Single Payer Bill Passes Calif. Senate

[Ali G. 37]

BY - immigration by whatever means, will always been driven primarily by economics. You know that and I know that. One of the promises of free and open trade was to remedy the influx of illegal immigration by making cheap labor accessible through importing goods made from cheap labor. The reality is that the free and open trade agreement we've had with Mexico over the last dozen years (NAFTA) actually created more of an influx of illegal immigrants because U.S. subsidized corn flooded the Mexican markets, forcing millions of farming families to abandon their businesses in search for other kinds of work. That's the fact. So we curse and rant about the large number of illegals in this country or we can look at the root causes as well as look unemotionally at data that shows in general illegal immigration has no more a negative impact on the state of California's economy than legal immigration.

So getting back to the idea of single payer system - we can help reduce state costs by insuring everyone. FWIW...Mexico does offer universal healthcare to children and pregnant women.

NAFTA has nothing to do with farm subsidies. Comparing Apples to Doritos here. Every second product I buy is now made in Mexico. So to say NAFTA has had no benefit for Mexicans is just not correct. Even half of our electronics are now manufactured there over China. Furthermore, Australia and the US also have a totally free trade agreement, as does Canada. Using this logic, all of Australia's jobs should have shifted to the US, where wage differences can be almost as big as US vs Mexico. Not only has this not happened but Australia's unemployment is now 5.5%. Funny who you guys tend to ignore the huge success Canada has had because of NAFTA, a country like Australia who also has much higher minimum wages.

I just posted an article that seems to suggest otherwise. Common sense 101 also suggest that if illegal immigration had negligible impact on a society, then why has no other first world country opened their doors up. Yes none, zilch, nada.

Maybe you too can team up with Cleo and even throw in my mate Scandal and show me one single city in America where illegal aliens pay more into the system than they use. 4,270,000 million searches on google seem to suggest otherwise.

All I found:

No results found for "illegal aliens are a benefit to America".

No results found for "illegal aliens are a benefit to a nation".

No results found for "illegal aliens promote prosperity".

Thought that we be one of your responses. Don't let the new membership fool you, as you are not dealing with some noob who doesn't know your style by now.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[natty bumppo 297]

Maybe you too can team up with Cleo and even throw in my mate Scandal and show me one single city in America where illegal aliens pay more into the system than they use. 4,270,001 million searches on google seem to suggest otherwise.

fixxored ... you missed one ...

[Ali G. 37]

Still nothing: Information No results found for "illegal aliens positive benefit".

However I did find: Results 9 for "illegal aliens rock".

fixxored ... you missed one ...

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[natty bumppo 297]

Still nothing

Information No results found for "illegal aliens positive benefit".

However I did find:

Results 9 for "illegal aliens rock".

"positive benefits of illegal aliens"

about 1,260,000 for positive benefits of illegal aliens. (0.25 seconds)

[one...two...tree 2,762]

NAFTA has nothing to do with farm subsidies. Comparing Apples to Doritos here. Every second product I buy is now made in Mexico. So to say NAFTA has had no benefit for Mexicans is just not correct. Even half of our electronics are now manufactured there over China.

Mexico lifted it's trade restrictions on U.S. corn as part of the trade agreement (NAFTA). Because U.S. corn is heavily subsidized, Mexican farmers could not compete price wise...the market flooded with U.S. corn pushing out millions of Mexican corn farmers out of business. While NAFTA may have added jobs in Mexico, you can't simply take 5 million corn farmers and magically turn them into factory workers. For one, location plays into it. Most of the manufacturing takes place in the higher populated cities. Many of the farming families did migrate to the cities in search of jobs, but you can only imagine this kind of economic turmoil happening here in the U.S. (which it did...during the Great Depression).

The supporters of free and open trade should at least be consistent and be open to easier migration.

[natty bumppo 297]

Mexico lifted it's trade restrictions on U.S. corn as part of the trade agreement (NAFTA). Because U.S. corn is heavily subsidized, Mexican farmers could not compete price wise...the market flooded with U.S. corn pushing out millions of Mexican corn farmers out of business. While NAFTA may have added jobs in Mexico, you can't simply take 5 million corn farmers and magically turn them into factory workers. For one, location plays into it. Most of the manufacturing takes place in the higher populated cities. Many of the farming families did migrate to the cities in search of jobs, but you can only imagine this kind of economic turmoil happening here in the U.S. (which it did...during the Great Depression).

The supporters of free and open trade should at least be consistent and be open to easier migration.

and the fields could only grow corn ....

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Still nothing: Information No results found for "illegal aliens positive benefit".

Try typing - economic impact from illegal immigration

Here's one worth looking at (Brookings Institute is a very reputable research institute)

Are undocumented workers taking jobs away from U.S. citizens?

While some portion of the undocumented immigrant workforce receives jobs that would otherwise be filled by citizens and documented non-citizens, undocumented workers also create jobs by their presence as consumers in the U.S. It has been difficult for economists to weigh out the various factors, but one of the most obvious indicators, the unemployment rate, does not correlate with key changes in immigration. In fact, the unemployment rate over the last 25 years has moved in cycles that demonstrate a comparatively lower unemployment rate during the most recent (2000-2005) infux of undocumented workers. (Source: Misery Index)

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/econimpacts.html

Edited January 29, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[Ali G. 37]

"positive benefits of illegal aliens"

about 1,260,000 for positive benefits of illegal aliens. (0.25 seconds)

I used the quotation marks for the searches. Which brought back zero for that phrase as well. Of course I was pulling their leg as naturally there are going to be people out there who write stuff based on their opinion that there is a benefit. Unfortunately, apart from "we get their kids" and "they spend in a country", there are little economic benefits.

PS Are you all for illegal aliens now?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

and the fields could only grow corn ....

What kind of work do you do, Natty?

[Peikko 1,575]

NAFTA has nothing to do with farm subsidies. Comparing Apples to Doritos here. Every second product I buy is now made in Mexico. So to say NAFTA has had no benefit for Mexicans is just not correct. Even half of our electronics are now manufactured there over China. Furthermore, Australia and the US also have a totally free trade agreement, as does Canada. Using this logic, all of Australia's jobs should have shifted to the US, where wage differences can be almost as big as US vs Mexico. Not only has this not happened but Australia's unemployment is now 5.5%. Funny who you guys tend to ignore the huge success Canada has had because of NAFTA, a country like Australia who also has much higher minimum wages.

I just posted an article that seems to suggest otherwise. Common sense 101 also suggest that if illegal immigration had negligible impact on a society, then why has no other first world country opened their doors up. Yes none, zilch, nada.

Maybe you too can team up with Cleo and even throw in my mate Scandal and show me one single city in America where illegal aliens pay more into the system than they use. 4,270,000 million searches on google seem to suggest otherwise.

All I found:

No results found for "illegal aliens are a benefit to America".

No results found for "illegal aliens are a benefit to a nation".

No results found for "illegal aliens promote prosperity".

Thought that we be one of your responses. Don't let the new membership fool you, as you are not dealing with some noob who doesn't know your style by now.

Anyone who believes they have a simple answer to complex problems, particularly if that simple answer is to berate the poor for ruining the lives of 'ordinary folks' deserves little to no respect for airing that opinion.

[natty bumppo 297]

I used the quotation marks for the searches. Which brought back zero for that phrase as well. Of course I was pulling their leg as naturally there are going to be people out there who write stuff based on their opinion that there is a benefit. Unfortunately, apart from "we get their kids" and "they spend in a country", there are little economic benefits.

PS Are you all for illegal aliens now?

i didn't use the quotes ...

for illegals? are you on drugs ... or did you start drinking early today?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I used the quotation marks for the searches. Which brought back zero for that phrase as well. Of course I was pulling their leg as naturally there are going to be people out there who write stuff based on their opinion that there is a benefit. Unfortunately, apart from "we get their kids" and "they spend in a country", there are little economic benefits.

PS Are you all for illegal aliens now?

Here's some more links for you BY (by searching under "economic impact of illegal immigration")

Illegal Immigrants and the U.S. Economy (NPR)

Illegal workers: good for U.S. economy (CNN Money)

Embracing Illegals Companies are getting hooked on the buying power of 11 million undocumented immigrants (Business Week)

[natty bumppo 297]

What kind of work do you do, Natty?

the kind that provides me with a paycheck ....

you back on this kick again?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

the kind that provides me with a paycheck ....

you back on this kick again?

Figures. You like to make sweeping judgments towards those millions of Mexican corn farmers, suggesting they are too stupid to learn how to survive the market change, but you won't open yourself up to the same scrutiny. It's easier to look down on other occupations when you can hide behind that computer screen of yours.

[Ali G. 37]

Try typing - economic impact from illegal immigration

Here's one worth looking at (Brookings Institute is a very reputable research institute)

Are undocumented workers taking jobs away from U.S. citizens?

While some portion of the undocumented immigrant workforce receives jobs that would otherwise be filled by citizens and documented non-citizens, undocumented workers also create jobs by their presence as consumers in the U.S. It has been difficult for economists to weigh out the various factors, but one of the most obvious indicators, the unemployment rate, does not correlate with key changes in immigration. In fact, the unemployment rate over the last 25 years has moved in cycles that demonstrate a comparatively lower unemployment rate during the most recent (2000-2005) infux of undocumented workers. (Source: Misery Index)

http://aad.english.ucsb.edu/econimpacts.html

They are both right and wrong, unfortunately what they are right about is not the issue here, nor in this economy. They themselves openly state further on in the site that illegal aliens reduce labor shortages. If you are reducing the labor shortage you are increasing the supply, this in essence reduces wages; as it has done in this economy. They're arguing that is does not negatively impact employment, however, they are analyzing a time when the US economy was booming. Therefore, at that time, an increase in labor supply is a good thing. However we are now in different economic times, with massive nationwide unemployment. The thought that more unskilled workers will benefit the country because they shop at walmart is just ridiculous by any stretch. How about Americans being able to shop at walmart instead, that is, rather than being homeless or living in section 8? Those guys Americans don't deserve a chance do they, it's poor SA foreigners who deserve the chance. Effectively that is what people are advocating.

It's the equivalent of saying that during the great depression, the best thing America could have done is brought millions more to America. That the best thing a third world nation can do is allow even more people to enter, then by them consuming more, their nation will psoper.

I did enjoy the source: The Affirmative Action and Diversity Project: A Web Page for Research

Once again, these professor's opinions are great and all, however, too bad no other first world country tends to agree with them.