'Green' Electric Car Dealer Ends In The Red

[Dan J 277]

There is such a small market for most of this "green" stuff the Leftist know the Gov't must pass laws to FORCE people to buy into it, as they never will other wise.

When market conditions exist for such things... the market will go green by it's self.

Gasoline is already subsidized by somewhere between $1-2 per gallon. If we stop doing that, green options become much more competitive.

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

these must be the ones with great bs retention properties .... that periodically explode and color our world with hope

:rofl: Yes! I hope they drop a couple in my neighborhood. I need some target practice.

[DEDixon 39]

Gasoline is already subsidized by somewhere between $1-2 per gallon. If we stop doing that, green options become much more competitive.

prove it

[SMR 368]

Gasoline is already subsidized by somewhere between $1-2 per gallon. If we stop doing that, green options become much more competitive.

I am a little skeptical of this one. I know there are huge taxes on gas. I don't have any data to the contrary, but I have never heard of a gas subsidy. Do you have evidence to support this claim?

[Danno 1,228]

I am a little skeptical of this one. I know there are huge taxes on gas. I don't have any data to the contrary, but I have never heard of a gas subsidy. Do you have evidence to support this claim?

You must keep in mind when the LEFT SAYS "SUBSIDIZED" what they really mean is some tax break was legal.

It's the same things when they use the "corporate welfare" line.

To you and me, someone getting cash payments from the State is WELFARE, to them, someone or some company not "PAYING" enough tax dollars is WELFARE.

To them ALL money belongs to the State and what they let you keep is just a matter of haggling.

[Dan J 277]

I am a little skeptical of this one. I know there are huge taxes on gas. I don't have any data to the contrary, but I have never heard of a gas subsidy. Do you have evidence to support this claim?

Most of the subsides that affect gas prices are not on the end product directly like they are in some other countries. We often tax the end product and earmark the money for road construction projects.

There are two types of costs that we could consider as part of the true cost of gasoline, direct subsidies provided at any point of the gasoline production pipeline, and indirect costs incurred to support a gasoline based energy economy.

With direct costs, we are looking at anywhere between 20-40 billion a year, this is anything from tax breaks, to research grants, to low cost construction bonds.

Indirect costs can be much greater, here we are looking at costs for energy security (Iraq costs well over $100 billion a year), to pollution reduction/cleanup, to health costs of pollution. We don't pay this at the pump, just with higher taxes and health insurance premiums.

[Dan J 277]

You must keep in mind when the LEFT SAYS "SUBSIDIZED" what they really mean is some tax break was legal.

It's the same things when they use the "corporate welfare" line.

To you and me, someone getting cash payments from the State is WELFARE, to them, someone or some company not "PAYING" enough tax dollars is WELFARE.

To them ALL money belongs to the State and what they let you keep is just a matter of haggling.

Tax breaks given to one company, but not another is a subsidy. God forbid, that companies should help pay for the cost of government.

But when we talk about oil company subsidies, this is what we are talking about:

* Construction bonds at low interest rates or tax-free

* Research-and-development programs at low or no cost

* Assuming the legal risks of exploration and development in a company's stead

* Below-cost loans with lenient repayment conditions

* Income tax breaks, especially featuring obscure provisions in tax laws designed to receive little congressional oversight when they expire

* Sales tax breaks - taxes on petroleum products are lower than average sales tax rates for other goods

* Giving money to international financial institutions (the U.S. has given tens of billions of dollars to the World Bank and U.S. Export-Import Bank to encourage oil production internationally, according to Friends of the Earth)

* The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve

* Construction and protection of the nation's highway system

* Allowing the industry to pollute - what would oil cost if the industry had to pay to protect its shipments, and clean up its spills? If the environmental impact of burning petroleum were considered a cost? Or if it were held responsible for the particulate matter in people's lungs, in liability similar to that being asserted in the tobacco industry?

* Relaxing the amount of royalties to be paid

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

Tax breaks given to one company, but not another is a subsidy. God forbid, that companies should help pay for the cost of government.

But when we talk about oil company subsidies, this is what we are talking about:

* Construction bonds at low interest rates or tax-free

* Research-and-development programs at low or no cost

* Assuming the legal risks of exploration and development in a company's stead

* Below-cost loans with lenient repayment conditions

* Income tax breaks, especially featuring obscure provisions in tax laws designed to receive little congressional oversight when they expire

* Sales tax breaks - taxes on petroleum products are lower than average sales tax rates for other goods

* Giving money to international financial institutions (the U.S. has given tens of billions of dollars to the World Bank and U.S. Export-Import Bank to encourage oil production internationally, according to Friends of the Earth)

* The U.S. Strategic Petroleum Reserve

* Construction and protection of the nation's highway system

* Allowing the industry to pollute - what would oil cost if the industry had to pay to protect its shipments, and clean up its spills? If the environmental impact of burning petroleum were considered a cost? Or if it were held responsible for the particulate matter in people's lungs, in liability similar to that being asserted in the tobacco industry?

* Relaxing the amount of royalties to be paid

:rofl: Theyd all be fvckin bankrupt! Just like the guvament!

[DEDixon 39]

need to revisit the idea that an electric "green" car dealership went out of business in BERKELEY where 1000s of liberal academics live.... is it not these types who are cramming green down our throats?

besides the academics in town, hundreds of thousands of the extreme left live in the city.

the line about it going out of business because of the economy is also BS. even if 12% are unemployed in BERKELEY, 88% are still pulling a paycheck. the 88% equates to hundreds of thousands of liberals and not a hundred a month would take a chance on going green? wow! i don't know what it takes to stay in this business, but 100 cars a month seems pretty good.

take into consideration too that your typical 3bdrm, 2ba home still costs over 600,000 in Berkeley. this is not a city of chump change earners. if green can't make it here, green is in trouble.

if there aren't enough chumps in berkeley to keep a green dealership going, there are not enough chumps anywhere in the world.

[Dan J 277]

need to revisit the idea that an electric "green" car dealership went out of business in BERKELEY where 1000s of liberal academics live.... is it not these types who are cramming green down our throats?

besides the academics in town, hundreds of thousands of the extreme left live in the city.

the line about it going out of business because of the economy is also BS. even if 12% are unemployed in BERKELEY, 88% are still pulling a paycheck. the 88% equates to hundreds of thousands of liberals and not a hundred a month would take a chance on going green? wow! i don't know what it takes to stay in this business, but 100 cars a month seems pretty good.

take into consideration too that your typical 3bdrm, 2ba home still costs over 600,000 in Berkeley. this is not a city of chump change earners. if green can't make it here, green is in trouble.

if there aren't enough chumps in berkeley to keep a green dealership going, there are not enough chumps anywhere in the world.

Everything is an economic choice. Most people buy cars out of necessity, if they have the extra money they will choose something they want over what they need.

An economic downturn, not only puts potential customers out of work, but also tends to change peoples priorities. Many go from spending to saving and paying down debt.

Of course there are probably a lot of people who could by a car from that dealer, but most of them don't need a new car enough to go out and buy one.

[DEDixon 39]

Everything is an economic choice. Most people buy cars out of necessity, if they have the extra money they will choose something they want over what they need.

An economic downturn, not only puts potential customers out of work, but also tends to change peoples priorities. Many go from spending to saving and paying down debt.

Of course there are probably a lot of people who could by a car from that dealer, but most of them don't need a new car enough to go out and buy one.

in berkeley, toyota, gm, ford, nissan, lexus, acrua, bmw, porche, vw etc. are still in business. some of the mainstream dealership have went belly up, but most that have have been in depressed areas. even in the worst of times, berkeley is not economically depressed (remember most 3bdrm, 2ba starts at 600,000.... berkeley is full of millionaires). all of the other dealerships had to of been selling enough autos to stay in business so question is, why didn't the people who purchased gas engine vehicles take a chance on a green mobile? horrible product for the price?

[Dan J 277]

in berkeley, toyota, gm, ford, nissan, lexus, acrua, bmw, porche, vw etc. are still in business. some of the mainstream dealership have went belly up, but most that have have been in depressed areas. even in the worst of times, berkeley is not economically depressed (remember most 3bdrm, 2ba starts at 600,000.... berkeley is full of millionaires). all of the other dealerships had to of been selling enough autos to stay in business so question is, why didn't the people who purchased gas engine vehicles take a chance on a green mobile? horrible product for the price?

If there as many millionaires as you cliam, this is a much cooler car: http://www.teslamotors.com/

[DEDixon 39]

If there as many millionaires as you cliam, this is a much cooler car: http://www.teslamotors.com/

same thing though, does what it offers over mainstream autos justify the price? or does what it doesn't offer make the price seem ridiculous?

it is really hard to beat a gasoline engine... next best is a hybrid. i guess it is the hybrid buyers that the all-electric people have to convince really.

[Dan J 277]

same thing though, does what it offers over mainstream autos justify the price? or does what it doesn't offer make the price seem ridiculous?

it is really hard to beat a gasoline engine... next best is a hybrid. i guess it is the hybrid buyers that the all-electric people have to convince really.

If you are buying a Tesla, you are way outside of mainstream. You are comparison shopping with Porsche and Lotus. At that point your way past the a car you need, and on to a car you want.