John Edwards... as you have never known him.

[Danno 1,228]

Um, check this one out:

FDR cheated on Eleanor. He was, in my mind at least, the greatest President of the 20th century, and among the top 4 of all time (Washington, Lincoln, Jackson being the others). I would say that he did an admirable job in keeping his promises to his electorate, who re-elected him a record 4 times.

Perot founded and ran EDS, and then started again by founding and running Perot Systems.

He's never had a corporate affiliation with IBM.

You are right... sorta,

It was EDS I was thinking of but you are wrong in that he did work for IBM as a salesman.

<<<Perot became a salesman for International Business Machines (IBM). He quickly became a top employee, filling his year's sales quota in two weeks[7]>>>

Wiki

As for FDR, I admit he is loved by the left (Progressives) but I would have rather he took the time he spent his girlfriends and invested it in preparing us for a likely war which was coming.

He may be a "great President to you but to me he sent Marines into the South pacific with nothing but Bayonets to probe the beached for mines, this cost us many thousands of lives.

IN fact so unprepared were we that servicemen had to invent contraptions on the spot to deal with such predictable objectives.

But not president is without fault, the biggest I have for FDR is his strong socialist belief system.

He seriously proposed stuff like,

FDRs 2Nd Bill of Rights

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

Ohh FDR, care to define exactly what all that means?

He of course had other ... "missteps".

-Cut 95% of Japans oil supply and never prepared for a response (until after our pacific fleet lay decimated)

-Interned Japanese, Italian and Germans citizens in camps.

-He must account for the fire bombing of hundreds of thousands of civilians targets both in Japan and in Europe.

-The world was plunged into war over Poland yet he allowed Stalin to carve out this area and others for his soviet domination.... we would spend the next 40 years teaching our kids to hide under desks in fear.

-He tried to add up to 6 new Justices on the Supreme court to advance his agenda.

- despite all the New deals , all the Gov't spending, all the promises of a better tomorrow, (not to mention endless terms in office... until death) he never delivered a sound economy.

Just look at the unemployment numbers.

It wasn't until most men were either in the military or working in a job to support the war industry that unemployment came down.. some what.

Unemployment (% labor force)

Year

1933 24.9

1934 21.7

1935 20.1

1936 16.9

1937 14.3

1938 19.0

1939 17.2

1940 14.6

1941 9.9

1942 4.7

1943 1.9

1944 1.2

1945 1.9

Holy Smokes, if it were not of our supplying Russia and Europe with military stuffs before we got in the war...could you imagine what these unemployment numbers would look like?

Roosevelt was in my opinion another Silver-spooned politician using the old- I'm for the working man... line.

But in truth he was a Big-Govt lib who only delivered jobs in or for the Government.

Perhaps that why he and Stalin got on so well?

FDR the Best of this Century?

I respectfully disagree.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

FDR cheated on Eleanor. He was, in my mind at least, the greatest President of the 20th century, and among the top 4 of all time (Washington, Lincoln, Jackson being the others). I would say that he did an admirable job in keeping his promises to his electorate, who re-elected him a record 4 times.

...and don't forget Lincoln's gay lover, Joshua Fry Speed.

[scandal 951]

...and don't forget Lincoln's gay lover, Joshua Fry Speed.

Unproven, and highly unlikely.

They slept in the bed when they were both traveling around Illinois as part of the circuit court.

That was very common in those days, when men would share accommodation at a tavern or inn while traveling.

It does not imply homosexuality.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Unproven, and highly unlikely.

They slept in the bed when they were both traveling around Illinois as part of the circuit court.

That was very common in those days, when men would share accommodation at a tavern or inn while traveling.

It does not imply homosexuality.

Homosexuality existed during those times and there is a lot of evidence that indicates Lincoln and Speed were more than just close friends. My point though is that even though he was gay or bisexual, doesn't detract from the greatness of his Presidency.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

People worry too much about politicians sex lives.

[scandal 951]

Homosexuality existed during those times and there is a lot of evidence that indicates Lincoln and Speed were more than just close friends. My point though is that even though he was gay or bisexual, doesn't detract from the greatness of his Presidency.

Homosexuality has always existed. And yes, being gay would not detract from Lincoln's (or anyone's) legacy.

If Lincoln were having a secretive affair with Speed while married to Mary Todd Lincoln, would that in your view detract from his stature?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Homosexuality has always existed. And yes, being gay would not detract from Lincoln's (or anyone's) legacy.

If Lincoln were having a secretive affair with Speed while married to Mary Todd Lincoln, would that in your view detract from his stature?

In terms of public perception? It's hard to say because back then, homosexuality was not something anyone openly admitted to. I personally think that public figures should be able to have a certain part of their life private and that the only time it is prudent to bring it into the public eye is when it demonstrates a compromise of integrity....and I wouldn't include public denial of an affair as such a compromise because that happens only when the affair has already made public - as in Clinton's affair with Lewinsky. My take is that Clinton denied the affair because in his opinion, which I share, it was nobody else's business. If Lincoln did in fact have a homosexual relationship with Speed, I'm sure there were some people who knew but respected the privacy of the two men.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Which only applies to politicians, right? Or do you in fact employ this phrase in all walks of life. You never trust a CEO, work colleque, friend who has had an affair? How does that work? Do you refuse to work with someone who's sleeping around? Do you refuse to buy products from companies who's CEO dips his wick? Do you shun friends who can't keep their pants on? This is the biggest load of bullcrap going. People who lie about sleeping around are not necessarily duplitious in all matters, in fact, there is absolutely no correlation whatsoever in being a womanizer and being ####### at organization. WHO KNEW?

As a matter of fact, YES. If a collegue is having an affair and he asks me for money, the answer is NO, why would he pay me back if he doesn't respect his wife? So yes, I am consistent. Absolutely, except that politicians can confiscate your money and don't have to get your permission.

Who knew? Who knew? Are you kidding? You're kidding, right? John Edwards is one of the wealthiest men in NC. He has, no kidding, the largest private home in NC. I have nothing against being rich, poverty sucks, actually. But... He doctored his books of his law firm and paid himself minimum wage and then the rest in dividends which were not subject to SS and Medicare tax! Saving himself millions and cheating YOU. And now you are surprised he cheats on his wife? And then runs around and tries to hide it like he tried to hide his millions in income (from chasing ambulances and running up the cost of our healthcare with frivilous lawsuits!)

Really, do you libs ever come up for air?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

You are right... sorta,

It was EDS I was thinking of but you are wrong in that he did work for IBM as a salesman.

<<<Perot became a salesman for International Business Machines (IBM). He quickly became a top employee, filling his year's sales quota in two weeks[7]>>>

Wiki

As for FDR, I admit he is loved by the left (Progressives) but I would have rather he took the time he spent his girlfriends and invested it in preparing us for a likely war which was coming.

He may be a "great President to you but to me he sent Marines into the South pacific with nothing but Bayonets to probe the beached for mines, this cost us many thousands of lives.

IN fact so unprepared were we that servicemen had to invent contraptions on the spot to deal with such predictable objectives.

But not president is without fault, the biggest I have for FDR is his strong socialist belief system.

He seriously proposed stuff like,

FDRs 2Nd Bill of Rights

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

Ohh FDR, care to define exactly what all that means?

He of course had other ... "missteps".

-Cut 95% of Japans oil supply and never prepared for a response (until after our pacific fleet lay decimated)

-Interned Japanese, Italian and Germans citizens in camps.

-He must account for the fire bombing of hundreds of thousands of civilians targets both in Japan and in Europe.

-The world was plunged into war over Poland yet he allowed Stalin to carve out this area and others for his soviet domination.... we would spend the next 40 years teaching our kids to hide under desks in fear.

-He tried to add up to 6 new Justices on the Supreme court to advance his agenda.

- despite all the New deals , all the Gov't spending, all the promises of a better tomorrow, (not to mention endless terms in office... until death) he never delivered a sound economy.

Just look at the unemployment numbers.

It wasn't until most men were either in the military or working in a job to support the war industry that unemployment came down.. some what.

Unemployment (% labor force)

Year

1933 24.9

1934 21.7

1935 20.1

1936 16.9

1937 14.3

1938 19.0

1939 17.2

1940 14.6

1941 9.9

1942 4.7

1943 1.9

1944 1.2

1945 1.9

Holy Smokes, if it were not of our supplying Russia and Europe with military stuffs before we got in the war...could you imagine what these unemployment numbers would look like?

Roosevelt was in my opinion another Silver-spooned politician using the old- I'm for the working man... line.

But in truth he was a Big-Govt lib who only delivered jobs in or for the Government.

Perhaps that why he and Stalin got on so well?

FDR the Best of this Century?

I respectfully disagree.

True. Ironically enough, the great depression was a major cause of WW2 and WW2 was the cause that ended the depression. Absent the war, none of FDRs socialist solutions would have ended the depression. As none of Obamas will. It is impossible to take water from the deep end of the pool with a bucket, and pour it in the shallow end (spilling half of it going from one end to another) and INCREASE the water level in the pool.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Lincoln was not a **.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Lincoln was not a **.

...and Jefferson didn't sire children from his slaves.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

...and Jefferson didn't sire children from his slaves.

He did, but Lincoln was not gay.

[scandal 951]

He did, but Lincoln was not gay.

Spooky is right. Lincoln did however have a fondness for sheep.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

He did, but Lincoln was not gay.

If only gay sex would reproduce offspring then we wouldn't be having this argument.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

If only gay sex would reproduce offspring then we wouldn't be having this argument.

Tell the haters to stop attacking American heroes.