Single Payer Bill Passes Calif. Senate

[Ali G. 37]

It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with it BY. It's how it is, particularly if you do not want to see people dying in the streets, which no matter how deserving some folks think that would be for people who can't prove their legal status (and that's not just illegals by the way), I do not wish to see it, or deal with that thanks all the same.

Which is the reason why every other developed country has such strict immigration policies and stances on illegal aliens. It's not because they hate people but because you then have to deal with the consequences of them.

It's clear that a certain Demographic in the Us feels that by allowing illegal aliens and then providing them costly services for free, they are somehow sticking it to the man or Exxon. When in reality, it's the other way around, as they are shooting themselves in the foot.

To think that you can pass massive and costly reform, yet not factor these things in is a huge mistake. After all, not even Europe Canada or Australia could afford it, and that's with a 20 plus year old national heathcare systems.

[Peikko 1,575]

Which is the reason why every other developed country has such strict immigration policies and stances on illegal aliens. It's not because they hate people but because you then have to deal with the consequences of them.

It's clear that a certain Demographic in the Us feels that by allowing illegal aliens and then providing them costly services for free, they are somehow sticking it to the man or Exxon. When in reality, it's the other way around, as they are shooting themselves in the foot.

To think that you can pass massive and costly reform, yet not factor these things in is a huge mistake. After all, not even Europe Canada or Australia could afford it, and that's with a 20 plus year old national heathcare systems.

Most other developed countries do not have a direct border with a third world economy that is thousands of miles long and prohibitively expensive to police effectively. The nearest you could come to an equivalence is the EU, where Universal health care is in place and not significantly impacted by illegal immigrants, despite what Daily Mail readers would have one believe.

There are ways of dealing with this problem, but pissing on the immigrants is not the way to tackle it effectively and more importantly, cost effectively.

that's insane, australia is way nicer than america is

Except towards potential immigrants. The immigration system is a minefield.

[Ali G. 37]

Show me tangible evidence that supports that?

Here is the education ranking. It seems that California feel to third last. Keep in mind this was also before the crisis, as such I can only imagine what it's like now; considering how hard CA has been hit.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

why delay the inevitable?

Considering there is a housing shortage there, I am building a house.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[Peikko 1,575]

Here is the education ranking. It seems that California feel to third last. Keep in mind this was also before the crisis, as such I can only imagine what it's like now; considering how hard CA has been hit.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

Considering there is a housing shortage there, I am building a house.

The education system has problems, but do you not consider it might be a tad simplistic to believe that this is down to illegal immigrants? It's probably a contributory factor but the sole and main reason? You have to be kidding me, no?

[Ali G. 37]

that's insane, australia is way nicer than america is

Well with the unemployment dropping to 5.5% (in this global recession), with interest rates rising, with Salaries rising to $52k average, and the median house price just having risen (yet again) to $540K, one would be safe to assume they are doing extremely well. Then if that doesn't work, you could just look at the multitude of international studies and rankings out there. Many of which you have personally posted, that rank Australia in the top five out of 220ish countries. In the last article you posted regarding the best country to live in, they were ranked second. Correct me if I am wrong of course, as you were the one who posted the article to begin with.

[natty bumppo 297]

Considering there is a housing shortage there, I am building a house.

how long does it take to stack the concrete blocks so you can roll your house into place?

[Ali G. 37]

how long does it take to stack the concrete blocks so you can roll your house into place?

We don't use concrete blocks over there. We use wooden or steel framing, with brick. However planning and permits take ages over there. We also don't do cookie-cutter homes, so i had to see an architect, engineer, draftsmen etc to finalize the design. You need to meet county and state guidelines, hence there being no need for a HOA. Then I have to tender to builders, who are extremely busy, and find the right one.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here is the education ranking. It seems that California feel to third last. Keep in mind this was also before the crisis, as such I can only imagine what it's like now; considering how hard CA has been hit.

http://www.morganquitno.com/edrank.htm

Why did the wages of California's high school drop outs fall 17% between 1980 and 2004?

While some observes have been quick to attribute this drop in wages to undocumented immigration, economists note that a variety of factors have led to the decline in wages for this specific group (including the impacts of technology). In the same period, for instance, wages for high school drop outs fell 31% in Ohio, a state that has a very low presence of undocumented immigrants. In a 2005 study, researchers also found that cities with many poorly educated immigrants, and cities that have very few, had no wage differences that could be attributed to the presence of immigrants. A group of scholars at M.I.T., Harvard and the Brookings Institution has also found that income inequality in the bottom half of the wage scale has not increased since approximately the mid-1980s. Two prominent economists have estimated that the decline in the wages of high school drop outs due to undocumented immigration is 3.6% over 25 years, but reacting to inquiries about this study, one of its authors has noted that the percentage would be reduced if alterations in trade flow were accommodated (for example, without undocumented immigrants, some items now made in the U.S. would probably be imported). Other economists note that the employment of undocumented workers has allowed some businesses to make capital investments that in turn create more jobs. This fact helps explain why, "across the entire labor force, the effect of illegal immigrants was zero, because the presence of uneducated immigrants actually increased the earnings of more educated workers, including high school graduates." The positive impacts of undocumented workers were also realized as "higher-skilled workers could hire foreigners at low wages to mow their lawns and care for their children, freeing time for these workers to earn more." (Source: "Cost of Illegal Immigration May Be Less Than Meets the Eye," by Eduardo Porter, The New York Times (April 16, 2006)

link

Edited January 29, 2010 by Galt's gallstones

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Don't they know when you are in a hole you stop digging? LOL

[Ali G. 37]

The education system has problems, but do you not consider it might be a tad simplistic to believe that this is down to illegal immigrants? It's probably a contributory factor but the sole and main reason? You have to be kidding me, no?

Cleo it's not rocket science, simple math actually. You have well over 650,000 children of illegal aliens or anchor-babies in California. At $10k per child (per year) although it's probably more considering the cost of living in CA, that amounts to $6.5 billion dollars annually to educate the children of illegal aliens alone. California did no receive an extra $6.5 billion in tax revenue to offset this cost, instead it was taken out of money available to Californian students. Now add every other service illegal aliens use but cannot possible pay for on their husband $6 job, with many paid under the table. The sales tax is sure as hell not raising the billions needed to offset this new cost, therefore, the legitimate Californian tax payer is. Not to mention, services are being cut from those in California that are already poor, like minorities, to pay for hiring the staff needed for this massive influx of ESOL students.

Much is the case in our area where the majority of students who cannot afford the $2 daily meal and receive free lunch, are Hispanic; obviously not allowed to find out status. Yet you guys (particularly Scandal) are expecting others to believe that these same folk that cannot afford to provide their third child $2 for lunch, are paying more than their share into the system and are a net gain for America. Sorry but the facts and reality do not support that opinion.

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The children of illegal aliens (anchor babies) have bankrupted the state of California

January 20, 2010 3:57 Examiner - Dave Gibson

In 2009, San Bernardino County spent $64 million providing welfare benefits to U.S.-born children of illegal aliens.

According to county records, during a typical month, close to 15,000 offspring of illegal aliens received either welfare payments or food stamps in 2009. Over 11,000 of those children received both forms of assistance.

Assemblyman Steve Knight, R-Palmdale, told the San Bernardino Sun: "This is a huge burden on our state. Obviously, these kids are U.S. citizens and that's fine. But when you look at it, these parents should have never been here in the first place."

Raymond Herrera, founder and president of We The People California's Crusader, said: "The American people are fed up with illegal aliens depleting our tax dollars by overrunning our schools, our hospitals and our welfare system."

While $64 million more than the county can afford particularly during the current deep recession, it is but a drop in the bucket, when you consider what the entire state of California is paying-out to ‘anchor babies’ and their illegal alien parents.

In August 2009, Los Angeles County Supervisor Michael Antonovich made public the staggering amount which the taxpayers spend on illegal aliens, living in L.A. County. Last June alone, the county paid out $48 million to the children of illegal aliens, an increase of $10 million over June 2007.

$26 million of that total came in the form of food stamps, while another $22 million was given to the illegal alien families in welfare checks.

Assuming that June was a typical month for 2009, Los Angeles County spent nearly $600 million on those two programs last year alone. That is in addition to the more than $1 billion that the county spends annually on the medical treatment, education, emergency services, and incarceration of illegal aliens.

These figures explain why not only L.A. County, but the entire state of California are now in financial ruin. Supervisor Michael Antonovich told reporters that illegal aliens continue to have a “catastrophic impact on Los Angeles County taxpayers.”

In 2003, the American Southwest saw 77 hospitals enter bankruptcy due to unpaid medical bills incurred by illegal aliens. A staggering 84 hospitals in California alone, have been forced to close their doors because of the growing crisis. Hospitals which manage to remain open, pass the unpaid costs onto the rest of us, which translates into more out-of-pocket expenses and higher insurance premiums for Americans.

With rising unemployment, huge trade deficits due to the loss of our manufacturing base, and a soaring national debt, we simply cannot afford to pay the bills for this nation’s illegal alien population. We can no longer accept elected representatives who choose to better represent a foreign national population, rather than those of us who actually pay their salaries.

Illegal immigration is slowly but surely destroying this nation.

http://www.examiner.com/x-35821-Immigratio...-of-California#

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[Peikko 1,575]

That's not facts BY, that's selectively filtered opinion. Try again. Also, your basic math is hopeless

[Ali G. 37]

After reading that article, I don't want insurance to open up across state lines.

[Ali G. 37]

That's not facts BY, that's selectively filtered opinion. Try again. Also, your basic math is hopeless

Riiiight, so all of these folks who actually work in the counties are wrong but your opinion is spot on? Talk about being full of yourself.

Nonetheless, where are your facts then? You sing the same silly tune for years now, without ever backing up with your own facts. Not even once actually.

Here I will help you out. As a start, show me a single county in California where they receive enough tax to offset the cost of the services used by illegal aliens and anchor-babies. Surely someone of your caliber is able to provide such facts.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Booyah

[Peikko 1,575]

[one...two...tree 2,762]

BY - immigration by whatever means, will always been driven primarily by economics. You know that and I know that. One of the promises of free and open trade was to remedy the influx of illegal immigration by making cheap labor accessible through importing goods made from cheap labor. The reality is that the free and open trade agreement we've had with Mexico over the last dozen years (NAFTA) actually created more of an influx of illegal immigrants because U.S. subsidized corn flooded the Mexican markets, forcing millions of farming families to abandon their businesses in search for other kinds of work. That's the fact. So we curse and rant about the large number of illegals in this country or we can look at the root causes as well as look unemotionally at data that shows in general illegal immigration has no more a negative impact on the state of California's economy than legal immigration.

So getting back to the idea of single payer system - we can help reduce state costs by insuring everyone. FWIW...Mexico does offer universal healthcare to children and pregnant women.