Flower Power

[Brad and Vika 129]

That's not completely true. A lot of people know the "Can you speak -- insert certain language?" in different languages and know how to answer to that. That doesn't mean they can actually speak the language.

I was told by Lithuanians that every one over the age of 30 probably has a working knowledge of Russian. We found waiters, bankers, hotel employees, and others in their twenties who were all fluent. That is why we started asking why people you meet can't speak Russian. The answer we got consistently was that there was a pretty strong nationalist movement in the country (and Latvia and Estonia too), and the people my ex was questioning probably thought she was Russian. Unless they were also ehtnic Russian, they likely just would rather not converse in that language.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Brad and Vika

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, I've heard that people in the Czech Republic have... issues with Russian.

Strangely enough, I did find Russian useful in Italy, which apparently has a large Ukrainian population. Who knew? Went to a park outside Venice and it was full of babushkas sitting around chatting.

Seems there main issue happened in the spring/summer of 1968 and is still called "Prague Spring"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I had the same experience in Lithuania. There are even schools where kids are taught in Russian (or English) there. People on the street refused to speak Russian. My ex asked several people on the street for directions, asking first if they spoke Russian (the question was in Russian). They all responded "nyet" - so they understood Russian fine, just refused to speak it. Our old town tour guide was Russian, and married to a Lithuanian guy - and her inlaws refused to speak Russian to her, forcing her to speak Lithuanian. Lots of occupation resentment there.

Good thought Gary, but not the direction I usually go at the office

You gotta start Brad...very liberating!

I even ran into places in west Ukraine where they will turn their backs on you and refuse service if you speak Russian. But, well...NM Donetsk is much more "russian friendly"

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yeah, I've heard that people in the Czech Republic have... issues with Russian.

Strangely enough, I did find Russian useful in Italy, which apparently has a large Ukrainian population. Who knew? Went to a park outside Venice and it was full of babushkas sitting around chatting.

Alla also speaks Italian. Enough of her clients (more than 20) were Italian and it was worth her while to learn the language, all the other EU business people used English. A lot of the foreign productys in Ukraine are of Italian manufacture, clothes, shoes, furniture are leading items and the Italians are a big trading partner, so in addition to people being familair with the products, they have a lot of factories that can employ Ukrainians. Ukrainians are basically the Mexicans of Europe and the leading "illegal immigrants" there. Italy is a favorite destination.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Yes?

Pilot error.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That's not completely true. A lot of people know the "Can you speak -- insert certain language?" in different languages and know how to answer to that. That doesn't mean they can actually speak the language.

You understand that if you continue to post here, you will be considered a "RUBer Czech" Just sayin'. You aren't one of those that goes around slapping your forehead and saying "DOH! I could have a RUBer wife!" are you?

[eekee 182]

Alla also speaks Italian. Enough of her clients (more than 20) were Italian and it was worth her while to learn the language, all the other EU business people used English. A lot of the foreign productys in Ukraine are of Italian manufacture, clothes, shoes, furniture are leading items and the Italians are a big trading partner, so in addition to people being familair with the products, they have a lot of factories that can employ Ukrainians. Ukrainians are basically the Mexicans of Europe and the leading "illegal immigrants" there. Italy is a favorite destination.

interesting! I had just assumed that Italy, like Israel and the US, was a popular place for FSU people to have ended up after the Fall.

[slim 1,514]

I grew up with the mentality that if you want something and can do it, you just do it yourself. No big deal. I would help my dad do anything and everything.

That's a pretty American mentality for a young woman to have. Many of the FSU women I've met have this mentality about getting what they want, but it often includes using men to get it and/or get it done. If they want to have a garden, a man must dig it up, move stuff, water the ground, etc., then they'll have their garden. American women will have it done before the guy asks, "what was that you wanted me to do?" at half-time.

Oh, Alla is prissy, she has no problemns with bugs, dirt, greasy lawn mowers, putting gasoline in cars and other such horrible things. She has a husband for that. I make no bones about it and also do not consider it negative

I do consider it a negative because although my wife has a husband for such things, she is here now and anything her American sisters are capable of doing all by themselves, she can do all by herself as well. I will not drive her car to the gas station to get gas. "Man jobs" such as mowing the lawn, etc., sure, I'm all over that sort of thing (although I don't mow the grass - that's what landlords are for!) but when it comes to everyday tasks she is more than capable of doing herself, she is going to do them or they won't get done.

I guess I was just raised differently-- it was sort of an attitude of "it's your project, you wanted it, you take care of it." That sort of caught on until it has become so ingrained I cannot let go of things that are "mine". Works out fine though.

My wife is slowly coming around to this mentality. While there are some "projects" she expects me to help out with, she quickly realizes they get done a lot more efficiently without me.

It can be hard to deal with other people married to American women.

I never understood why people, anyone, put up with bullshit from their wife.

This thread is on page 4, so that is now a valid subject. The way it was originally explained to me (a) year(s)? ago is in the (at the time just Russian) RUB forum, all questions are seriously answered within pages 1 and 2. Pages 2.5-3 are the beginning of veering off topic, and pages 3+ will devolve into talk of guns and pie. If you notice, I actually attempt to answer seriously within the serious parts, and after that I follow the other rule of it has become the zone for guns and pie.

On your topic, when I first went to France, I didn't speak French yet-- only German. I had an easier time getting around in German than English in Paris.

See, that's why you're always welcome here! You get it! Most of our visitors have no clue about the 2.5-3 page rule. You nailed it!

As for Paris, I remember speaking Korean and Russian as well as English and French. What little German I know also came into play.

That's not completely true. A lot of people know the "Can you speak -- insert certain language?" in different languages and know how to answer to that. That doesn't mean they can actually speak the language.

I've always wondered why one of the first things you're taught to say in a foreign language is "can you speak English?" in the target language. HELLO! If they can understand that question in English and reply in the affirmative, then you're good to go. If they say no or look all funny, then obviously, they have no freaking idea. That's the worst thing about those language programs - people know how to understand the question in the target language and say just enough to give you the false hope that maybe they actually do know how to reply to your next questions.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

That's a pretty American mentality for a young woman to have. Many of the FSU women I've met have this mentality about getting what they want, but it often includes using men to get it and/or get it done. If they want to have a garden, a man must dig it up, move stuff, water the ground, etc., then they'll have their garden. American women will have it done before the guy asks, "what was that you wanted me to do?" at half-time.

I beg to differ. I could have had an American "woman" but I wanted a woman that enjoyed n=being a woman and understands that women and men are not the same and thinks any such suggestion is just silly. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

I do consider it a negative because although my wife has a husband for such things, she is here now and anything her American sisters are capable of doing all by themselves, she can do all by herself as well. I will not drive her car to the gas station to get gas. "Man jobs" such as mowing the lawn, etc., sure, I'm all over that sort of thing (although I don't mow the grass - that's what landlords are for!) but when it comes to everyday tasks she is more than capable of doing herself, she is going to do them or they won't get done.

I appreciate a woman that expects a man to do man things. Her thought about driving, initially, was it is a necessary evil, now I think she enjoys it, really, but doesn't like getting gas, HATES IT, actually. I check her car every morning and go fill up it up before I leave if it needs it, check the oil, etc. She basically aims it. I just took it to the shop the other morning for a pair of winter tires on the front so she can get out of the driveway on her own (she always turns too soon and hits the snowbank ) She is blissfully ignorant. I tell her, I am taking your car to mount two winter tires on it. "Oh, OK" (Whatever the heck that is) But hey, a man is supposed to think of those things and pretect them from themselves. In a couple of weeks she will say "Aren't you proud of me, I am not getting stuck in the snow so much"

My wife is slowly coming around to this mentality. While there are some "projects" she expects me to help out with, she quickly realizes they get done a lot more efficiently without me.

I never understood why people, anyone, put up with bullshit from their wife.

No BS here. She does her job, I do mine.

Edited February 9, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[Nasturtium 500]

That's a pretty American mentality for a young woman to have. Many of the FSU women I've met have this mentality about getting what they want, but it often includes using men to get it and/or get it done. If they want to have a garden, a man must dig it up, move stuff, water the ground, etc., then they'll have their garden. American women will have it done before the guy asks, "what was that you wanted me to do?" at half-time.

Some will, some won't. I have met American men and women who are either willfully incompetent or naturally so, and will do nothing for themselves or even learn about such things.

I do consider it a negative because although my wife has a husband for such things, she is here now and anything her American sisters are capable of doing all by themselves, she can do all by herself as well. I will not drive her car to the gas station to get gas. "Man jobs" such as mowing the lawn, etc., sure, I'm all over that sort of thing (although I don't mow the grass - that's what landlords are for!) but when it comes to everyday tasks she is more than capable of doing herself, she is going to do them or they won't get done.

This is what I was talking about above. I cannot imagine being that way-- not because it probably wouldn't be easier, and not because I don't follow a more traditional role, but rather because I see no reason to be as I described above (incompetent), ignorant, or even willfully so. I may not know the guts of my car inside and out, but I know how to read a manual and I know all the terms I need to know in order to fix things... I also have fixed and changed a lot of thigns at one time or another. I know how a basic engine functions (and that was all the way back in High School lol.. I remember taking the ASVAB in order to get out of class for 3 days -- big mistake but hey at the time ti was great until the military wouldn't leave me alone for almost 8 years) and scoring in the 97th percentile for mechanical aptitude lol). I know what could possibly be going wrong if there is a problem. I know where to look for parts. I know what tools I need. All this said, I really don't do much work, if any, recently on my car. I don't have time or the right tools at the moment. I don't think this is iompractical knowledge though. If I am ever stuck on the side of the road (as I was in the fall when my fuel pump suddenly died on the highway), I can figure out if I can continue or not. If it's a simple tire-- I can change it right there. If I didn't have the money for fixing my car, I could do it myself.

The problem with dependence on another human or groups of humans is they will inevitably fail at some point, and not necessarily through any fault of their own. My husband (who knows nothing about cars so is useless in my example even on a good day) cannot always come to save me at a moment's notice. My parents can't either. If I am far enough out, I will have to walk miles before I can even get into signal range for a call.

A better example though-- if you were in, say, a car accident because you slid off the road in ice and your SO looked great and then started to suddenly gasp for air because their pleural cavity was filling with air, wouldn't it behoove you to realize you need to let that air out before they die within a couple of minutes? Or should you just wait for someone else to show up and do... what... when they are already dead?

When I was in an icestorm and our power was out for a couple of days last winter, did it help that I knew how to start a fire and could do so in my fireplace to keep thing OK in my house? Or when I was at work and the water main broke, did it help that I knew how to shut it off even though no one else did?

My wife is slowly coming around to this mentality. While there are some "projects" she expects me to help out with, she quickly realizes they get done a lot more efficiently without me.

See, that's why you're always welcome here! You get it! Most of our visitors have no clue about the 2.5-3 page rule. You nailed it!

As for Paris, I remember speaking Korean and Russian as well as English and French. What little German I know also came into play.

Was it Mox who wrote that rule? Or was it you? Or Kazan Tiger? I forget at this point. I think that was 2 years ago.

[slim 1,514]

I cannot imagine being that way--

In their defense, I believe most FSU women aren't incapable of getting things done, they'd just rather someone else do them - especially "dirty" or "hard" things.

If it's a simple tire-- I can change it right there.

I honestly don't know if my wife could change a tire. We've been saying for years that she needs to learn to change one but we've never gotten around to it. I doubt she lacks the "umph" to break the lug nuts loose. However, I have no doubt in my mind if she were to get a flat tire she'd have no problem getting it changed and she probably wouldn't even get her hands dirty.

The problem with dependence on another human or groups of humans is they will inevitably fail at some point, and not necessarily through any fault of their own.

Or they expect something in return. In the above scenario, while I'm quite sure my wife would have plenty of manfolks who would be willing to help her out, she may come across Bubba and his bruncles, and they may "take" payment.

When I was in an icestorm and our power was out for a couple of days last winter, did it help that I knew how to start a fire and could do so in my fireplace to keep thing OK in my house? Or when I was at work and the water main broke, did it help that I knew how to shut it off even though no one else did?

Self-reliance is a beautiful thing. What many women fail to realize is it's actually attractive, not a negative. Too many women think it makes them "manly" when in fact it makes them "independent." But since that whole independent woman thing is a farce anyway, I guess that common misconception fits right in.

Was it Mox who wrote that rule? Or was it you? Or Kazan Tiger? I forget at this point. I think that was 2 years ago.

It was the VJ gods when they passed down the url to St. Cyril. Though that was about two years ago.

[Nasturtium 500]

In their defense, I believe most FSU women aren't incapable of getting things done, they'd just rather someone else do them - especially "dirty" or "hard" things.

I honestly don't know if my wife could change a tire. We've been saying for years that she needs to learn to change one but we've never gotten around to it. I doubt she lacks the "umph" to break the lug nuts loose. However, I have no doubt in my mind if she were to get a flat tire she'd have no problem getting it changed and she probably wouldn't even get her hands dirty.

Or they expect something in return. In the above scenario, while I'm quite sure my wife would have plenty of manfolks who would be willing to help her out, she may come across Bubba and his bruncles, and they may "take" payment.

Oh no, I didn't mean FSU women-- just people in general. I cannot imagine not even wantning to know how things work (willfully ignorant) or anything related (willfully incompetent). There is a big difference in my mind between having the desire to do something and at least knowing how it works. Same thing for never having encountered something versus willfully pretending it does not exist or deciding it is beneath you to know about it.

Breaking the lug nuts can be a problem (for anyone really) especially if they are put on by hydolic tools. Bleh. They tighten way too tight.

The expectation can suck too. You're right about that.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Oh no, I didn't mean FSU women-- just people in general. I cannot imagine not even wantning to know how things work (willfully ignorant) or anything related (willfully incompetent). There is a big difference in my mind between having the desire to do something and at least knowing how it works. Same thing for never having encountered something versus willfully pretending it does not exist or deciding it is beneath you to know about it.

Breaking the lug nuts can be a problem (for anyone really) especially if they are put on by hydolic tools. Bleh. They tighten way too tight.

The expectation can suck too. You're right about that.

Well, Alla has no idea how a lawn mower works and I have no idea how to cook one of those tasty pies she makes, or multi-layer cakes, or those Ukrainian meatballs. I have no desire to know how to cook a pie, she has no desire to know how to start the lawn mower. I mean we all use our knowledge for what we want and not all of us knows about everything, we have to pick and choose what we want to learn or what interests us. Although unlike most people that use only 10% of their brain, I use ALL of mine, but that means every time I learn something new, I have to delete something old. Sucks, I have to be careful. Alla does not want to know how to catch a fish, but she will cook what I catch.

Willfully spending your time on things that better serve the family than learning how a tractor works seems more logical to her. I can mow the lawn and she can bake a pie while I do it. I mean, she learned to drive, it doesn't mean she had to learn to put gas in the car! Having to take control of a "machina" is bad enough. (In Ukraine women put little yellew warning signs in their windows with high heeled shoes...it means "Woman on board" No Kidding! )

Edited February 11, 2010 by Gary and Alla

[slim 1,514]

In Ukraine women put little yellew warning signs in their windows with high heeled shoes...it means "Woman on board" No Kidding! )

We should require those here.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

We should require those here.

Damn it. I was going to buy her one on our last trip there and forgot! Sometimes I could just shoot myself in the eye! They aslo have the yellow warning signs with the "Y" which is the first letter in the word "student", for student drivers.