Questions about the N-400 Application Form

[Mark UK 3]

Hi, all,

I’m planning on applying for naturalization based on three years permanent residence and marriage to a US citizen in the next month or so.

I have a couple of questions, with no doubt more to follow.

My wife and I have made many (probably around twelve) trips up to the Niagara Falls area. As anyone who’s been there knows, it’s very common to cross the border for an hour or two. For part 7 of the form, I’ve put down those days/trips where we stayed in Canada rather than on the US side, even though we most likely did cross the border back to the US for a short time during those days. I’ve added a note detailing the times we did cross the border but stayed on the US side as we didn’t spend the entire day in Canada. Did anyone else handle this in the same way (or a different way)?

For the section about children: I have stepchildren (my wife was married before me) but they no longer live with us and they are adults anyway. Should I put them down on the form? I haven’t done, though I’m mentioned them in the addendum note I’ve provided and explained that I would be happy to provide more information if it is required. Do I have to put down details about the stepchildren or is this OK?

Also, the form expired at the end of last year (12/31/2009). I do not see an updated version on the site. Is it OK to use this version?

Finally, do I have to pay an extra $465 on top of the $675 for the application for the citizenship certificate? Or do I get a citizenship certificate at the end of a hopefully successful application?

Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice!

Mark

[NickD 203]

Hi, all,

I'm planning on applying for naturalization based on three years permanent residence and marriage to a US citizen in the next month or so.

I have a couple of questions, with no doubt more to follow.

My wife and I have made many (probably around twelve) trips up to the Niagara Falls area. As anyone who's been there knows, it's very common to cross the border for an hour or two. For part 7 of the form, I've put down those days/trips where we stayed in Canada rather than on the US side, even though we most likely did cross the border back to the US for a short time during those days. I've added a note detailing the times we did cross the border but stayed on the US side as we didn't spend the entire day in Canada. Did anyone else handle this in the same way (or a different way)?

For the section about children: I have stepchildren (my wife was married before me) but they no longer live with us and they are adults anyway. Should I put them down on the form? I haven't done, though I'm mentioned them in the addendum note I've provided and explained that I would be happy to provide more information if it is required. Do I have to put down details about the stepchildren or is this OK?

Also, the form expired at the end of last year (12/31/2009). I do not see an updated version on the site. Is it OK to use this version?

Finally, do I have to pay an extra $465 on top of the $675 for the application for the citizenship certificate? Or do I get a citizenship certificate at the end of a hopefully successful application?

Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice!

Mark

You only have to account for trips outside of the USA that exceed 24 hours, wouldn't be the least bit concerned about those 1-2 crossings. Just download the latest N-400 form from the USCIS form site. $675.00 will cover all expenses including your fingerprints, no extra charges for the certificate. Also download the instructions for the N-400 and the M-476 manual. Somebody really went through a lot of trouble to combine all situations for USC, it's our job to separate them to those that meet our individual situation.

[antda 13]

Hi MarkUK,

In answer to your questions....

1) Travel to Canada....

Likewise, I have spent many days visiting in Canada too (especially since I live close to the border and am Canadian). And yeah, with that many trips, it can get pretty tricky, keeping track of them all! It doesn't help either, that Canadians don't get passport stamps when I visit Canada! So no way of keeping track that way either!

Regardless, whenever I travelled before citizenship, I used to show the border officials (on both sides of the border) my valid Canadian Passport and Green Card, and they do scan such in their computer system. So yes, they may have "official records" of such trips, even though I don't have records of such in my passports.

According to the N-400 form, they specifically ask the applicant to list "trips more than 24 hours" outside of the USA, which includes the following information: date you left the USA, date you returned to the USA, did your trip last more than 6 months, countries you traveled to, total days outside of the USA. The reason they ask this is to see if you have met the 'continuous residency' requirement in your eligibility for citizenship at the time and to see if you still have premanent residency status in the USA (you can't be more than 6 months outside of the country at one time or risk losing your status).

Try to remember as many trips as you can, to tbe best of your ability, as yes, they will ask for such when you apply for citizenship. Anything that you remember about these trips will certainly help. For example, did you travel back during a special occasion/event, season, etc., which hence will help you remember which exact dates you travelled on? Is there anyone you can ask that can help you remember such trips too (for example, did you visit anyone there?). Lol..I don't have any official records of my many trips driving over either..so I just have to rely on memory (and a little bit of help from others in remembering) there...So, start making a list and keeping a record now, if you haven't done such already, so that you will be ready when the time comes for citizenship

So I did list such trips to Canada, according to my own unofficial records, provided an explaination as to why I don't have official records in my passport, and said that if they wanted to verify my unofficial records they can find it themselves from their own official records (I can't be bothered additionally searching for and paying for records they might already have in their own government computers).

And yes, this did satisfy their requirements about recording such travels (lol..and they were impressed with my detailed list during the interview too!).

What I would recommend for you is to keep an unofficial record on your own about the trips you have made over the border over the years. Use a calendar, list, or whatever else...So in case they do ask about such cross-border Canada/USA trips in the future, you have an unofficial record already, and can verify it with their own official records. As well, if you have any additional proof of your trips (ticket stubs, itineries/agendas, photos, cards, etc.) keep those and show those as well when asked.

On my detailed list of trips to Canada....

(even though I didn't have to list such since this trip was less than 24 hours)....

I mentioned that my shortest trip was to Canada 45 minutes...

Reason: To renew my Canadian passport...since I needed an I-551 stamp in my passport because of the unreasonable delays I had for my I-751 case and I was afraid that my 1yr extension letter was going to run out (which it almost did), and that I would have no legal US status after that expires...

We had a laugh too, when the both border guards asked how long we were going/gone for...."That's it?" they asked when I mentioned such...

Lol..."declare everything and all trips", I suppose.....

Humour me...

Oh and one more note....

Cross out five years and write instead "three-applying on basis of marriage to a US Citizen"....and list trips for the last 3 years instead..

That woud help too...

Remember: Always tell the truth about such trips and you'll be ok there.

2)Stepchildren....

List them anyways, as it says on the form to do such, regardless. Just explain that they are stepchildren, and that they are grown up, and that should be good enough. It doesn't make a difference either way, as these children are not needed for application purposes, but at least it shows that you are telling the truth and are not omitting the fact that they do exist.

3) Updated Forms...

Just use whatever "latest version" of the form that they have, and they should accept that, as that's all that they have for you to submit.

4) Application Fees..

It only costs $675 (application plus biometrics fee). You fill out the N-400 form and send in the evidence and the fee. Once your application is complete, you pass the interview, and swear the oath (it is when you say the oath that you are officially a citizen), then you will get a "certificate of naturalization" (lol..to tell you the truth, it looks somewhat amateur-ish..and not worth that much money..but it is still a legal document, nevertheless...lol..)

Hope this helps too. Good luck on your journey.

Ant

Hi, all,

I’m planning on applying for naturalization based on three years permanent residence and marriage to a US citizen in the next month or so.

I have a couple of questions, with no doubt more to follow.

My wife and I have made many (probably around twelve) trips up to the Niagara Falls area. As anyone who’s been there knows, it’s very common to cross the border for an hour or two. For part 7 of the form, I’ve put down those days/trips where we stayed in Canada rather than on the US side, even though we most likely did cross the border back to the US for a short time during those days. I’ve added a note detailing the times we did cross the border but stayed on the US side as we didn’t spend the entire day in Canada. Did anyone else handle this in the same way (or a different way)?

For the section about children: I have stepchildren (my wife was married before me) but they no longer live with us and they are adults anyway. Should I put them down on the form? I haven’t done, though I’m mentioned them in the addendum note I’ve provided and explained that I would be happy to provide more information if it is required. Do I have to put down details about the stepchildren or is this OK?

Also, the form expired at the end of last year (12/31/2009). I do not see an updated version on the site. Is it OK to use this version?

Finally, do I have to pay an extra $465 on top of the $675 for the application for the citizenship certificate? Or do I get a citizenship certificate at the end of a hopefully successful application?

Thanks in advance for reading and for any advice!

Mark

[Mark UK 3]

Thanks, guys!

I really appreciate the help. I've been working on this tonight and I've included a LOT of detail about our trips to Canada. Luckily, I keep a pretty extensive diary which really helps at times like this. I don't have exact times of border crossings, but I have the vague notes that I kept over the past three years.

After re-reading the N-400 instruction notes, it does state that any stepchildren should be described on the form. One of the reasons putting them down gave me pause was that during my Green Card application, I didn't have to include them (I mentioned them on my addendum notes) even though they were at the time living with us. Still, it's better to provide more information than less. The less RFEs, the better

It doesn't matter about how amateurish the certificate looks. It'll be good to get it! I'll be getting a US passport ASAP anyway, assuming it's a successful application!

Thanks once again for your help and advice!

Mark