CR1 question, special case.

[QAtester 0]

Hello all

New member here. I want to start by thanking everyone for sharing their experiences as this has been a tremendous help for me in getting my initial I-130 paperwork sent to USCIS.

I would like to ask a question. If all goes as planned I assume that my wife (non resident alien) will have her interview for the CR1 visa prior to us actually holding a wedding. The culture in Saudi Arabia which we both originally from preforms weddings in this order, the legal part is taken care of at the court house which makes the couple legally wedded, immediately after that the families hold an engagement party which starts an engagement period then months later the wedding is held and after that point the consummation of marriage occurs. Please note that after the legal part is done the couple is legally considered married and in fact if the couple would to split up then they would go through a divorce procedure as would any other married couple.

My questions are.

1- Do you see anyway that I will have an issue at the interview level that the wedding party did not yet happen, I only had the legal court document that shows us as legally married and we held and engagement party at which we took plenty of photos?

2- Do you recommend that I attend my wife's CR1 interview? do you think that would make a difference for my interview? is there any advantage to the petitioner to be there vs, not being there?

please let me know if you have applied for the CR-1 visa under similar circumstances. I would really like to hear your thoughts.

Thank you all again and good luck

[New Beginnings 32]

I think the problem with that is that the marriage needs to be consumated to be considered a marriage for the sake of the petition...

Someone correct me if I'm wrong

[MrsAmera 41]

New Beginnings is right - they may very well ask if the marriage has been consummated. I have heard of CO's asking such questions and much more probing quesitons before!

[morocco4ever 63]

You get married legally but don't consummate the marriage for months until the wedding party? I have never heard of this custom before. How can you have an engagement period after the legal part? Weird. I would assume that if this is the custom there the consulate would know, but I have read where the marriage has to be consummated for the immigration process.

[New Beginnings 32]

You get married legally but don't consummate the marriage for months until the wedding party? I have never heard of this custom before. How can you have an engagement period after the legal part? Weird. I would assume that if this is the custom there the consulate would know, but I have read where the marriage has to be consummated for the immigration process.

It's actually quite common, even in Morocco

This happened with my sister in law in Morocco, she got engaged to someone, the papers were filed with the court but they don't consider themselves married until the ceremony and the adoul and such. When she and her fiance broke up she actually had to go to court and divorce him, well technically it was an annulement since it was never consummated.

[morocco4ever 63]

It's actually quite common, even in Morocco

This happened with my sister in law in Morocco, she got engaged to someone, the papers were filed with the court but they don't consider themselves married until the ceremony and the adoul and such. When she and her fiance broke up she actually had to go to court and divorce him, well technically it was an annulement since it was never consummated.

Interesting. So if it is filed with the courts, but has not gone in front of the adoul, do they have an actual marriage certificate to submit with the I-130?

[New Beginnings 32]

Interesting. So if it is filed with the courts, but has not gone in front of the adoul, do they have an actual marriage certificate to submit with the I-130?

Nope, the marriage certificates come from the Adoul's offices. At least in Morocco

Edited January 25, 2010 by New Beginnings

[Princess In Love 0]

Salam, you don't have to worry, the same happened to me, i got married at the court and got a small engagement party without consuming the marriage, at the interview i just told them that i had a small party because we didn't have time to plan for something bigger and there was no problem, the CO didn't ask me if we consumed our marriage or not....i had my wedding party 2 months after i got my visa ...best of luck

[LRA 0]

My questions are.

1- Do you see anyway that I will have an issue at the interview level that the wedding party did not yet happen, I only had the legal court document that shows us as legally married and we held and engagement party at which we took plenty of photos?

2- Do you recommend that I attend my wife's CR1 interview? do you think that would make a difference for my interview? is there any advantage to the petitioner to be there vs, not being there?

Answers:

1. They are very well aware of the cultural norms of the country...as a matter of fact many MENA countries have this custom. You are legally married.....even though they call it engaged in social circles in your and many MENA countries...you are legally married. As you are legally married, the United States recognizes this marriage....BUT you can only be married to one person under US law, while in some Arabic countries you can married to more than one legally..the US will not recognize these types and if I am not mistaken will consider only the first your legal wife. You should refer to your SO as you wife to any US government official....only in your country do the social norms obligate you to refer to her as your "fiancee".

2. If you can afford to be there then I would go. I would check with the consulate to determine if you can accually escourt her into the consulate. I think you being there to clarify any issues the pop up is paramount. Especially if you are well versed in the immigration laws and your petition and can elaborate on any questions/issues. I think the CO seeing you in person/or knowing you are in-country with your wife is a huge plus.

[MrsAmera 41]

Salam, you don't have to worry, the same happened to me, i got married at the court and got a small engagement party without consuming the marriage, at the interview i just told them that i had a small party because we didn't have time to plan for something bigger and there was no problem, the CO didn't ask me if we consumed our marriage or not....i had my wedding party 2 months after i got my visa ...best of luck

You may have gotten lucky they didn't ask. I have heard of several others where they asked this and they also asked many more personal questions. Something to be very aware of.

[LRA 0]

Interesting. So if it is filed with the courts, but has not gone in front of the adoul, do they have an actual marriage certificate to submit with the I-130?

As an aside, there is no separation of "mosque" and state in most (all?) islamic countries. The Sharia court presides over Islamic marriages...which involve legally binding marriage countracts. The judge is a religous elder who is versed in Sharia law (islamic law). Once this contract is signed by both parties, a male relative of the female who is supposed to act in her best interests, and witnesses, the couple is married. They can then spend time alone together and go out in public together. That is the social part so that neighbors won't whisper about the girl and her family. The consummation part in these contracts help to dictate the dowry part and what the spouse receives in cases of divorce. I think the female receives less then what is stipulated in teh contract if there is no consummation.There are other items as well...if the marriage was consummated then the female cannot marry for I believe 3 visits from "aunt flo". This is used to help ensure that the previous husband is no the father of child in the new pregnancy. Additionally, many deals are done behind the scenes at divorce time (pre-consummation and post-consummation)....the dealings include what is returned, if any, of the dowry what amount is given when the divorce is granted. I think also who initiates the divorce is a factor. Up until a few years ago, I don't think women could initiate a divorce. Again these could be Jordanian cultural norms or laws particular to Jordan. These are based on what I have witnessed and experienced.

[LRA 0]

You may have gotten lucky they didn't ask. I have heard of several others where they asked this and they also asked many more personal questions. Something to be very aware of.

I would venture out and say that consulates understand the cultures and respect the social norms of these countries. Maybe I am old school, maybe we got the benefit of the doubt b/c 99% of both our family still lives in the same town and there is no way in he!! I would have stood mum (and not in a good way) if any such questions were raised.

[New Beginnings 32]

As an aside, there is no separation of "mosque" and state in most (all?) islamic countries. The Sharia court presides over Islamic marriages...which involve legally binding marriage countracts. The judge is a religous elder who is versed in Sharia law (islamic law). Once this contract is signed by both parties, a male relative of the female who is supposed to act in her best interests, and witnesses, the couple is married. They can then spend time alone together and go out in public together. That is the social part so that neighbors won't whisper about the girl and her family. The consummation part in these contracts help to dictate the dowry part and what the spouse receives in cases of divorce. I think the female receives less then what is stipulated in teh contract if there is no consummation.There are other items as well...if the marriage was consummated then the female cannot marry for I believe 3 visits from "aunt flo". This is used to help ensure that the previous husband is no the father of child in the new pregnancy. Additionally, many deals are done behind the scenes at divorce time (pre-consummation and post-consummation)....the dealings include what is returned, if any, of the dowry what amount is given when the divorce is granted. I think also who initiates the divorce is a factor. Up until a few years ago, I don't think women could initiate a divorce. Again these could be Jordanian cultural norms or laws particular to Jordan. These are based on what I have witnessed and experienced.

In Morocco that is not true. Woman can initiate the divorce but they would need to wait 3 menstrual cycles before re-marrying.

[New Beginnings 32]

I would venture out and say that consulates understand the cultures and respect the social norms of these countries. Maybe I am old school, maybe we got the benefit of the doubt b/c 99% of both our family still lives in the same town and there is no way in he!! I would have stood mum (and not in a good way) if any such questions were raised.

Yes you would hope that they would, but unfortunately they don't. One of the qualifiers is that they be legally married (which they are) and have consummated the marriage. This also plays out when people get married by proxy, when they're not even in the same country when they get married. Some states allow this.. I think TX is one of them. But they are not able to file the petition until the marriage is consummated.

If I remember correctly from the petitions the only ones that speak anything of cultural norms is the I 129 or I 129f if you're filing for K3. But the question which asks this is skipped by married people.

[Lia792 5]

I would definitely contact the embassy and ask. You don't want to get there and be denied for not knowing their rules.