This might be a taboo topic...

[milimelo 4,540]

There's no prohibition on your getting married while on a tourist visa -

however you have to return back across the pond while the CR-1 is being filed.

The fact that you are married no longer is a ticket to overstay your tourist visa.

My first wife overstayed her student visa and I kept her here by marrying her

but that was over 20 years ago and those times are gone forever.

How did you find America?

- "Turn left at Greenland" - John Lennon

I was replying to OP's scheming to come over "get married out of the blue" and file for AOS - thus my not doable.

Not sure what the How did you find America is?

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

Then why ad lib the part about the CO not buying their spontaneous wedding story, suggesting that was the reason for denial? It's better to stick with the known facts rather than risk misinformation and a loss of credibility.

It's not called the "Ten Foot Pole" question for nothing. Wouldn't hurt for the OP to Google that phrase. Especially follow the links to any commentary by the attorney Stuart Folinsky.

I'll never be convinced that abused intent at the border could not be construed by the authorites as a mis-rep. It's probably unwise for lay people to speculate to the affirmative as to what any differences may be.

[sachinky 465]

It's not a "taboo way of doing it"--it's illegal.

It's not "unofficially not recommended--again, it's illegal.

You don't have to like the laws. You just have to follow them. Si?

[payxibka 10,047]

My first wife overstayed her student visa and I kept her here by marrying her

but that was over 20 years ago and those times are gone forever.

I disagree, it is not gone forever and still occurs quite frequently... this situation as you described would have a high chance of success

Edited January 27, 2010 by payxibka

[john_and_marlene 162]

Family visas were not made more difficult because of those who adjust from tourist visas. They were made more difficult because of fraudulent marriages and security concerns.

Family visas do not take longer because of those who adjust from tourist visas. They take longer because of backlogs and security concerns.

If anything, those adjusting from tourist visas reduce the number of couples waiting in backlogs at the consulates as they have not added a petition to the group.

The arguement that "people like these" are the reason for the wait times and scrutiny fails without a validated premise.

[sachinky 465]

There is abuse of every sort of visa there is out there--K-1, B-2, K-3, CR-1. With every case of abuse, more procedures/steps/checks are put in place to root out cases of fraud and abuse. Tourist visas are one of the most worst abused. It is practically impossible to secure a tourist visa from certain countries. The OP shouldn't take advantage and actually be grateful to belong to a country that is accorded the VWP.

What the OP is planning is FRAUD and ABUSE.

Edited January 27, 2010 by sachinky

[Rebecca Jo 1,962]

It is because of people like you US has implemented such strict and a long process. You know that you are doing the wrong thing "I'm thinking about popping over on a tourist visa, and then 'spontaneously' getting married and applying for an adjustment of status. " and yet you post here to seek reassurance?

One piece of advice, 5 months to a year away from a loved one is better then 3,5,10 or even life!

Not really.

The process for a visa for an immediate relative is stringent because of abuse by both aliens and US citizens alike in the 'fabriciation' of relationships for a fee.

[sachinky 465]

It's not called the "Ten Foot Pole" question for nothing. Wouldn't hurt for the OP to Google that phrase. Especially follow the links to any commentary by the attorney Stuart Folinsky. I'll never be convinced that abused intent at the border could not be construed by the authorites as a mis-rep. It's probably unwise for lay people to speculate to the affirmative as to what any differences may be.

Exactly. While I understand there is case-law/precedent in place regarding prior intent--I don't get how people always assume/expect that CO's will go by the book and follow every law to the T whereas the visa applicants themselves are breaking laws, left, right and center. Technically, they COULD deny you for whatever reason they choose to and then hand you a perfectly valid and legal reason such as "lack of bonafide relationship." Like you said, lying about intent at the border could very well be construed as misrepresentation by the authorities.

[thongd4me 69]

My first wife overstayed her student visa and I kept her here by marrying her

but that was over 20 years ago and those times are gone forever.

I disagree, it is not gone forever and still occurs quite frequently... this situation as you described would have a high chance of success

Maybe I went too far by saying "gone forever" but for visa applications of all kinds

the playing field and the rules have changed considerably in the last 20 years in terms

of documentation required, regulations to comply with, length of time required to apply

and the fees assessed by various government agencies.

20 years ago I would describe my visa journey as a "walk in the park" while my more

recent journey was fraught with possible pitfalls which we thankfully overcame in good

time relative to other contemporary applicants.

Edited January 27, 2010 by thongd4me

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Hey everybody, I've been reading some of the posts around here and the wealth of information is amazing. Can anyone offer me some advice? I'm from England, and my fiancee is a US Citizen. We've been in a relationship for a few years. We're looking into the K-1 visa, but with the waiting time & expense, I'm thinking about popping over on a tourist visa, and then 'spontaneously' getting married and applying for an adjustment of status.

I know this is a kind of taboo way of doing it, but does anyone have any opinions of whether this would be ok? I'm aware that officially it's not recommended, but does anyone have - or know anyone / have any clients with - any practical experience? I've spoken to an immigration attorney who frankly said that it would be a 1 in 1000 chance of getting deported after arriving on a tourist visa and then marrying & applying for change of status.

Is the K-1 visa mostly designed for citizens of countries who are ineligible, or have difficulty obtaining, tourist visas? Or also for people who have rarely seen each other, who would appreciate 3 months together to make sure they want to marry? Because for a UK Citizen with no criminal record, the process seems a little overkill. All it does is allow me into the country, which a tourist visa would do anyway. I even think that a tourist visa would allow me to go over for 3 months, although it could be 6 weeks, I'm not sure. And all the major security checks seem to come in during the AOS anyway. Basically - if a system is in place to allow someone to enter the US on a tourist visa, legally marry a US citizen and then legally apply for an AOS, wouldn't it be foolish not to go down this route, if eligible?

If anyone could offer any advice I'd really appreciate it. Thanks.

Phil

what you are thinking of is a crime and you are thinking of it because you are too impatient and impulsive to do it properly which it is a committment for the rest of your life. My suggestion. Break off the engagement and try again when you are more mature and willing to accept mature responsibility.

[JERIII 8]

Consider this very carefully:

If you try to adjust status from a fiance or spousal nonimmigrant visa and, for some bizarre reason are denied, you can appeal. Such appeals are virtually always successful. They seem to figure that if you want to bother appealing, the marriage must be valid

If you try to adjust status from a tourist visa and, for some bizarre reason are denied, you CANNOT appeal!

This gets said on VJ a lot, but it isn't really that simple.

As far as I know, it is essentially impossible to appeal a denial of Adjustment of Status. There is no appeal procedure, all you can do is file a motion for reconsideration by the same officer. It must be filed within 30 days and it must be based on a legal point - it is not simply a second try based on "we should have been approved". There is no automatic right of appeal.

So, while someone on the VWP does waive the right, even if you're not on the VWP you don't have much right, it doesn't make much difference.

[SunDrop 59]

There is a CBP who is active on these boards. I really hope he's flagged any Philip Perkins entering the US on a VWP anytime soon to be asked specifically if he intends to get married whilst in the country. Mr. Perkins would then either lie, or get denied. If the former, when said Mr. Perkins goes to AOS, he'll be denied because of his material misrepresentation.

Legalities aside, it's not a good idea to garner advice from people while insulting a fair few of them in the process. I'm British, with no criminal record and we're petitioning for a K1. The sweeping, ignorant generalisation of a process many of us are torturing ourselves with in order to follow the letter of the law of the country in which we wish to become permanent residents or eventually citizens of is frankly offensive.

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

gee, people sure do get emotional about this subject!

[HeatDeath 430]

This gets said on VJ a lot, but it isn't really that simple.

As far as I know, it is essentially impossible to appeal a denial of Adjustment of Status. There is no appeal procedure, all you can do is file a motion for reconsideration by the same officer. It must be filed within 30 days and it must be based on a legal point - it is not simply a second try based on "we should have been approved". There is no automatic right of appeal.

So, while someone on the VWP does waive the right, even if you're not on the VWP you don't have much right, it doesn't make much difference.

Well, I was thinking more of a worst-case scenario than that. My understanding is that after you get denied they put you in removal proceedings. At some point you get brought before an immigration judge. At THAT point, if you have your USC spouse by your side and supporting you, and present evidence, I am given to understand, at that point the judge will virtually always accept an appeal and overturn the removal.

I would imagine at that point the judge would take a dim view of any visa abuse that got you in in the first place.

Doesn't sound like fun either way.

[FortLaudy 10]

gee, people sure do get emotional about this subject!

Because most people (I would hope) on VJ, went through the visa journey the legal and right way - being with the one we love for the right reasons, compiling stacks of paperword to prove our marriage is legit and waiting it out before being able to be together or travel together to be with family members etc., so not only is dishing out illegal advice a TOS violation of this website and stupid but it also pisses VJ'ers off when someone blatantly tries to commit fraud and "cutting the line".