Toyota in huge US safety recall

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The Ford Taurus had pretty decent track record as recall. But cars like the Chevy Citation.... and their new Aveo.....sheep droppings.

The Citation was a long time ago. The Aveo is #######, but the Cobalt is better and the Malibu is a very good car. The trucks and full size SUV's are also good products. Buick has good quality ratings, Cadillac makes some nice cars. Ford has the Fusion and Taurus, the Crown Vic is the most popular police car and taxi in the country. Plus the F series pickups and some great SUV's.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You got lucky there Spooky....I could go on about repairs to my Ford's (Thunderbird x 2, Bronco, F-150 and Ranger).

I know that there are problem vehicles in every brand. Even Honda and Toyota dealers have service departments that do repairs and warranty service. I really don't think my experience was luck as my vehicles spanned a few decades with different brands and models. I personally feel that Detroit has made a lot of good vehicles in the past 20 years.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Citation was a long time ago. The Aveo is #######, but the Cobalt is better and the Malibu is a very good car. The trucks and full size SUV's are also good products. Buick has good quality ratings, Cadillac makes some nice cars. Ford has the Fusion and Taurus, the Crown Vic is the most popular police car and taxi in the country. Plus the F series pickups and some great SUV's.

Speaking of the Crown Victoria...did Ford ever change the faulty design that has caused so many of them to burst into flames?

http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/timeline.html

[William33 110]

I know that there are problem vehicles in every brand. Even Honda and Toyota dealers have service departments that do repairs and warranty service. I really don't think my experience was luck as my vehicles spanned a few decades with different brands and models. I personally feel that Detroit has made a lot of good vehicles in the past 20 years.

Spooky,

You have had different experiences (positive) than I have with American vehicles and I respect that. Given my long standing issues with Ford products, I choose Honda/Acura. We can leave it at that.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Spooky,

You have had different experiences (positive) than I have with American vehicles and I respect that. Given my long standing issues with Ford products, I choose Honda/Acura. We can leave it at that.

I'm not being argumentative at all. I don't doubt your experiences and I respect your issues with Ford. I'm sure I'd feel the same way.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Speaking of the Crown Victoria...did Ford ever change the faulty design that has caused so many of them to burst into flames?

http://www.crownvictoriasafetyalert.com/timeline.html

I don't know. I haven't seen anything about it either way. They had the same problem with the Pinto back in the 70's.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I don't know. I haven't seen anything about it either way. They had the same problem with the Pinto back in the 70's.

Ford decided it'd be more financially feasible for them to just pay out of court settlements in cases where the tank bursts into flames than to redesign the car, from what I understand. The fact that they are used as taxi cabs and patrol cars has more to do with aggressive deal making with the agencies that purchase them, than about their performance or safety. I'm sure Ford uses stats to show their clients that they are relatively safe vehicles...just don't be in one when someone rear ends you. That's pretty sh!tty as far as as business ethics go, IMO.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Here's some facts:

• Ford’s “Panther” line of cars – the Crown Victoria, Town Car and Grand Marquis – continue to be manufactured with the fuel tank located outside the protection of the rear axle. This location increases the potential for post-collision fires when these vehicles are struck from behind.
  

• This design flaw is responsible for the burning deaths of at least 21 police officers and scores of civilians, and severe injuries to hundreds of others. For a complete list of deaths and injuries by state, see www.Autosafety.org. Analyses of the accidents show the victims would have survived the accidents if the vehicles had not caught fire.
  

• After pressure from police agencies, Ford began retrofitting all older models of Crown Victoria police cars with protective fuel tank shields. Starting in 2004, the shields became standard equipment. Ford offered this same protection to Town Car limousines starting in September 2005. However, Ford has yet to notify the general public about these cars’ vulnerability to rear impact fires and the availability of protective shields.
  

• The Crown Victoria, Town Car and Grand Marquis are the only passenger cars produced in North America that continue with this archaic and dangerous design. (source: Ford Motor Co.)
  

• Because of this design, high speed rear-end crashes push the fuel tank against portions of the rear axle or suspension system with enough force to rupture the tank, spill fuel and ignite the vehicle.
  

• Ford's own document (The 2001 Vogler Study) shows the rate of rear-end collision fire deaths for Ford's "Panther" police cruiser line is 140% higher than it is for the competitive GM line, and about double the rate for Ford's much smaller Escort line.
  

• An estimated five million unprotected civilian versions of the Panther line – Crown Victorias, Lincoln Town Cars and Grand Marquis – are in use on roadways today.
  

• Ford has admitted in a deposition that fuel-fed fires in this line of sedans already have claimed more lives than the Ford Pinto when it was recalled in the mid-1970s.
  

• The Center for Auto Safety, the nation’s oldest and largest consumer auto safety group, has urged Ford to redesign the Panther autos with a safer fuel tank location. That plea was joined in December 2005 by U.S. Sen. Charles Schumer, D-New York, followed by the death of that state’s second cab driver in a Crown Victoria taxi.
  

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Ford decided it'd be more financially feasible for them to just pay out of court settlements in cases where the tank bursts into flames than to redesign the car, from what I understand. The fact that they are used as taxi cabs and patrol cars has more to do with aggressive deal making with the agencies that purchase them, than about their performance or safety. I'm sure Ford uses stats to show their clients that they are relatively safe vehicles...just don't be in one when someone rear ends you. That's pretty sh!tty as far as as business ethics go, IMO.

I just did some quick searching and read that some PD installed Kevlar shield on the tanks to improve safety. I have no idea if Ford has a program for this or not.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The Panther line is quite dated in design. The only reason they have kept producing them is the major tooling has been paid for long ago and they have a good profit margin. There aren't many alternatives out there to fit the needs for heavy duty use such as police and taxi. Most all cars are front wheel drive now. Some PD are using the Dodge Charger as it is rear wheel drive. The Chevy Malibu and Impala are both FWD.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I just did some quick searching and read that some PD installed Kevlar shield on the tanks to improve safety. I have no idea if Ford has a program for this or not.

You just gotta wonder why Ford will not redesign so that the fuel tank shielded by the rear axle? Surely such a redesign wouldn't drastically change the rest of the car.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The Panther line is quite dated in design. The only reason they have kept producing them is the major tooling has been paid for long ago and they have a good profit margin. There aren't many alternatives out there to fit the needs for heavy duty use such as police and taxi. Most all cars are front wheel drive now. Some PD are using the Dodge Charger as it is rear wheel drive. The Chevy Malibu and Impala are both FWD.

Profit before safety. There's your answer why so many people have such a distaste for American cars. I'm not saying it's entirely accurate, but it is one example of their shoddy business model. F#ck the consumer is bad a business model to go with in such a competitive market.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Profit before safety. There's your answer why so many people have such a distaste for American cars. I'm not saying it's entirely accurate, but it is one example of their shoddy business model. F#ck the consumer is bad a business model to go with in such a competitive market.

I don't doubt that Ford was aware of this problem and did next to nothing about it. It is not a good way to do business.

[MrsCat 6]

I find it strange that people take such moral superiority in their car's country of origin. If you like American. Like American. If you like an import. Like your import. They really are apples to oranges, and no one is better than the other. It all depends on what you're looking for in a vehicle.

I personally like the styling and design of American automobiles. Now if someone put an Aston Martin AMV10 in my garage, I'd cruise. But, if they put a Ford 350 in there too, I'd drive that one first.

[William33 110]

I'm not being argumentative at all. I don't doubt your experiences and I respect your issues with Ford. I'm sure I'd feel the same way.

Cheers Bro. Good chatting with you. Meanwhile, you have some issues to defend.....