How to file as Stateless???

[v333k 59]

Hello everyone!

I just got approved for ROC, so I still have half a year left before I am eligible for natz.

When I did my AOS, we hired a lawyer to do it for us and he filed my status as Stateless. At that time, I didn't really bother to ask how he did that, and just went with his word. Now, that my next step is natz, I would like to know what to fill in my application so that I keep my Stateless status.

Does anyone have any idea about this?

Thanks in advance!

[lucyrich 20]

would like to know what to fill in my application so that I keep my Stateless status.

Well, the whole point of filing naturalization is to get rid of your stateless status, no? You want to become a citizen of the US, right?

Anyway, I haven't run across this before, but why wouldn't you just write "Stateless" in part 3, box E?

[antda 13]

Hello everyone!

I just got approved for ROC, so I still have half a year left before I am eligible for natz.

When I did my AOS, we hired a lawyer to do it for us and he filed my status as Stateless. At that time, I didn't really bother to ask how he did that, and just went with his word. Now, that my next step is natz, I would like to know what to fill in my application so that I keep my Stateless status.

Does anyone have any idea about this?

Thanks in advance!

Hi V333k,

If you don't mind me asking, how exactly did you become "stateless"?....I'm kind of confused here...lol...

Surely you must have some country that you used to belong to? Lol...Where did you immigrate from, for example?

I don't know the answer to your "stateless" question...

But I can tell you....On your citizenship certificate, it will have a space for "former country of citizenship" on it....

So you're going to have to fill in something....

For my situation...I was born in one country (but have no citizenship status in such), have Canadaian citizenship through naturalization, and recently became an American citizen through naturalization...

So yes, that caused some problems too......lol......

And when I applied for American citizenship, I explained to them in writing that I wanted "Canada" (my former country of citizenship) on it...

And they were ok with that......and simply put "Canada" (and not any other country) as my "former country" with no problems...

So for your situation, maybe you can do a similar thing...

On the application form...write "stateless" and explain further in writing about such....

I figure...If they put that on your green card, as "stateless" (lol..I never knew that was an option...darn..)...Then why not on a citizenship certificate?

Lol..Now if I were to lose my foreign birth certificate, Canadian citizenship certificate/card, and American citizenship certificate....

I would be "stateless"....lol.......

If I ever lose those documents.....I don't even know where to begin to replace them all!....lol....It's nearly impossible to do such without problems!

It would definitely cost a fortune, a lot of time, etc.....lol...

So yeah..I keep those papers safe...And pray that I never become "stateless" ........

Hope this helps...(or makes you laugh anyways). Good luck on your journey too.

Ant

Edited February 5, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[NickD 202]

OP could be an alien from outer space or any of the following, There is a legal definition of Statelessness, perhaps due to lack of documentation and not really a refugee, as it is know which countries they came from. We that went through the N-400 know it's like starting from fresh, all that stuff we went through, seems to be have forgotten. And they want to see things like birth certificates, Baptism certificates, or an affidavit from witnesses to show your place of birth. Apparently the OP had to use an attorney to come here, can only suggest he use that attorney again. I sure wouldn't like to explain this to the caliber of people I met at the USCIS, can't even answer a simple question.

"

What is Statelessness?

The term “statelessness” is at once both clear and ambiguous. It unmistakably describes the situation of a person who is stateless or, in other words, without a state to call his own. Indeed the word was contrived to describe a person who cannot enjoy the protection of any state. But how do we determine which of the many scenarios whereby a person finds himself without a state’s protection should properly be depicted as statelessness?

When the expression stateless first entered the scene, this question was not all that pressing or even relevant. During the first half of the 20^th century, statelessness was simply an abstract term used to describe the factual situation of any and all unprotected persons. It was only when an international legal framework was put in place to attribute certain rights to the unprotected - following a report entitled the “Study of Statelessness” that was compiled after the Second World War – that labels started to truly matter. Two categories of unprotected persons whose paths had initially been intertwined then went their separate ways: the refugee and the stateless person. And so an international legal definition of statelessness came into being. A stateless person is “a person who is not considered as a national by any State under the operation of its law” (Article 1 of the 1954 Convention relating to the Status of Stateless Persons).

You would be forgiven for thinking that the elaboration of an international definition of statelessness would have provided a decisive answer to the question formulated above. However, the scope of the definition is regrettably narrow - covering only those who are legally or de jure stateless - and does not include the many, similarly-situated, unprotected persons who have not formally lost their bond of nationality. So the international community also set to work with a second sub-category of statelessness: de facto statelessness. Over time, this expression has been used to describe an expanding set of problems. Today, anyone who is unable to establish their nationality or whose nationality is either disputed or ineffective may be considered de facto stateless. As a result, the term “statelessness” is once again being used to describe a wide variety of unprotected persons.

It is within this context that the question posed above resurfaces. Is “stateless” an appropriate name for any or all of the categories of unprotected persons that are now emerging into the international arena such as undocumented persons, irregular migrants, stranded migrants, victims of people smuggling or trafficking and a plethora of displaced persons who do not fall under the definition of a refugee? Moreover, if we are defining statelessness to include those who lack an effective nationality, how do we determine where a “regular” human rights violation ends and a problem of statelessness begins? And more fundamentally, if we are interested in the quality of treatment rather than the mere legal fact of nationality, how relevant is nationality today as a measure of protection? Or, should we revert instead to the formal legal definition of statelessness to which international law attaches rights and benefits, thereby opening a path to debate the appropriateness of this protection and the need to rethink the overall response to today’s (other) unprotected persons? Finally, how do we reconcile these conceptual questions with the reality on the ground: that it is increasingly difficult to distinguish between supposedly different categories of unprotected persons?

With “stateless” still proving to be an attractive umbrella term for people who are without the protection of any state, one of the aims of the Observatory is to encourage and support research that seeks to answer these and other questions relating to the conceptual and practical difficulties of defining statelessness.

Laura van Waas" http://www.nationalityforall.org/whatis

[NickD 202]

Wife didn't like when they put her country of origin on both her certificate and passport as Colombia, because all those people there are labeled as drug dealers. She was a citizen of Venezuela, that was ignored.

Could only tell her, nobody asked you or me for that matter, where, when, who's parents we should have when being born, we were just kind of dumped here. Improved relations with Colombia with dissolving relations with Venezuela is helping her with that.

Sounds like statelessness would be an ideal solution.

Could be worse, could have been born in Africa in the 18th century and brought here as slaves, or born Jewish in Nazi Germany, did any of us have a say when or where we were born? But always running into donkey pits, a nice word for a$$holes that make an issue out of it. It's you, the person that counts.

The field is leveling now, but my step-daughter ran into prejudicial problems in that God awful place they call, high school, so much for Welcome to the USA. As you can see, this left a bad taste in my mouth.

[freetv 7]

Wife didn't like when they put her country of origin on both her certificate and passport as Colombia, because all those people there are labeled as drug dealers. She was a citizen of Venezuela, that was ignored.

Could only tell her, nobody asked you or me for that matter, where, when, who's parents we should have when being born, we were just kind of dumped here. Improved relations with Colombia with dissolving relations with Venezuela is helping her with that.

Sounds like statelessness would be an ideal solution.

Could be worse, could have been born in Africa in the 18th century and brought here as slaves, or born Jewish in Nazi Germany, did any of us have a say when or where we were born? But always running into donkey pits, a nice word for a$$holes that make an issue out of it. It's you, the person that counts.

The field is leveling now, but my step-daughter ran into prejudicial problems in that God awful place they call, high school, so much for Welcome to the USA. As you can see, this left a bad taste in my mouth.

I have heard that you can omit the "place of birth" on your passport... but that by doing so a handful of countries will say its invalid. Leaving it out might be good if you end up getting a E.U. passport and want to go to North Korea or Iran etc. I don't know why they put it on there anyway....... I mean so many people are born in some country and never spend more than a few days or weeks there. Lol, my cousin's passport would say Germany... but he hasn't been there in some 20 years.

[NickD 202]

I have heard that you can omit the "place of birth" on your passport... but that by doing so a handful of countries will say its invalid. Leaving it out might be good if you end up getting a E.U. passport and want to go to North Korea or Iran etc. I don't know why they put it on there anyway....... I mean so many people are born in some country and never spend more than a few days or weeks there. Lol, my cousin's passport would say Germany... but he hasn't been there in some 20 years.

My passport says, Illinois, USA, for those that don't know that Illinois is a state in the USA. Was only born there, should have had a talk with my mom before being born.

[antda 13]

OP could be an alien from outer space or any of the following, There is a legal definition of Statelessness, perhaps due to lack of documentation and not really a refugee, as it is know which countries they came from. We that went through the N-400 know it's like starting from fresh, all that stuff we went through, seems to be have forgotten. And they want to see things like birth certificates, Baptism certificates, or an affidavit from witnesses to show your place of birth. Apparently the OP had to use an attorney to come here, can only suggest he use that attorney again. I sure wouldn't like to explain this to the caliber of people I met at the USCIS, can't even answer a simple question.

NickD-Thanks for explaining how one can be "stateless" for immigration proceeses......Now I understand it better...

I agree, going through each stage of the immigration process is like starting all over again.....As if they didn't have the paperwork from before...

Oh and to add insult to injury....They do have the former information (lol...it was a shock to see my entire immigration file....3-4 inches thick at my citizenship interview)......I guess they are just too lazy to look up the information for themselves all over again...lol....

To the OP-Yes, I suggest you use your attorney again....Either that, or explain in detail as to why you want to go "stateless" again....

Wife didn't like when they put her country of origin on both her certificate and passport as Colombia, because all those people there are labeled as drug dealers. She was a citizen of Venezuela, that was ignored.

Could only tell her, nobody asked you or me for that matter, where, when, who's parents we should have when being born, we were just kind of dumped here. Improved relations with Colombia with dissolving relations with Venezuela is helping her with that.

Sounds like statelessness would be an ideal solution.

Could be worse, could have been born in Africa in the 18th century and brought here as slaves, or born Jewish in Nazi Germany, did any of us have a say when or where we were born? But always running into donkey pits, a nice word for a$$holes that make an issue out of it. It's you, the person that counts.

The field is leveling now, but my step-daughter ran into prejudicial problems in that God awful place they call, high school, so much for Welcome to the USA. As you can see, this left a bad taste in my mouth.

NickD- Wow....I know what you mean about your wife's situation here.....As likewise, I felt the same way too...(lol..though I'm not from Columbia/Venezuela)....I agree, we can't choose where we are/were born...(or if we wanted to be born for that matter..lol..). So I guess we just all have to live with our parents' decision that way....Sigh...And yes, I agree, it is the person themselves, and not the person's place of birth that really counts!...Too bad immigration officials can't see that....lol...Hope your daughter doesn't face too much discrimination because of that either...

As for your wife's citizenship certificate....Maybe you can ask for an ammendment to that or something to show her former country as Venezeula instead of Columbia? It would cost money/time to do such though...But if your wife wants to pursue it....I think it can be done....

Lol..In my case, I INSISTED that they put Canada (my former country of citizenship) on my US citizenship certificate instead of my former birth country.....

It worked out for the best...As they did put "Canada" on it....lol...(as I mentioned too..that I would not want US citizenship if this was stated incorrectly..lol..)

Too bad though...that I can't travel with such a document...Would be a lot easier than applying for a US passport..lol...

I have heard that you can omit the "place of birth" on your passport... but that by doing so a handful of countries will say its invalid. Leaving it out might be good if you end up getting a E.U. passport and want to go to North Korea or Iran etc. I don't know why they put it on there anyway....... I mean so many people are born in some country and never spend more than a few days or weeks there. Lol, my cousin's passport would say Germany... but he hasn't been there in some 20 years.

Freetv-Lol...Yes, the "place of birth" can be omitted on a Canadian passport.....I have done that, and on my Canadian passport there is a "blank" on it...

No problem with the Canadian side of things...Not sure how they would handle this on the US side......

Can this be done on an American passport? If that is the case then I'm seriously considering getting a US passport in the future.....

I agree, I don't know why they put "place of birth" on a passport...as one is a citizen of a current country, then what is the relevance of a former country listed? Personally, I think this is some form of discrimination....even though they say it's for identification purposes...yeah right...lol....

Lol..I agree too, I was born in my birth country..and haven't been back since...oh about 25+ years ago..lol....Heck, I don't even speak/write/read that language anymore and I'm not even a citizen of that country anymore....Gosh knows what would happen if I ever had to get a replacement birth certificate...What an international nightmare...

Freetv...You've given me new hope as to how a country of birth can be omitted.....Thanks for suggesting such.......

Ok...Everyone..On a serious note....

Can one really go "stateless" on a US passport? Lol....It sure would save me a lot of travel problems this way......

Is there any information (online or otherwise) supporting that this can be done? Would appreciate such...Thanks...

Ant

Edited February 5, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[antda 13]

My passport says, Illinois, USA, for those that don't know that Illinois is a state in the USA. Was only born there, should have had a talk with my mom before being born.

.....Yes Illinois is a state...A state in the USA! So you're an Illionisian (or whatever they call people from Illinois).....lol.....

And thus, that is your place of birth..

Btw..(off-topic here)...umm...You might want to 'update' your VJ profile....I don't think you're removing conditions still.....

Ant

Edited February 5, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[freetv 7]

I will see if I can find it... I remember about a year ago some guy posted that he got a u.s. passport without the place of birth... but like I said its been awhile. You must really dislike your country of birth... mind if I ask where it was?

[antda 13]

I will see if I can find it... I remember about a year ago some guy posted that he got a u.s. passport without the place of birth... but like I said its been awhile. You must really dislike your country of birth... mind if I ask where it was?

Freetv-Thanks...That definitely gives me hope there...that this can be done... (and yes, send the link if you can....thanks)

Lol..Hope it wasn't one of my former posts...when I said it could be done on the Canadian passport...lol.....

I would rather not state what it is here on VJ...don't want to offend anyone here...

But yeah..for me it's a personal choice...I feel as though I'm more "Canadian" (and now "American") than anything else.....

I grew up in Canada....I'm growing up in the USA....Can't relate to my birth country.......lol...

And it causes more problems when travelling and for identification purposes...lol....

Two countries is enough...No need to confuse it with a third one...lol....

Ant

Edited February 5, 2010 by Ant+D+BabyA

[v333k 59]

Hi everyone! Thanks for your replies

Just to clear up a few things...

1. No, I didn't need an attorney to come into the US because I am from outer space I entered the US on a student visa, met my wife (girl-friend then) and got married.

2. I am not trying to claim no country of birth, but the nationality I have in my passport is wrong and it is only serving a political purpose.

3. I think what my attorney did was he claimed my nationality as "stateless" and not country of birth - my GC shows country of Birth.

:dance:

Still celebrating my ROC approval!!!

[v333k 59]

Just to clarify something I said below:

2. I am not trying to claim no country of birth, but the nationality I have in my passport is wrong and it is only serving a political purpose.

What I mean to say is that the country issuing the passport lists me under a different nationality so the statistics would favor them politically, and not me. Obviously, that I am asking about it here and getting my attorney to change it for me means that I am not happy where I used to stand and would like to see if I can correct it.

Hi everyone! Thanks for your replies

Just to clear up a few things...

1. No, I didn't need an attorney to come into the US because I am from outer space I entered the US on a student visa, met my wife (girl-friend then) and got married.

2. I am not trying to claim no country of birth, but the nationality I have in my passport is wrong and it is only serving a political purpose.

3. I think what my attorney did was he claimed my nationality as "stateless" and not country of birth - my GC shows country of Birth.

:dance:

Still celebrating my ROC approval!!!

[NickD 202]

Just to clarify something I said below:

2. I am not trying to claim no country of birth, but the nationality I have in my passport is wrong and it is only serving a political purpose.

What I mean to say is that the country issuing the passport lists me under a different nationality so the statistics would favor them politically, and not me. Obviously, that I am asking about it here and getting my attorney to change it for me means that I am not happy where I used to stand and would like to see if I can correct it.

Assume you are talking about your foreign passport, wouldn't that be history after your USC and US passport? Guess we never thought about place of birth, USCiS never really asked my wife to my knowledge where she wanted to be born or to change it, just never was an issue, but since they had a copy of her birth certificate with Colombia on it, they used that for her certificate and the DOS copied that for her passport. She's a green-eyed redhead that burns very easily in the sun of German descent, so really doesn't meet the typical Colombian profile we see in movies all the time when it comes to drug dealers. I don't care if she was born in Colombia and nobody else's opinion counts in my view. Her daughter for whatever reason has black hair, but green eyes, she is a knock out by USA standards and speaks perfect English, she is no longer having problems in college, but didn't speak a word of English when she first came here. She loves the USA and looking forward to USC just to get rid of that green card and getting a US passport.

Yeah, I get e-mails from VJ to update my time line, have to look into that, one of these days. But that will be for a wife, a daughter, and an unmarried son over 21.

[v333k 59]

Assume you are talking about your foreign passport, wouldn't that be history after your USC and US passport? Guess we never thought about place of birth, USCiS never really asked my wife to my knowledge where she wanted to be born or to change it, just never was an issue, but since they had a copy of her birth certificate with Colombia on it, they used that for her certificate and the DOS copied that for her passport. She's a green-eyed redhead that burns very easily in the sun of German descent, so really doesn't meet the typical Colombian profile we see in movies all the time when it comes to drug dealers. I don't care if she was born in Colombia and nobody else's opinion counts in my view. Her daughter for whatever reason has black hair, but green eyes, she is a knock out by USA standards and speaks perfect English, she is no longer having problems in college, but didn't speak a word of English when she first came here. She loves the USA and looking forward to USC just to get rid of that green card and getting a US passport.

Yeah, I get e-mails from VJ to update my time line, have to look into that, one of these days. But that will be for a wife, a daughter, and an unmarried son over 21.

I guess you are correct at this point. I can't really change the country of birth, and whatever documents I am holding now are going to be history so it doesn't matter what nationality the document says. The only thing I would like is to stay consistent with my application and the information I provide.

I'll talk to my lawyer and will inform you guys!