"The Crime of Lebanon and Palestine"

[Ban Hammer 13,133]

On Wednesday, July 12, a Hezbollah unit attacked two armored Jeeps of the Israeli army, patrolling along Israel's border with Lebanon. Three Israeli soldiers were killed in the attack and two were taken hostage.

The Israeli government, however, did not give a single moment for diplomacy...

Wonder why Israel didn't react diplomatically to Hezbollah's apparently "diplomatic" efforts. Oh wait, in terms of Hezbollah diplomacy, it actually did. Diplomacy is quite obviously not a language Hezbollah speaks.

the best laid plans of mice and men.......

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

On Wednesday, July 12, a Hezbollah unit attacked two armored Jeeps of the Israeli army, patrolling along Israel's border with Lebanon. Three Israeli soldiers were killed in the attack and two were taken hostage.

The Israeli government, however, did not give a single moment for diplomacy...

Wonder why Israel didn't react diplomatically to Hezbollah's apparently "diplomatic" efforts. Oh wait, in terms of Hezbollah diplomacy, it actually did. Diplomacy is quite obviously not a language Hezbollah speaks.

the best laid plans of mice and men.......

Exactly: They don't like being talked to in the language of their own choosing, Fcuking cry-babies! Let them have a good long taste of their own medicine. It'll kill them!

[mawilson 2,133]

And yet no one has come up with a single argument against the points made by the author of the article.

Nothing to argue about -- the facts are indisputable but it's rather silly to suggest that

Israel should have tried "diplomacy" first. Why didn't Hezbollah try "diplomacy" first?

Why should Israel allow themselves to be blackmailed into releasing convicted criminals?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

On Wednesday, July 12, a Hezbollah unit attacked two armored Jeeps of the Israeli army, patrolling along Israel's border with Lebanon. Three Israeli soldiers were killed in the attack and two were taken hostage.

The Israeli government, however, did not give a single moment for diplomacy...

Wonder why Israel didn't react diplomatically to Hezbollah's apparently "diplomatic" efforts. Oh wait, in terms of Hezbollah diplomacy, it actually did. Diplomacy is quite obviously not a language Hezbollah speaks.

This quote has been misattributed to me; actually, the words are Tanya Reinhard's.

Anyway, from your response, it seems you did not read the article very closely.

So let us take a quick review of the points Professor Reinhard makes. She says:

1. That Lebanon and Israel have a long-standing dispute over the Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms.

2. That the Israeli Prime Minister stated that Hezbollah's capture of the 2 Israeli soldiers was "not" a terror attack, but the action of a sovereign state -- the Lebanese government -- and stated that the Lebanese state (and, by proxy, people) would bear the consequences.

3. That cross-border "incidents" and cease-fire violations between Hezbollah and the Israeli army have been a frequent occurrence, initiated by both sides, but more often by Israel.

4. That Israel's massive assault on Lebanon was not only a disproportionate response to the capture of its 2 soldiers, but was actually planned well before Hezbollah's raid, and that Israel was just waiting for the right "excuse" to begin.

5. That Hezbollah's fight against Israel is based on Israel's occupation of Lebanese territory, as well as the ongoing brutal oppression of the Palestinian people.

6. That Israel's founders expressed the "vision" of taking Lebanese territory up to the point of the Litani river, a very valuable water source.

7. That before Israel could hope to annex this land, the Lebanese people living there would have to be driven out.

and she finally concludes by dropping the biggest bombshell of all:

8. That Israel's assault on Lebanon is not a response to the capture of its soldiers or a "war against terrorists" at all, but rather part of Israel's ongoing scheme to destroy the Lebanese government, along with any resistance groups, and replace it with one that will allow Israel to achieve its goals.

So it is clear -- given this scenario, as outlined by the professor, there is indeed no reason for Israel to negotiate.

Rather Israel would want to continue on its military assault, which is intended to destroy the nationalist government of Lebanon (along with any resistance groups -- most obviously Hezbollah -- who might oppose the Israeli plan,) and drive Lebanon's people out of the territory that Israel covets, to make way for Israeli control of that land.

And yet no one has come up with a single argument against the points made by the author of the article.

Nothing to argue about -- the facts are indisputable but it's rather silly to suggest that

Israel should have tried "diplomacy" first. Why didn't Hezbollah try "diplomacy" first?

Why should Israel allow themselves to be blackmailed into releasing convicted criminals?

Thank you. You have admitted the truth. The facts are indisputable. Israel's goals cannot be met by trying "diplomacy."

And the rest of the subterfuge about "terror" and "blackmail" and all the rest of the absurd excuses given by Israel are just smoke and mirrors to win the acquiescence (and tax dollars and political support) of the well-intentioned but woefully uninformed citizenry of the U.S., who -- thanks to the constant bombardment of Zionist propaganda from an almost completely pro-Israeli mainstream media -- just don't have a clue about what's really going on in the Middle East.

[mawilson 2,133]

1. That Lebanon and Israel have a long-standing dispute over the Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms.

True, but Hezbollah didn't kidnap the soldiers hoping to get the Shebaa Farms back.

Shebaa Farms haven't been mentioned once as a reason for their attack since the

beginning of the conflict. They admitted to kidnapping the soldiers for sole purpose

of securing the release of their men imprisoned in Israel; indeed it seems they care

more about their men than their country.

3. That cross-border "incidents" and cease-fire violations between Hezbollah and the Israeli army have been a frequent occurrence, initiated by both sides, but more often by Israel.

The last statement is pure speculation on her part.

5. That Hezbollah's fight against Israel is based on Israel's occupation of Lebanese territory, as well as the ongoing brutal oppression of the Palestinian people.

I keep hearing this excuse but what does Hezbollah have to do with the oppression

of the Palestinian people, a problem internal to Israel/Palestine? Whether they

wanted to express solidarity with the Palestinian people or simply divert Israel's

attention from Gaza by starting another war, Israel's occupation of Palestine doesn't

make Hezbollah's attack any more legitimate.

6. That Israel's founders expressed the "vision" of taking Lebanese territory up to the point of the Litani river, a very valuable water source.

Doesn't prove anything -- who cares what Israel's founders had wanted? Things have changed.

7. That before Israel could hope to annex this land, the Lebanese people living there would have to be driven out.

and she finally concludes by dropping the biggest bombshell of all:

8. That Israel's assault on Lebanon is not a response to the capture of its soldiers or a "war against terrorists" at all, but rather part of Israel's ongoing scheme to destroy the Lebanese government, along with any resistance groups, and replace it with one that will allow Israel to achieve its goals.

More speculation and conspiracy theories.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

On Wednesday, July 12, a Hezbollah unit attacked two armored Jeeps of the Israeli army, patrolling along Israel's border with Lebanon. Three Israeli soldiers were killed in the attack and two were taken hostage.

The Israeli government, however, did not give a single moment for diplomacy...

Wonder why Israel didn't react diplomatically to Hezbollah's apparently "diplomatic" efforts. Oh wait, in terms of Hezbollah diplomacy, it actually did. Diplomacy is quite obviously not a language Hezbollah speaks.

This quote has been misattributed to me; actually, the words are Tanya Reinhard's.

Anyway, from your response, it seems you did not read the article very closely.

I don't need to read that jabber closely. Thank you. Hezbollah and those that harbor them have no entitlement to any diplomatic approach whatsoever. They killed and kidnapped Isreali soldiers on and from Israeli territory in an effort to extort the realease of convicted criminals from the Israeli government. Period. All the rest of your post is smoke and mirrors. Again, diplomacy is a language Hezbollah and their supporters simply do not speak. Explosions and destruction is their vocabulary. And they are being spoken to in their language at this point. Seems that they do not enjoy the sound of it when spoken to but only when speaking.

Edited July 30, 2006 by ET-US2004

[Identity 0]

Jerks.

[Identity 0]

Favourite method of dealing with muslim-inspired aggression.

[Melo 1]

This conflict was started by Hezbollah - the capture and murder of Israeli soldiers was a provocation. If they did not know this would be the result then they incredibly stupid. The fact that the Government of Lebanon has stood by and allowed Hezbollah to do as it pleases shows that the Government is weak and ineffectual. I won't blame Israel for their response. The responsibility for what is going on lies firmly with Hezbollah.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

1. That Lebanon and Israel have a long-standing dispute over the Israeli-occupied Shebaa Farms.

True, but Hezbollah didn't kidnap the soldiers hoping to get the Shebaa Farms back.

Shebaa Farms haven't been mentioned once as a reason for their attack since the

beginning of the conflict. They admitted to kidnapping the soldiers for sole purpose

of securing the release of their men imprisoned in Israel; indeed it seems they care

more about their men than their country.

Since its formation, Hezbollah has been unwavering in its demand that Israel remove itself from occupied Lebanese (and Palestinian) territory. The prisoner exchange is a part of Hezbollah’s demands, but the liberation of Israeli-occupied Arab lands is Hezbollah's raison d'etre. And you know this.

Siniora's cabinet agenda echoes Hezbollah's demands - that Israel release Lebanese prisoners in Israeli jails, and return Shebaa Farms to Lebanese control.

By your own logic, you might rather deduce that Israel cares more for the destruction of the Lebanese people and Lebanon's infrastructure than it does about retrieving its men -- Israel has indiscriminately rained bombs all over Southern Lebanon, and in the process quite possibly striking their own men that they are “supposedly” trying to rescue.

3. That cross-border "incidents" and cease-fire violations between Hezbollah and the Israeli army have been a frequent occurrence, initiated by both sides, but more often by Israel.

The last statement is pure speculation on her part.

Actually, it’s the cold hard truth. Israel has continued its violations of Lebanese territory and airspace on a regular basis. In fact, Israel has been sending warplanes and unmanned drones over Lebanon on an average of about 3 times a week. The U.N. documents violations by each sides. And you know it.

5. That Hezbollah's fight against Israel is based on Israel's occupation of Lebanese territory, as well as the ongoing brutal oppression of the Palestinian people.

I keep hearing this excuse but what does Hezbollah have to do with the oppression

of the Palestinian people, a problem internal to Israel/Palestine? Whether they

wanted to express solidarity with the Palestinian people or simply divert Israel's

attention from Gaza by starting another war, Israel's occupation of Palestine doesn't

make Hezbollah's attack any more legitimate.

Since it's inception, Hezbollah has made it quite clear that they consider Israel’s oppression of the Palestinians as connected to Israel’s aggression against Lebanon.

The IDF slaughtered thousands of Palestinian refugees on Lebanese territory, and enabled the massacres at Sabra and Shatila. Israel has terrorized tens of thousands more, and kidnapped hundreds which were jailed without charge and often tortured. And you know it.

6. That Israel's founders expressed the "vision" of taking Lebanese territory up to the point of the Litani river, a very valuable water source.

Doesn't prove anything -- who cares what Israel's founders had wanted? Things have changed.

Au contraire. The Zionists care very much for their founders’ plans. And you know it.

If you take an objective look at their history, it's obvious that Israel continues to do everything it can to fulfill that original blueprint. Hezbollah is not blind; they can see what Israel has done and keeps doing to the Palestinians, and they know very well that Lebanon is the next target for Zionist expansion.

7. That before Israel could hope to annex this land, the Lebanese people living there would have to be driven out.

and she finally concludes by dropping the biggest bombshell of all:

8. That Israel's assault on Lebanon is not a response to the capture of its soldiers or a "war against terrorists" at all, but rather part of Israel's ongoing scheme to destroy the Lebanese government, along with any resistance groups, and replace it with one that will allow Israel to achieve its goals.

More speculation and conspiracy theories.

Conspiracy ? Again, just look at Israel’s history of blatant expansionism and ethnic cleansing in Palestine. It’s very clear that they intend to continue on this tack -- to create a "Muslim-rein" Jewish state in control of maximum territory, while destroying all indigenous Arab resistance and any nationalist, democratic movement which might threaten absolute Israeli military hegemony in the region.

So far, over the past 30 years, they’ve massacred tens of thousands of Lebanese with a truly frightening disregard for Arab lives, particularly the lives of children. And you know it.

Israel's current campaign of terror is intended to kill as many Lebanese civilians as necessary in order to frighten hundreds of thousands more people into fleeing their homes, so that Israel can have free reign to fulfill its plan to prevent them from ever returning -- destroying their homes, their villages, their farms, their infrastructure -- making sure nothing is left that might support Arab life to ever return to South Lebanon.

Anyway, Israel has already gone public with its "new" plan to occupy the area up to (surprise !) the Litani River.

[mawilson 2,133]

Au contraire. The Zionists care very much for their founders’ plans. And you know it.

Ok. Let's assume for a moment that you're right. Who are these "Zionists" scheming and

plotting all day long? The Knesset? The Government of Israel? The Army? Who is behind

the Zionist master plan for world domination? The security cabinet authorises all army

decisions -- are they "the bad guys"? Do all elected officials have a secret book they pass

around that contains everything they need to know? Don't you think this conspiracy would

be somewhat difficult to hide in a country where the elected government officials are

transparent in their functions and daily activities?

[Risto 0]

WOM you are the most anti-American and anti-Semite person I have come across...

I guess it correlates with pumping her a$$