Best Places to Live in the US

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

... although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household.

That will make me strike NM out of my list ... I wonder if you can have more than 6 fish in your aquarium ...

Seems like lawmakers in NM have nothing to do...

[minha_raposa 0]

... although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household.

That will make me strike NM out of my list ... I wonder if you can have more than 6 fish in your aquarium ...

Seems like lawmakers in NM have nothing to do...

You got that right. Contrary to sparks, here are a few of the excerpts of this ridiculos ordinance.

ABQ Animal Ordinance

Environmental Enrichment. Owners shall provide safe products, appropriate for the species, that will stimulate mental, physical and grooming activities.

(A) Leash Law. All Animals, other than wild Animals not owned by any human, must be restricted at all times by either a Secure Fence, a Secure Facility, a Secure Enclosure, secured in the back of a pickup truck, inside a vehicle with proper ventilation, or be on a leash no longer than 8 feet long accompanied by a person able to control the Animal.

(1) Companion Animals kept in Cages or Crates indoors must be kept in a Crate, Cage or enclosure larger than that required for Boarding Kennels, Pet Stores and Animal Shelters in § 9-2-2-4 of this ordinance.

Trolley. A person may apply for a Trolley Permit as a means of restricting an Animal to one's property. Trolleys shall be used for no longer than nine hours in a twenty-four hour period. The animal attached to a Trolley shall be surrounded by a barrier sufficient to protect the Animal from At Large animals. The barrier shall be sufficient to prevent children from accidentally coming into contact with the chained animal. To use a Trolley, the Owner must have a valid Trolley Permit.

(1) Food. Mammals and birds shall be provided with uncontaminated, edible, nutritious food, which is of adequate quantity as to maintain the normal weight and condition of a healthy Animal. Additionally, the amount of food administered and feeding times must properly conform to the individual Animal's age and condition. Food should be stored in a rodent proof and insect proof container. Open food must be kept in covered, washable containers. Refrigeration shall be available and used for partially consumed cans of food. Food and water dishes must not be made of plastic and must be washed after every meal. There should be a designated area available to wash dishes with hot water and the appropriate disinfectant.

(2) Water. Mammals and birds shall be provided with constant access to a supply of Potable Water in sufficient amount as to maintain good health as required by the species whether the Animal is outdoors or indoors.

(B) Indoor - Secure Facility.

(1) Minimum floor space and other requirements for cats.

(a) Cats shall have a minimum of four square feet of flat floor space and twenty-two inches of vertical space.

(a) Dogs weighing less than 30 pounds shall have eight square feet of flat floor space and two feet of vertical space per dog.

(B) Dogs weighing between 30 and 65 pounds shall have 12 square feet of flat floor space and three feet of vertical space per dog.

© Dogs that weigh more than 65 pounds shall have 24 square feet of flat floor space and three feet of vertical space per dog.

(2) Adequate Shelter and shade. Animals that are not allowed free access to go inside a building must be provided with Adequate Shelter and shade. A structure that provides Adequate Shelter might not provide adequate shade: for example, a doghouse that protects the dog from wind and rain may be too hot inside when exposed to direct sunlight during the warmer months so shade must also be provided. Outside housing shall protect Animals from any extreme weather conditions that may be detrimental to the health or comfort of the Animals. Suitable drainage must be provided and there can be no standing water.

As for dogs... once the new HEART ordinance goes into effect, the city of ABQ regulate how you are allowed to play with your dog, what kind of (required) toys you are allowed give, what kind of bowl your dog is allowed to eat from, annual registration and fee requirements, etc.. Thanks Sally Maes!!!

Err. The requirements about toys and things like that were removed before the law was passed. And registering your pet has always been a requirement. The fees for pet ownership are not increasing, only the fees for having an unspayed/unneutered animal, and the number of litters per dog and per owner is limited.

For people who spay/neuter their pets like responsible owners, the only real difference is the microchipping requirement (and you can get the chip for $6 at the humane society to take to your vet to inject--or to inject yourself if you know how), although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household. And the law also increased the amount of time shelters will hold pets before putting them down, which is surely a good thing.

Not true. look at my last post and the highlighted points. Straight from this absurd document. Personally I dont give a flip, but I KNOW Ms. Mayer 's ongoing BS she puts to council and she is a frigging NUT first class! Took 3 years to write this ordinance to. There is much more to this than I will go into here, but it does not JUST deal with protecting animals. It's as much about getting probable cause to enter your property for alterior reasons.

[PlatyPius 5]

Quote "Somewhere there is the perfect town - full of liberals and former hippies - with farmer's markets and community gardens and libraries and a dog park. The housing costs are reasonable, the wages are decent (especially for nurses). Lots of international food. Tolerable weather. Lots of lakes, rivers ... maybe near the ocean? Traffic that won't make you drive off of a bridge."End quote

Could I suggest my new hometown, Missoula, Montana? Very liberal, university town full of dogs and coffee shops, former hippies, writers, farmer's market twice a week, craft market on Saturdays, cinemas, theatres, skiing in winter, 'floating' on the river in the summer...and the Stones are playing at the university stadium in October.

Has all of the things you mention apart from decent wages (although may be different for medical staff!) and 'tolerable weather' is subjective. Here it's hot/warm and dry in summer, cold but dry in winter (so not bone chillingly cold). And no sales tax. I love it!!

Alison

I'd have to agree with Alison. Missoula is a great place.

I lived in Wyoming for several years. No state income tax, no real crime to speak of, bunches of hippie-types (the real ones, not the new, fake ones) living in cabins in the mountains, water you can actually drink from streams (too cold for most things to live in), reasonably close to some large cities, etc. However, there are very few jobs (why I'm back in Indiana), and the state itself is pretty conservative.

Laramie, one of the places I lived, is one of the liberal towns. From Laramie, it's not too far to Fort Collins, CO - which is EXACTLY what you're looking for, it sounds like - and Denver is about 2.5 hours away. I would recommend Ft. Collins or Missoula, MT.

[sparkofcreation 0]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

As for dogs... once the new HEART ordinance goes into effect, the city of ABQ regulate how you are allowed to play with your dog, what kind of (required) toys you are allowed give, what kind of bowl your dog is allowed to eat from, annual registration and fee requirements, etc.. Thanks Sally Maes!!!

Err. The requirements about toys and things like that were removed before the law was passed. And registering your pet has always been a requirement. The fees for pet ownership are not increasing, only the fees for having an unspayed/unneutered animal, and the number of litters per dog and per owner is limited.

For people who spay/neuter their pets like responsible owners, the only real difference is the microchipping requirement (and you can get the chip for $6 at the humane society to take to your vet to inject--or to inject yourself if you know how), although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household. And the law also increased the amount of time shelters will hold pets before putting them down, which is surely a good thing.

Not true. look at my last post and the highlighted points. Straight from this absurd document. Personally I dont give a flip, but I KNOW Ms. Mayer 's ongoing BS she puts to council and she is a frigging NUT first class! Took 3 years to write this ordinance to. There is much more to this than I will go into here, but it does not JUST deal with protecting animals. It's as much about getting probable cause to enter your property for alterior reasons.

And show me, please, where the law says how many and what kind of toys pets must have, or "how you should play with your dog"?

... although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household.

That will make me strike NM out of my list ... I wonder if you can have more than 6 fish in your aquarium ...

Sorry, I mis-typed. More than six cats and dogs in one household requires a permit. Also, no more than 15 rabbits or 15 chickens. You can have as many fish as you want.

ETA: Why aren't my quote tags working?!

Edited July 29, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[sarah and hicham 3]

SANTA BARBARA CALIFORNIA!

[sparkofcreation 0]

... although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household.

That will make me strike NM out of my list ... I wonder if you can have more than 6 fish in your aquarium ...

Seems like lawmakers in NM have nothing to do...

You got that right. Contrary to sparks, here are a few of the excerpts of this ridiculos ordinance.

ABQ Animal Ordinance

Environmental Enrichment. Owners shall provide safe products, appropriate for the species, that will stimulate mental, physical and grooming activities.

(A) Leash Law. All Animals, other than wild Animals not owned by any human, must be restricted at all times by either a Secure Fence, a Secure Facility, a Secure Enclosure, secured in the back of a pickup truck, inside a vehicle with proper ventilation, or be on a leash no longer than 8 feet long accompanied by a person able to control the Animal.

(1) Companion Animals kept in Cages or Crates indoors must be kept in a Crate, Cage or enclosure larger than that required for Boarding Kennels, Pet Stores and Animal Shelters in § 9-2-2-4 of this ordinance.

Trolley. A person may apply for a Trolley Permit as a means of restricting an Animal to one's property. Trolleys shall be used for no longer than nine hours in a twenty-four hour period. The animal attached to a Trolley shall be surrounded by a barrier sufficient to protect the Animal from At Large animals. The barrier shall be sufficient to prevent children from accidentally coming into contact with the chained animal. To use a Trolley, the Owner must have a valid Trolley Permit.

(1) Food. Mammals and birds shall be provided with uncontaminated, edible, nutritious food, which is of adequate quantity as to maintain the normal weight and condition of a healthy Animal. Additionally, the amount of food administered and feeding times must properly conform to the individual Animal's age and condition. Food should be stored in a rodent proof and insect proof container. Open food must be kept in covered, washable containers. Refrigeration shall be available and used for partially consumed cans of food. Food and water dishes must not be made of plastic and must be washed after every meal. There should be a designated area available to wash dishes with hot water and the appropriate disinfectant.

(2) Water. Mammals and birds shall be provided with constant access to a supply of Potable Water in sufficient amount as to maintain good health as required by the species whether the Animal is outdoors or indoors.

(B) Indoor - Secure Facility.

(1) Minimum floor space and other requirements for cats.

(a) Cats shall have a minimum of four square feet of flat floor space and twenty-two inches of vertical space.

(a) Dogs weighing less than 30 pounds shall have eight square feet of flat floor space and two feet of vertical space per dog.

(B) Dogs weighing between 30 and 65 pounds shall have 12 square feet of flat floor space and three feet of vertical space per dog.

© Dogs that weigh more than 65 pounds shall have 24 square feet of flat floor space and three feet of vertical space per dog.

(2) Adequate Shelter and shade. Animals that are not allowed free access to go inside a building must be provided with Adequate Shelter and shade. A structure that provides Adequate Shelter might not provide adequate shade: for example, a doghouse that protects the dog from wind and rain may be too hot inside when exposed to direct sunlight during the warmer months so shade must also be provided. Outside housing shall protect Animals from any extreme weather conditions that may be detrimental to the health or comfort of the Animals. Suitable drainage must be provided and there can be no standing water.

As for dogs... once the new HEART ordinance goes into effect, the city of ABQ regulate how you are allowed to play with your dog, what kind of (required) toys you are allowed give, what kind of bowl your dog is allowed to eat from, annual registration and fee requirements, etc.. Thanks Sally Maes!!!

Err. The requirements about toys and things like that were removed before the law was passed. And registering your pet has always been a requirement. The fees for pet ownership are not increasing, only the fees for having an unspayed/unneutered animal, and the number of litters per dog and per owner is limited.

For people who spay/neuter their pets like responsible owners, the only real difference is the microchipping requirement (and you can get the chip for $6 at the humane society to take to your vet to inject--or to inject yourself if you know how), although you now have to get written authorization to have more than six pets in a household. And the law also increased the amount of time shelters will hold pets before putting them down, which is surely a good thing.

Not true. look at my last post and the highlighted points. Straight from this absurd document. Personally I dont give a flip, but I KNOW Ms. Mayer 's ongoing BS she puts to council and she is a frigging NUT first class! Took 3 years to write this ordinance to. There is much more to this than I will go into here, but it does not JUST deal with protecting animals. It's as much about getting probable cause to enter your property for alterior reasons.

Oh, having read further, which I encourage you to do (the full text is here: http://www.cabq.gov/council/pdf/O-135fsfin.pdf ):

That section [section 9-2-2-4] deals with how animal shelters and pet stores must treat their animals. Not how you have to treat them in your house.

I notice the site you linked to conveniently fails to mention that for the sake of sensationalism. That's why I went and looked up the actual law.

Edited July 29, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[PlatyPius 5]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

Remember you said that if they decide to start monitoring you and how you care for your animals. Far-fetched? Yes. However, that is what this law seems to allow. How else will they know that the size of any cages are adequate? That you feed the animal the proper amount, at the proper time, and that you're NOT using a plastic bowl?

Laws such as this provide far too much of an opportunity for governments to intrude and monitor what goes on in your own home. Yes, I believe that animals should be protected. However, I also believe in the right to be safe and secure against unreasonable searches and seizures in my own home.

As I said, a little far fetched. That's what people thought about taxes on your income at one time, too.

[Nessa 23]

No idea but heres a thought:

Start spreading the news

I'm leaving today

I want to be a part of it, New York, New York

These vagabond shoes

Are longing to stray

And make a brand new start of it

New York, New York

I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps

to find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap

These little town blues

Are melting away

I'll make a brand new start of it

In old New York

If I can make it there

I'll make it anywhere

It's up to you, New York, New York.

I want to wake up in the city that never sleeps

To find I'm king of the hill, top of the heap

A number one

These little town blues

Are melting away

I'll make a brand new start of it

In old New York

If I can make it there

I'll make it anywhere

It's up to you, New York, New York

[sparkofcreation 0]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

Remember you said that if they decide to start monitoring you and how you care for your animals. Far-fetched? Yes. However, that is what this law seems to allow. How else will they know that the size of any cages are adequate? That you feed the animal the proper amount, at the proper time, and that you're NOT using a plastic bowl?

Laws such as this provide far too much of an opportunity for governments to intrude and monitor what goes on in your own home. Yes, I believe that animals should be protected. However, I also believe in the right to be safe and secure against unreasonable searches and seizures in my own home.

As I said, a little far fetched. That's what people thought about taxes on your income at one time, too.

The entire section quoted above by minha_raposa actually refers to pet stores and animal shelters. Nowhere does it regulate how much space dogs and cats must have in private homes, what sorts of bowls they must have, or anything else. I repeat, the section she quoted does not apply to private citizens but only to pet stores and animal shelters.

Many other things on the site she linked to are false. For example, it says that you can be charged with animal cruelty for having your dog off-leash at a dog park. Now, I don't have a dog so I've never been, but I've never seen a dog park that didn't have a fence around it. And the law says your dog must be contained by a fence *or* a leash. So if the dog park is fenced, the dog can be off-leash.

Most of the provisions of the law are also not new. You've always been required to register your pet, keep its vaccinations up-to-date, not let it roam, etc. I've never lived in any city that didn't have laws requiring those things (and I've lived in seven cities in four states), even though very few people follow them.

Edited July 29, 2006 by sparkofcreation

[Nessa 23]

Call me whatever u want, but theres only 1 place i'd live in US, and thats where my love is.

*waits for the lonely people to fire back*

[sparkofcreation 0]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

Remember you said that if they decide to start monitoring you and how you care for your animals. Far-fetched? Yes. However, that is what this law seems to allow. How else will they know that the size of any cages are adequate? That you feed the animal the proper amount, at the proper time, and that you're NOT using a plastic bowl?

Laws such as this provide far too much of an opportunity for governments to intrude and monitor what goes on in your own home. Yes, I believe that animals should be protected. However, I also believe in the right to be safe and secure against unreasonable searches and seizures in my own home.

As I said, a little far fetched. That's what people thought about taxes on your income at one time, too.

The entire section quoted above by minha_raposa actually refers to pet stores and animal shelters. Nowhere does it regulate how much space dogs and cats must have in private homes, what sorts of bowls they must have, or anything else. I repeat, the section she quoted does not apply to private citizens but only to pet stores and animal shelters.

Many other things on the site she linked to are false. For example, it says that you can be charged with animal cruelty for having your dog off-leash at a dog park. Now, I don't have a dog so I've never been, but I've never seen a dog park that didn't have a fence around it. And the law says your dog must be contained by a fence *or* a leash. So if the dog park is fenced, the dog can be off-leash.

Most of the provisions of the law are also not new. You've always been required to register your pet, keep its vaccinations up-to-date, not let it roam, etc. I've never lived in any city that didn't have laws requiring those things (and I've lived in seven cities in four states), even though very few people follow them.

I shoudl go to bed ... but I just noticed the site minha_raposa links to does mention that the Mayor has said that off-leash dog parks are considered to have Secure fences and therefore dogs can be off-leash, but then the site says that a Secure Fence is meant to keep the animal inside it from coming into contact with other animals, so how can it apply to a dog park?

Well, reading it the way that (obviously biased) site wants you to read it, it is also illegal to have your four permitted dogs in the same yard, or for you to go out in the yard to play with your dog since there is not a fence between you and it. That's obviously untrue, and while it should probably have said "keep the animal or animals and people inside the fence from having contact with other animals and people outside the fence" it's obvious that's what it means. Legislatures write badly worded laws all the time, but that's why we have the court system.

[PlatyPius 5]

Call me whatever u want, but theres only 1 place i'd live in US, and thats where my love is.

*waits for the lonely people to fire back*

I shall call you.........

NESSA

Whatcha think of THAT, hmmm?

[Nessa 23]

call me cab driver or robert deniro or the never sleep person its almost 5am here (

i wanna sleep

[minha_raposa 0]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

Remember you said that if they decide to start monitoring you and how you care for your animals. Far-fetched? Yes. However, that is what this law seems to allow. How else will they know that the size of any cages are adequate? That you feed the animal the proper amount, at the proper time, and that you're NOT using a plastic bowl?

Laws such as this provide far too much of an opportunity for governments to intrude and monitor what goes on in your own home. Yes, I believe that animals should be protected. However, I also believe in the right to be safe and secure against unreasonable searches and seizures in my own home.

As I said, a little far fetched. That's what people thought about taxes on your income at one time, too.

The entire section quoted above by minha_raposa actually refers to pet stores and animal shelters. Nowhere does it regulate how much space dogs and cats must have in private homes, what sorts of bowls they must have, or anything else. I repeat, the section she quoted does not apply to private citizens but only to pet stores and animal shelters.

Many other things on the site she linked to are false. For example, it says that you can be charged with animal cruelty for having your dog off-leash at a dog park. Now, I don't have a dog so I've never been, but I've never seen a dog park that didn't have a fence around it. And the law says your dog must be contained by a fence *or* a leash. So if the dog park is fenced, the dog can be off-leash.

Most of the provisions of the law are also not new. You've always been required to register your pet, keep its vaccinations up-to-date, not let it roam, etc. I've never lived in any city that didn't have laws requiring those things (and I've lived in seven cities in four states), even though very few people follow them.

Frankly, your full of sh*t, and apparently have NOT ready each section of the ordiance. These section are covered under BOTH parts of the ordinance. As for the website, you obviusly did not look for the actual ordinance link that I quoted from. I've been following this BS from the beginning, and apparently, you just got here and suddenly you are an expert on all things Albuquerque.

You need to go back and read the law because if you DID you would know that Pet stores are no longer allowed to sell dogs or cats (as you quoted above)!

You think it's cool and you know so much? Well, I can assure you that if not already, you WILL do something that violates this ordinance that constitutes animal cruelty under the ordinance which can result in probable cause for the government to come into your home.

Sorry, but I don't have time to debate your ignorance or put up with your sarcasm. I've nothing else to add with you. Take care!

[minha_raposa 0]

Oh no! I have to feed my cat and clean her bowl! I can't leave her locked in a tiny cage all day and I can't leave her tied up in the yard with no shelter! Whatever will I do?

I'm sorry, I'm totally failing to see how there's anything wrong with this lawy ...?

Remember you said that if they decide to start monitoring you and how you care for your animals. Far-fetched? Yes. However, that is what this law seems to allow. How else will they know that the size of any cages are adequate? That you feed the animal the proper amount, at the proper time, and that you're NOT using a plastic bowl?

Laws such as this provide far too much of an opportunity for governments to intrude and monitor what goes on in your own home. Yes, I believe that animals should be protected. However, I also believe in the right to be safe and secure against unreasonable searches and seizures in my own home.

As I said, a little far fetched. That's what people thought about taxes on your income at one time, too.

Cian-

You are correct. In this ANIMAL ordinance it also talks about the DEA and domestic violence, and how you can be searched and that any violation of this ordinance may constitute grounds for such things. I've also listen to attorneys talk about the potential searches fore animal abuse also presents probable cause to search for other illegal activities. Again, just another way for government to get in your house.

By the way...the author of this sad piece of work is a certifiable lunatic. Ms. Mayer (author) is also under investigation for ethics and corruption violations associated with her council activities. There is a massive effort underway to get this ordinance repealed altogether and are more reasonable legislation presented.