56% of all Americans and 58% of those 18-29 yrs old say abortion immoral

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

"The majority of incest is consensual. The rest is rape." Please tell me how that could be wrong? Exactly WHAT data would you like me to show that consensual sex is consensual and non-consensual is rape?

The word 'majority' has a specific meaning. I read your statement to mean that 50% or more of incest cases are consensual. If that is what you mean, I'd be interested in seeing data to support it.

[Susita 175]

factor in there as well that even consensual sex with a minor is still considered statutory rape, regardless.

[Danno 1,228]

factor in there as well that even consensual sex with a minor is still considered statutory rape, regardless.

And so we have another example of "morality creating law".

Statutory rape.

In fact even the concept of a "minor" is relative.

Q:What part of natural law says two 16 year olds can enjoy sex but a 16 yr old and a 21 yrold is wrong?

A:The communities morals.

The same force which creates laws against couples from having sex in the park. Or even a woman from walking in public topless.

Call them "standards" or "morals" or whatever people like but they can and most often do dictate laws both in their roots (which we take for granted) or in upcoming legislation.

[sachinky 465]

Interesting, civil discussion so far.

I like.

[scandal 951]

Well one reason is that birth control is now readily available in many different forms and there is something called the morning after pill which also is readily available. (and it's not just the morning after, up to 5 days after) - which is not an abortion pill BTW for anyone who isn't clear on this, it just stops you from releasing an egg so no conception can take place.

That's not quite right. Fertilization of the egg by the male's sperm does indeed take place in the fallopian tube during sex. What the morning after pill does is to chemically alter the conditions in the uterus to prevent the attachment of the fertilized egg to the wall of the uterus. Unattached, the egg is simply discharged from the woman's body.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

The word 'majority' has a specific meaning. I read your statement to mean that 50% or more of incest cases are consensual. If that is what you mean, I'd be interested in seeing data to support it.

Ok, I really hate to keep coming back and explaining things for the people in Rio Linda. But I will make an exception in your case. Call it "special education"

The debate was over whether CHILDREN that are the result of incest OR rape should be allowed to be murdered by the mothers, if someone can make that moral decision into a law which affects children conceived by incest or rape.

The statement I made, it that context, is that "most incest is consensual, the rest is rape" Whether I am correct on the percentage on not is not the issue and would matter not a whit in the argument, making the time you spend on this and I spend on this a waste of cyber ink. In fact, the majority of incest is never reported (or so they day and I am not sure how you document that) but again it matters not. I am under no obligation to provide you woth any evidence of anything, if you disagree and think there is evidence otherwise, then show it. I assume no burden of proof and it wouldn't matter anyway.

If you like I will change my statement to "most incest is not consensual and the rest is consensual" which makes no difference in the point of the argument. Happy now?

I do not agree that a woman should ONLY have a choice to have an aboriton when that choice fits a narrowly defined moral established by others. Is that simple enough or is the idea still making sonic booms as it goes overhead?

I am done bandying words. If you have something to add to so.

have you heard? Martha Coakley lost and government health care is dead.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And so we have another example of "morality creating law".

Statutory rape.

In fact even the concept of a "minor" is relative.

Q:What part of natural law says two 16 year olds can enjoy sex but a 16 yr old and a 21 yrold is wrong?

A:The communities morals.

The same force which creates laws against couples from having sex in the park. Or even a woman from walking in public topless.

Call them "standards" or "morals" or whatever people like but they can and most often do dictate laws both in their roots (which we take for granted) or in upcoming legislation.

None of these laws are needed or followed by anyone except those that impose their own personal morals to the "offense" and teach their own personal morals to their children. 16 year olds that DO NOT have sex are not restrained from it by law. Adult men that do not have sex with young girls are not restrained from it by laws. Adult men that WANT to have sex with young girls find a way to do it illegally.

Vermont has no law against public nudity yet very few people walk around naked in the general public (the occasional college student that doesn't believe he can actually do it..yes, he can) And skinny dippers at more or less secluded swimming holes and that is about it. Somehow we survie in a modern society without a law against naked breasts. Amazing.

[Susita 175]

That's not quite right. Fertilization of the egg by the male's sperm does indeed take place in the fallopian tube during sex. What the morning after pill does is to chemically alter the conditions in the uterus to prevent the attachment of the fertilized egg to the wall of the uterus. Unattached, the egg is simply discharged from the woman's body.

Actually, you're right. But that's only if there's an egg released in those same 24 hours though, and since sperm live 3-5 days (some super sperm live longer ) it can actually stop a woman from releasing an egg, and prevent pregnancy that way as well which I found interesting. It also kills sperm. But the hormones in the pill won't allow for implantation so if the egg in fact is fertilized it will just be passed (as do many fertilized eggs that don't implant).

I guess that window of opportunity accounts for those women who have gotten pregnant with fraternal twins with 2 different fathers GROSS! (don't ask - I have been forced to watch too many episodes of the "Maury" show)

I am in the OB/GYN's office quite a bit lately due to the baby on the way and you know how it is in the doc's office usually a pretty long wait. So I read the reading materials and emergency contraception happened to be one of them.

I found it interesting that so many women are still having abortions even though this pill is so accessible and really affordable, and sometimes even free.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

factor in there as well that even consensual sex with a minor is still considered statutory rape, regardless.

And would that be a case where the mother can choose to murder the child? Would that murder be OK with the morals police?

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

The statement I made, it that context, is that "most incest is consensual, the rest is rape" Whether I am correct on the percentage on not is not the issue and would matter not a whit in the argument, making the time you spend on this and I spend on this a waste of cyber ink.

Actually, it is the issue. When you put it that way, I assumed you had seen data. I was interested in seeing that data as well.

I guess you don't. It's ok.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

And would that be a case where the mother can choose to murder the child? Would that murder be OK with the morals police?

If you call 'abortion' 'murder,' then it is you who wish to impose your morals on others.

[Danno 1,228]

None of these laws are needed or followed by anyone except those that impose their own personal morals to the "offense" and teach their own personal morals to their children. 16 year olds that DO NOT have sex are not restrained from it by law. Adult men that do not have sex with young girls are not restrained from it by laws. Adult men that WANT to have sex with young girls find a way to do it illegally.

Vermont has no law against public nudity yet very few people walk around naked in the general public (the occasional college student that doesn't believe he can actually do it..yes, he can) And skinny dippers at more or less secluded swimming holes and that is about it. Somehow we survie in a modern society without a law against naked breasts. Amazing.

Your opinion is valid (to you if no one else) but I was not offering my opinion, just stating the facts as I see it, The root of most law is rooted in collective morality..... even the right to have and enforce Building codes.

NAture on it's own does not dictate stealing is wrong, in fact to outlaw theft goes contrary to the laws of nature. Animals will most certainly take what is not theirs.

Rape, killing, assault, cruelty ......all these things are natural in the animal world so where does man get his laws from, if not his own sense of morality?

You go on and on about - Do what you want just leave me alone.

Why do you think you have the right to be left alone?..... it comes from your own sense of right and wrong.

Others might not share that same concept. (in fact many don't)

When we choose to live with others we must submit to the will of the Plurality of morals, not just yours.

[Usui Takumi 1,562]

Before we jump to conclusions about men not understanding the pain of labor I'd like to get a comparison.

Does labor hurt more then a multiple gun shot wound that isn't treated for 18 hours? I'd just like to know.....and to what magnitude.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Let your conscious be your guide.

[Ban Hammer 13,676]

If you call 'abortion' 'murder,' then it is you who wish to impose your morals on others.

and if you say it isn't murder, then you could be imposing your morals on the unborn