Pentagon to rank global warming as destabilising force

[Peikko 1,575]

Actually party lines are very important. Other countries are on board and most of them are in Europe that has very little hydrocarbons to burn of their own and has to import most of their fuel. It would behoove them to have the U.S. have to spend a lot to switch over to what they have to do to fuel. It is more expensive their way of having to do it and our way is cheaper and that makes their output at a cost advantage more than us so of course they want to even the playing field.

That's just rubbish, pure unadulterated rubbish.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Since water vapor is by far the largest greenhouse gas on the Earth, and since the Earth is mostly water covered, it is easy to see why the response of water to perturbations in the level and distribution of Solar insolation would be most important in the shift from glacial ages to interglacial periods. Reasonable arguments can be made for a strong positive feedback of water vapor to explain the rapid temperature increase during the transition. It is clear that such feedbacks are self-limiting, since the increase stops. However, the possible claim that the much smaller CO2 contribution, which even lags the sharp initial rise by many years, can then cause an even stronger positive feedback defies logic.

A recent significant increase of CO2, possibly with a large anthropogenic input, still results in a total less than 7% of the atmospheric greenhouse gas effect. Only about 1/3 of that is in the increase over the claimed "natural" levels. It is posited that this can somehow override the water vapor self-limiting mechanism by triggering a small increase in temperature to thus release more water vapor and supercharge a temperature rise to several times the direct effect of the CO2 itself. Since the self-limiting mechanism for the water vapor is present, this does not follow logically. Actual temperature changes have many drivers, but CO2 does not appear to be a significant driver at the levels or variations in levels present, and certainly can't have the amplifying effect claimed.

[FortLaudy 10]

There's a reason for that. The Right Wingers here help perpetuate the Manufactured Doubt Industry's lie that Global Warming is a hoax. These are the same people that disputed that acid rain was bad or that smoking causes lung cancer.

There are plenty of innovations happening right now, all over the world that are moving us toward renewable energy and away from fossil fuels. In the meantime, the fossil fuel industry will continue to drum up people into believing that global warming isn't real or that there is a dispute when scientifically there is no argument. It's funny to see the number of Right Wingers here (Bill, Danno and others) continually post propaganda to the contrary.

As a foreigner I just don't get it, it makes common sense to be energy independant from other countries, and at being so, moving towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels, Duh. This should have nothing to do with politics, or even whether global warming is real or not, it's simple common sense.

[luckytxn 2,264]

That's just rubbish, pure unadulterated rubbish.

Ok you lose. Next!!!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

And many climatologists are in agreement that global warming is bunk. The climatologists that you are agreeing with are in institutes that accept funding from the FEDs. They have to toe the line. That is what happened when they just got found out by the "climategate". They have been faking data it is found out for many years and supressing data that does not look advantageous to them. This is a fraud.

Bodies of science are different from individual scientists. Modern scientific breakthroughs and discoveries go through a peer reviewed process. As exciting as it is to watch on the 6 o'clock news that a local science has discovered how to convert water into fuel, until the process is analyzed and peer-reviewed, it is not generally accepted as true. This is something that for some reason, Right Wingers can't seem to wrap their heads around. Imagine a world where anyone with a degree in a particular field of expertise could claim something to be universally true? Welcome to the Manufactured Doubt Industry's tactic. You've been fooled into believing that science works like that and therefore is convoluted and conflicting. Science is methodical and based on very rigid criteria. Scientists can be wrong, but the process itself is not.

[luckytxn 2,264]

As a foreigner I just don't get it, it makes common sense to be energy independant from other countries, and at being so, moving towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels, Duh. This should have nothing to do with politics, or even whether global warming is real or not, it's simple common sense.

And as a foreigner you have been indoctrinated a certain way and when you came here you see a different way and it is puzzling to you. Is this a surprise to you?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

As a foreigner I just don't get it, it makes common sense to be energy independant from other countries, and at being so, moving towards renewable energy and away from fossil fuels, Duh. This should have nothing to do with politics, or even whether global warming is real or not, it's simple common sense.

Our politics are heavily influenced by lobbyists and Big Oil along with Coal have been pumping millions into trying to confuse the public...and they are succeeding. Politicians are paid off by these lobbyists, and some of these politicians have convinced themselves that they are really sticking out for the little guy. This is about Corporate American and its stranglehold on our country.

[FortLaudy 10]

The only surprise is that there seem to be a lack of common sense when talking about the energy crisis.

[FortLaudy 10]

Our politics are heavily influenced by lobbyists and Big Oil along with Coal have been pumping millions into trying to confuse the public...and they are succeeding. Politicians are paid off by these lobbyists, and some of these politicians have convinced themselves that they are really sticking out for the little guy. This is about Corporate American and its stranglehold on our country.

Yes, this is very obvious, so my solution to this is, I'm gonna be damn sure our household is off the grid, and so too the cars asap. If we all do our little part in being less dependent on foreign fossil fuel and promote as much as possible it will hopefully make a difference.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Bodies of science are different from individual scientists. Modern scientific breakthroughs and discoveries go through a peer reviewed process. As exciting as it is to watch on the 6 o'clock news that a local science has discovered how to convert water into fuel, until the process is analyzed and peer-reviewed, it is not generally accepted as true. This is something that for some reason, Right Wingers can't seem to wrap their heads around. Imagine a world where anyone with a degree in a particular field of expertise could claim something to be universally true? Welcome to the Manufactured Doubt Industry's tactic. You've been fooled into believing that science works like that and therefore is convoluted and conflicting. Science is methodical and based on very rigid criteria. Scientists can be wrong, but the process itself is not.

You pretty much answered it all there. Global warming has been proven to be a fake science by being proven that they have falsified data and suppressed reports to show there was doubt to global warming. In a peer driven body of science this would be a huge FAIL. Now how about no more falsification and suppressing of reports of data? This way we can be sure we are getting good science and not manufactured science.

The only surprise is that there seem to be a lack of common sense when talking about the energy crisis.

And from this statement you have just proven that you are close minded to any other ideas. So you lose. Next!!!

[Peikko 1,575]

Ok you lose. Next!!!

Lose? Your perceptions of the world outside of your limited experience are so far off the mark as to be invalid.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For anyone interesting in actually knowing who these bodies of science are: (click on their names to see what they are saying about the significance of climate change)

American Meteorological Society - (AMS) promotes the development and dissemination of information and education on the atmospheric and related oceanic and hydrologic sciences and the advancement of their professional applications. Founded in 1919, the American Meteorological Society has a membership of more than 11,000 professionals, professors, students, and weather enthusiasts. Some members have attained the designation "Certified Consulting Meteorologist (CCM)",^[1] many of whom have expertise in the applied meteorology discipline of atmospheric dispersion modeling. To the general public, however, the AMS is best known for its "Seal of Approval" to television and radio meteorologists. The AMS publishes nine atmospheric and related oceanic and hydrologic journals (in print and online), issues position statements on scientific topics that fall within the scope of their expertise, sponsors more than 12 conferences annually, and offers numerous programs and services. There is also an extensive network of local chapters.

......

American Geophysical Union is a nonprofit organization of geophysicists, consisting of over 50,000 members from over 135 countries. AGU's activities are focused on the organization and dissemination of scientific information in the interdisciplinary and international field of geophysics. The geophysical sciences involve four fundamental areas: atmospheric and ocean sciences; solid-Earth sciences; hydrologic sciences; and space sciences.

The mission of the AGU is

• to promote the scientific study of Earth and its environment in space and to disseminate the results to the public,
  
• to promote cooperation among scientific organizations involved in geophysics and related disciplines,
  
• to initiate and participate in geophysical research programs,
  
• to advance the various geophysical disciplines through scientific discussion, publication, and dissemination of information.
  

..........

American Association for the Advancement of Science is an international non-profit organization with the stated goals of promoting cooperation between scientists, defending scientific freedom, encouraging scientific responsibility, and supporting scientific education and science outreach for the betterment of all humanity. It is the world's largest general scientific society, with 126,995 individual and institutional members at the end of 2008^[1], and publisher of the well-known scientific journal Science, which has a weekly circulation of 138,549^[2].

.......

World Meteorological Organization is an intergovernmental organization with a membership of 188 Member States and Territories. It originated from the International Meteorological Organization (IMO), which was founded in 1873. Established in 1950, WMO became the specialised agency of the United Nations for meteorology (weather and climate), operational hydrology and related geophysical sciences. It has its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. The current president is Alexander Bedritsky and the current Secretary-General is Michel Jarraud.

..............

National Academy of Sciences is a corporation in the United States whose members serve pro bono as "advisers to the nation on science, engineering, and medicine." The National Academy of Sciences is part of the National Academies, which also includes:

• National Academy of Engineering (NAE)
  
• Institute of Medicine (IOM)
  
• National Research Council (NRC)
  

The group holds a congressional charter under Title 36 of the United States Code.

You pretty much answered it all there. Global warming has been proven to be a fake science by being proven that they have falsified data and suppressed reports to show there was doubt to global warming. In a peer driven body of science this would be a huge FAIL. Now how about no more falsification and suppressing of reports of data? This way we can be sure we are getting good science and not manufactured science.

Seriously, if you think that the bodies of science's scientific process is flawed, you have more things to worry about then being paranoid about this being some conspiracy.

Edited February 2, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[luckytxn 2,264]

Our politics are heavily influenced by lobbyists and Big Oil along with Coal have been pumping millions into trying to confuse the public...and they are succeeding. Politicians are paid off by these lobbyists, and some of these politicians have convinced themselves that they are really sticking out for the little guy. This is about Corporate American and its stranglehold on our country.

The same can be said of course of the other side. The money stakes are huge now since the government is paying out many millions to the institutes to maufacture reports that make them look like they are right. The new industries are flush in corporate welfare that jump in to the green industries. If the science and the business are so right and so useful then the government should be able to keep out of it and the industries should thrive.

[luckytxn 2,264]

For anyone interesting in actually knowing who these bodies of science are: (click on their names to see what they are saying about the significance of climate change)

American Meteorological Society - (AMS) promotes the development and dissemination of information and education on the atmospheric and related oceanic and hydrologic sciences and the advancement of their professional applications. Founded in 1919, the American Meteorological Society has a membership of more than 11,000 professionals, professors, students, and weather enthusiasts. Some members have attained the designation "Certified Consulting Meteorologist (CCM)",^[1] many of whom have expertise in the applied meteorology discipline of atmospheric dispersion modeling. To the general public, however, the AMS is best known for its "Seal of Approval" to television and radio meteorologists. The AMS publishes nine atmospheric and related oceanic and hydrologic journals (in print and online), issues position statements on scientific topics that fall within the scope of their expertise, sponsors more than 12 conferences annually, and offers numerous programs and services. There is also an extensive network of local chapters.

......

American Geophysical Union is a nonprofit organization of geophysicists, consisting of over 50,000 members from over 135 countries. AGU's activities are focused on the organization and dissemination of scientific information in the interdisciplinary and international field of geophysics. The geophysical sciences involve four fundamental areas: atmospheric and ocean sciences; solid-Earth sciences; hydrologic sciences; and space sciences.

The mission of the AGU is

• to promote the scientific study of Earth and its environment in space and to disseminate the results to the public,
  
• to promote cooperation among scientific organizations involved in geophysics and related disciplines,
  
• to initiate and participate in geophysical research programs,
  
• to advance the various geophysical disciplines through scientific discussion, publication, and dissemination of information.
  

..........

American Association for the Advancement of Science is an international non-profit organization with the stated goals of promoting cooperation between scientists, defending scientific freedom, encouraging scientific responsibility, and supporting scientific education and science outreach for the betterment of all humanity. It is the world's largest general scientific society, with 126,995 individual and institutional members at the end of 2008^[1], and publisher of the well-known scientific journal Science, which has a weekly circulation of 138,549^[2].

.......

World Meteorological Organization is an intergovernmental organization with a membership of 188 Member States and Territories. It originated from the International Meteorological Organization (IMO), which was founded in 1873. Established in 1950, WMO became the specialised agency of the United Nations for meteorology (weather and climate), operational hydrology and related geophysical sciences. It has its headquarters in Geneva, Switzerland. The current president is Alexander Bedritsky and the current Secretary-General is Michel Jarraud.

..............

National Academy of Sciences is a corporation in the United States whose members serve pro bono as "advisers to the nation on science, engineering, and medicine." The National Academy of Sciences is part of the National Academies, which also includes:

• National Academy of Engineering (NAE)
  
• Institute of Medicine (IOM)
  
• National Research Council (NRC)
  

The group holds a congressional charter under Title 36 of the United States Code.

Seriously, if you think that the bodies of science's scientific process is flawed, you have more things to worry about then being paranoid about this being some conspiracy.

Every one of these receive funding from the FEDs to toe the line. They are either with them are against them. Remember they are using data that has been proven faked and would not look at any reports or data that showed global warming to be false. This is called supression.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Here is a petition form over 31,000 American scientists that say global warming is bunk. There are also some anti global warming articles there too.

http://www.oism.org/pproject/