulations are in order and you can date that back to the day you were born. Good luck and hope it all works out without a hitch.

[sunny808 1]

Oh btw prudent thing to do is consult with consular officials or an attorney.

[janurabi 0]

Thank you sunny. Oh I hope so. I'm not holding my breath but I'm remaining cautiously optimistic. Best of luck to you too. I assume you're awaiting naturalization? I was thinking my only chance was a GC or through employment. When I spoke to an immigration lawyer he urged me to look into derivative citizenship laws and see if it was possible that I derived citizenship at birth. Never thought about it until then. I hope it all works out as I would love the option to chose.

[janurabi 0]

My mom just obtained her U.S. passport. My mom had found out that she had been a U.S. citizen since the day my grandparents became naturalized citizens in 1964. My mom was 14 years old and had a Green Card at the time. By law, according to the Calgary Consulate, of the time says any minor with a Green Card automatically becomes a citizen once the parents are naturalized. Now I'm just wondering, since she would've been a citizen since the day her parents were naturalized, is it possible that I may have derived citizenship from birth? I was born November 15, 1978 and my parents were married. Mom does fullfill the physical presence requirement that falls under law that refers to my year of birth.

I've been trying to consult with the Department of State and USCIS but either doesn't seem to know anything about anything. My mother encountered this same frustration when she first began looking into her situation. USCIS even went so far as to tell my mom that there's no way she's a citizen. And yet, the Calgary consulate total contradicted that and treated her like one even before approving her passport application.

My parents are telling me it's probably best to deal with the Consulate directly since USCIS initially had misinformed my mother and the State Department is telling me that since my mother wasn't herself naturalized that there's no way I could claim it through her and there's no way of verifying that she was a citizen at the time of my birth. But there IS verification, my grandparent's naturalization papers and my mother's alien #, such and such. Otherwise the Consulate would never have approved my mother for a passport. The State Department also commented that if I was going through my Grandparents that I would have to contact immigration. When I contacted USCIS about this they didn't seem to understand why the State Department would even suggest that. I believe the retention law was abolished in 1978 by Congress. My mom resided in the States for 10 years until her 19 birthday. It is a bit of a complex case which is not cut and dry.

Anybody know anything about this? I understand this is a bit of a complex case but I just wanna know if it's possible

Edited March 3, 2010 by janurabi

[VanessaTony 3,567]

My mom just obtained her U.S. passport. My mom had found out that she had been a U.S. citizen since the day my grandparents became naturalized citizens in 1964. My mom was 14 years old and had a Green Card at the time. By law, according to the Calgary Consulate, of the time says any minor with a Green Card automatically becomes a citizen once the parents are naturalized. Now I'm just wondering, since she would've been a citizen since the day her parents were naturalized, is it possible that I may have derived citizenship from birth? I was born November 15, 1978 and my parents were married. Mom does fullfill the physical presence requirement that falls under law that refers to my year of birth.

I've been trying to consult with the Department of State and USCIS but either doesn't seem to know anything about anything. My mother encountered this same frustration when she first began looking into her situation. USCIS even went so far as to tell my mom that there's no way she's a citizen. And yet, the Calgary consulate total contradicted that and treated her like one even before approving her passport application.

My parents are telling me it's probably best to deal with the Consulate directly since USCIS initially had misinformed my mother and the State Department is telling me that since my mother wasn't herself naturalized that there's no way I could claim it through her and there's no way of verifying that she was a citizen at the time of my birth. But there IS verification, my grandparent's naturalization papers and my mother's alien #, such and such. Otherwise the Consulate would never have approved my mother for a passport. The State Department also commented that if I was going through my Grandparents that I would have to contact immigration. And I believe the retention law was abolished in 1978 by Congress. My mom resided in the States for 10 years until her 19 birthday. It is a bit of a complex case which is not cut and dry.

Anybody know anything about this? I understand this is a bit of a complex case but I just wanna know if it's possible

You asked this already. http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=240603