MEDICAL LONDON

[English Muffin 59]

Ergo, you cannot receive a caution without having been arrested, booked, charged and pleaded guilty to the offense.

Yes you can. A 'voluntary attender' can receive a caution without being arrested.

[SunDrop 59]

when you are cautioned you are not necessarily arrested. Just like when you are ticketed for speeding you are not arrested because while illegal it is not a criminal offense it is a civil offense. And hust because it doesn't have an exact US equivalent doesn't mean people need to start putting it on their visa waiver forms, especially since the Home Office does not consider it a criminal offense.

What it boils down to is how a caution is 'administered'. My understanding, and again, I'll verify this with the police officer, is that it is an alternative to court prosecution. This would mean that someone, other than the police, needs to decide whether the offender is literally worth prosecuting. How could this sort of judgement be passed if the offender isn't actually charged with a crime? A caution is an outcome, not an acquittal. Even if a caution has expired, get 3 or more for the same offense, you get prosecuted in court for it.

Until we have a definite legal explanation of the caution process, we're debating opinion.

I hope the OP does come back and let's us know the outcome of her fiance's interview.

[SunDrop 59]

Yes you can. A 'voluntary attender' can receive a caution without being arrested.

Which means the beneficiary in this case would have to have walked into a police station and said, 'hey, i'm in possession of cannabis?' *grins*

Aren't there are 2 kinds of caution, though? One is what is cited to you when your miranda rights are read and the other is the slap on the wrist/ results of the charge, instead of prosecution through a court.

I know that you can be cautioned whilst attending voluntarily, say if you are helping an investigation and they believe you may have committed an offense but need to question you to establish whether charges can be brought. If insufficient evidence is discovered, they cannot arrest you. But I'm not convinced we're talking about the same kind of caution?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Sundrop, I know people who have been received street cautions. They were not arrested.

[English Muffin 59]

I worked for a UK Police Force for 13 years before I moved here and I know that a person does NOT have to be arrested to receive a caution.

I think Sundrop also misunderstands what a 'voluntary attender' is. It's not someone who walks into a Police Station and gives themselves up.

[SunDrop 59]

Sundrop, I know people who have been received street cautions. They were not arrested.

Fair enough. Unless the OP clarifies what the circumstances surrounding his caution were, we can't know to advise her on taking the double whammy of a drug-related offense and misrepresentation into consideration.

[English Muffin 59]

I would also like to add that there are no 'Miranda' rights in the UK, that is a US term.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

Fair enough. Unless the OP clarifies what the circumstances surrounding his caution were, we can't know to advise her on taking the double whammy of a drug-related offense and misrepresentation into consideration.

and we shouldn't bandy about words like "historic misrepresentation" to someone who already is worried about their approval without 1. first understanding these circumstances were 2. knowing what the hell we are talking about in the first place

[SunDrop 59]

I worked for a UK Police Force for 13 years before I moved here and I know that a person does NOT have to be arrested to receive a caution.

I think Sundrop also misunderstands what a 'voluntary attender' is. It's not someone who walks into a Police Station and gives themselves up.

I do know what a voluntary offender is, thanks. I was being humourous. Much as I know that the OP did not mean that her fiance literally urinated on his police certificate when she said he had weed on his certificate...

I'm stepping away from this now. Without confirmation from the OP as to whether her fiance was arrested or not, we can't give her any more advice about what to potentially expect outcome-wise from his interview/ reason for denial, should he be denied.

[English Muffin 59]

I'm stepping away from this now.

Probably the most helpful thing you've said in this thread so far.

[SunDrop 59]

Probably the most helpful thing you've said in this thread so far.

Wow, that was uncalled for.

Aren't there are 2 kinds of caution, though?

It was a QUESTION. I haven't claimed to be an authority on cautioning. The reference to miranda rights was for descriptive purposes since we refer to it as cautioning.

I thought we were discussing cautions, what they are, how they are issued, if indeed arrest is an automatic part of the process and what the implications are from a US immigration stand point. These kinds of dialogues take place all the time on the more contentious threads, naming themes of 'am i allowed to work before AOS if I'm helping my spouse in their own business' or 'can i volunteer somewhere that has offered me a job while waiting for my EAD' as 2 recent ones.

It's only fair to ask the OP for more information about the circumstances surrounding her fiance's caution so that she can get a considered idea of what they could be facing.

And as for 'banding words like historic misrepresentation' about, the OP was asking whether her fiance could be denied. IF he was arrested and IF he entered the US on a VWP and stated that he hasn't been arrested for drug-related offenses, then he COULD be facing problems with misrepresention dating back to that I-94, that COULD contribute to a denial. Posters refer to possibilities for consideration all the time on VJ.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I think those words sound pretty hysterical and scare-mongering as written when you don't know the circumstances and haven't even bothered to ask or put qualifiers on them.

[elmcitymaven 9,712]

The reference to miranda rights was for descriptive purposes since we refer to it as cautioning.

Sorry, putting on my solicitor hat here (yes, I'm the USC but I went to law school in England) -- Miranda rights are nothing like a caution. Not in the slightest. You are confusing a caution with the right to silence. Furthermore, a caution does not necessarily involve an arrest. The difficulty here is that there is no direct analogue in US law to the caution, which leaves this a bit of a grey area.

[/solicitor hat off]

[cptrosco 0]

If the medical comes back with any non prescription drugs (ie. canabis, coke etc) I do believe its a instant 3 or 5 year ban.

[English Muffin 59]

If the medical comes back with any non prescription drugs (ie. canabis, coke etc) I do believe its a instant 3 or 5 year ban.

Can you provide a source for this please?