56% of all Americans and 58% of those 18-29 yrs old say abortion immoral

[natty bumppo 297]

i was just reading about all this and they say you can get a light epidural where you are still able to walk around and stuff...

it also said this...

http://www.revolutionhealth.com/healthy-li...idural-decision

the boys were premies so they had other issues to combat first ... other than the meds that isa received. injection to delivery ... only a few minutes at best.

isa was out of the game for a few days ... something about dropping a twin load if you know what i mean.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Natty Bumppo

[rika60607 215]

I know several adults who were adopted as babies.

They never met their biological parents. They were raised in well screened middle to upper class families.

I would not want to be them. My family may suck, but it is still better than what they feel regarding their "origin".

Some of them had counseling, all of them have deep problems. May be it would be better if they never knew they were adopted.

It is a more rewarding choice because 20 years down the road your going to be proud of the fact you did what was best for the child and didnt make decisions based on what was best for you. Lets face it adopting a child (newborn) isnt easy and there is a long list of well screened people. No need to base a conclusion on the exception to the rule.

You talked about the feelings that a mother might have for a child and how they dont go away, I agree. Do you think that the feeling they had about the abortion goes away? My mom had a abortion and she still gets choked up until this day. She is pro-life and I find that most who have had a abortion tend to be pro-life.

PS I am not against adoption at all. But I know what "rejected" babies feel when they grow up. Not pretty.

Edited January 23, 2010 by rika60607

[Peikko 1,575]

It is a more rewarding choice because 20 years down the road your going to be proud of the fact you did what was best for the child and didnt make decisions based on what was best for you. Lets face it adopting a child (newborn) isnt easy and there is a long list of well screened people. No need to base a conclusion on the exception to the rule.

You talked about the feelings that a mother might have for a child and how they dont go away, I agree. Do you think that the feeling they had about the abortion goes away? My mom had a abortion and she still gets choked up until this day. She is pro-life and I find that most who have had a abortion tend to be pro-life.

I expect that those who have chemical abortions in the very early stages of pregnancy are less prone to these feelings and that's as it should be. Those who have been through a medical procedure and necessarily at a later stage of pregancy are probably more prone to this type of depression. I have no way of knowing how painful that is or isn't for each individual, but I can't imagine everyone feels the same way about it, not least because the decsions that each person makes to come to that conclusion are unique to every individual going thorugh it. What's impossible to know, in hindsight, is if giving birth and handing up for adoption would have been a less painful experience. Different of course, but less painful, less damaging? I would have thought that was impossible to say.

[natty bumppo 297]

I know several adults who were adopted as babies.

They never met their biological parents. They were raised in well screened middle to upper class families.

I would not want to be them. My family may suck, but it is still better than what they feel regarding their "origin".

Some of them had counseling, all of them have deep problems. May be it would be better if they never knew they were adopted.

PS I am not against adoption at all. But I know what "rejected" babies feel when they grow up. Not pretty.

and i know "rejected" babies who were very well adjusted and very well off with their adopted family.

your point is?

some people can adjust their adopted children ... some can't?

[rika60607 215]

How well do you know those adopted people?

How many people do you know who are well adjusted?

Guess all depends on what they will feel comfortable telling you and what your measure of "well adjusted" is.

My point is that it is cavalier to say "oh, someone will adopt them and they will be just fine". Not so simple, even in the best families. In fact, it has nothing to do with the new family and everything to do with the fact that your parents either did not want you or were not capable of keeping you (of course, unless biological parents died, that's a valid excuse).

and i know "rejected" babies who were very well adjusted and very well off with their adopted family.

your point is?

some people can adjust their adopted children ... some can't?

[natty bumppo 297]

How well do you know those adopted people?

How many people do you know who are well adjusted?

Guess all depends on what they will feel comfortable telling you and what your measure of "well adjusted" is.

My point is that it is cavalier to say "oh, someone will adopt them and they will be just fine". Not so simple, even in the best families. In fact, it has nothing to do with the new family and everything to do with the fact that your parents either did not want you or were not capable of keeping you (of course, unless biological parents died, that's a valid excuse).

they are family and close friends azzwipe ... nuff said?

[rika60607 215]

they are family and close friends of azzwipe ... nuff said?

Sorry, could not help it

[natty bumppo 297]

Sorry, could not help it

on a topic like this ... i'll not post unless i know what i'm talking about ...

we are good ... how could you have known

[DEDixon 39]

My experience is with the UK system. They are dangerous (as are all anesthetics) and are not used for pain management. The fetus heart rate can be seriously affected by them so I would be surprised if this is a condoned medical practice but then again, I am often surprised by the US health care system

uk system is antiquated, it seems.

Epidural anesthesia is the most popular means for pain relief during labor.

Epidural anesthesia is the most popular means for pain relief during labor. In fact, more women ask for an epidural by name than any other method of pain relief. Over 50% of women giving birth at hospitals use epidural anesthesia.

read more if you want:

http://www.americanpregnancy.org/labornbirth/epidural.html

you really tried to play expert here sweetheart and omg turns out you know even less than me.

[Peikko 1,575]

No Dixon, I I have experienced child birth and you have not. I experienced a painful attempt at a natural child birth where only gas was offered to manage pain prior to delivery via emergency C-section with an epidural being used as the anesthetic. I know, that the epidural slowed my baby's heart rate and I know that he needed resuscitation on birth directly as a result of the anesthetic. I know that I personally would not risk having an epidural just to manage pain because of that experience.

You on the other hand are relying on a web site sponsored by a pharmaceutical company for your information. These companies are well known for playing down the risks and playing up the benefits. Not the most reliable source of information.

Edited January 23, 2010 by Madame Cleo

[rika60607 215]

The higher you fly the harder you fall

you really tried to play expert here sweetheart and omg turns out you know even less than me.

[DEDixon 39]

No Dixon, I I have experienced child birth and you have not. I experienced a painful attempt at a natural child birth where only gas was offered to manage pain prior to delivery via emergency C-section with an epidural being used as the anesthetic. I know, that the epidural slowed my baby's heart rate and I know that he needed resuscitation on birth directly as a result of the anesthetic. I know that I personally would not risk having an epidural just to manage pain because of that experience.

You on the other hand are relying on a web site sponsored by a pharmaceutical company for your information. These companies are well known for playing down the risks and playing up the benefits. Not the most reliable source of information.

but we were not talking about your experience. we were talking generally. please, don't suddenly narrow the topic to your own experience to be right.

prove that americanpregnancy.org (american pregnancy association) is sponsored by a pharma and i will bother to find the information elsewhere. the info on epidurals (drugs) is but just one small part of the website.

[Peikko 1,575]

Your website does have an agenda

However, you are right that epidurals are used more commonly these days and appear to be relatively safe but they do not produce a pain free labour, and there are down sides, including longer labour and less effective muscles often resulting in the use of forceps for delivery. Childbirth is not an easy process no matter what pain relief is chosen.

[natty bumppo 297]

Your website does have an agenda

However, you are right that epidurals are used more commonly these days and appear to be relatively safe but they do not produce a pain free labour, and there are down sides, including longer labour and less effective muscles often resulting in the use of forceps for delivery. Childbirth is not an easy process no matter what pain relief is chosen.

c sections = no labor. just numb and pluck.

[Peikko 1,575]

When the anesthetic wears off it's bloody painful and you can't do ####### all for a fortnight.