Is America taking over Haiti?

[Danno 1,228]

Stability would be a good enough reason alone. What was it that FDR said...

Yes and I know why you are so fond of him.. you both have a socialist streak running through you.

B)

FDR seriously proposed this ... and I am sure Steve you wish it had succeeded.

FDRs Second Bill of Rights

The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation; The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

The right of every family to a decent home;

The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

How would one even have defined in Law this stuff?

[Danno 1,228]

Our humanity dictates that what Haiti really needs isn't just earthquake relief. I think I heard that there are over a million Haitians living here in the U.S.. We could really do this right.

Actually we did all this before.

The United States occupied the island from 1915 to 1934.

IIRC, We built roads schools all that stuff and it turned into a huge failure.

Of course we did not have Obama in charge then so this time might be different?

[meowmeowmeow 1]

JPost? What are you doing reading that rag?

Haaretz. Or Ynet (Yediot). Only sources I read there.

are those supposed to be credible as well?

[alienlovechild 75]

Haiti got into this dire condition because of the embargo that was imposed to the country for being the 1st BLACK REPUBLIC, they fought against the FRENCH and got their independence way back in 1804. That's over 200 years ago, but those colonial powers didn't like that and made sure that news didn't spread out to the other nations that had slaves.

A lot of time people promise aids and so on but it's all a bunch of bull it never materialize, I got the feeling some folks never got over the fact we were the 1st people who revolt against White colonial power back in 1804 to become the 1st black republic.

Those facts have little to do with Haiti's current problems. Remember the usual line is colonialism was the reason countries were mired in poverty long after colonialists left. Haiti has been independent far longer than most nations and it has failed to uplift their own people.

[alienlovechild 75]

I had a big '#######' moment last night, as I was studying a map.

Lets see - Cuban boats can get there in about 20 minutes, and boats from Puerto Rico can get there in about 30 minutes. ####### ?

Also - 'relief planes coming in at the airport'. Pardon, how are they getting refueled ?

Haiti is only the western third of the island. The Dominican Republic still has operating ports, airfields and roads. I assume there's little to no damage to the DR as I haven't a single story about it.

[Craneman 2]

I say we pull back all help and let the rest of the world take over Haiti.

See how far that goes.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I say we pull back all help and let the rest of the world take over Haiti.

See how far that goes.

Would you rather Hugo Chavez spearheaded the relief effort?

[Craneman 2]

Arggg...No further comments, as my perspective is lost.... left for others to debate.

Haiti being a Hugo Chavez pupet and draining more of his resources would be bad for who?

I say we pull back all help and let the rest of the world take over Haiti.

See how far that goes.

As a matter of fact I would, what a joke taht would be.

[FortLaudy 10]

I say we pull back all help and let the rest of the world take over Haiti.

See how far that goes.

I have to say, growing up in Africa it has always baffled my mind to see these missionaries coming over with their aid giving freely to the 'poor'... what incentive does that give those people to build their own lives if they can just sit back and relax and expect a free handout every time they're in need? It's a complete waste of money.

America needs to stop being so charitable and stop measuring success of other nations by western (materialistic) standards of success, just let them be and deal with their own problems, giving them free ####### make them even more dependent and lazy - and another phenomena, they think cause you can give for free, that you get everything for free and didn't work for what you have and don't feel bad robbing you or taking your life! In Africa my dad always taught us not to give beggers anything (especially not money) other than packets of seeds to grow vegetables and fruit, used shoes and clothing.

[alienlovechild 75]

Would you rather Hugo Chavez spearheaded the relief effort?

Sure, why not? We've had a hostile Cuba next door for over 50 years so why not a Haiti dependent on Venezuelan aid?

[Ban Hammer 13,722]

Would you rather Hugo Chavez spearheaded the relief effort?

yes. it might make the left appreciate the efforts of fema a bit more.

Edited January 15, 2010 by charles!

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have to say, growing up in Africa it has always baffled my mind to see these missionaries coming over with their aid giving freely to the 'poor'... what incentive does that give those people to build their own lives if they can just sit back and relax and expect a free handout every time they're in need? It's a complete waste of money.

America needs to stop being so charitable and stop measuring success of other nations by western (materialistic) standards of success, just let them be and deal with their own problems, giving them free ####### make them even more dependent and lazy - and another phenomena, they think cause you can give for free, that you get everything for free and didn't work for what you have and don't feel bad robbing you or taking your life! In Africa my dad always taught us not to give beggers anything (especially not money) other than packets of seeds to grow vegetables and fruit, used shoes and clothing.

It's not that we measure poverty by some kind of western standard, we look at things like - access to drinkable water, adequate sanitation, access to medical care, basic food and shelter, schools, etc. The humanitarian aid to Third World countries like Haiti has failed to bring them out of poverty, but that has more to do with the rampant corruption within their governments, and not because such aid has been a crutch to them. Think about it. You've enjoyed the benefits of a society which has provided you many things that we tend to take for granted. Did such benefits help you or make you a leech?

[mawilson 2,133]

America needs to stop being so charitable and stop measuring success of other nations by western (materialistic) standards of success, just let them be and deal with their own problems, giving them free ####### make them even more dependent and lazy - and another phenomena, they think cause you can give for free, that you get everything for free and didn't work for what you have and don't feel bad robbing you or taking your life! In Africa my dad always taught us not to give beggers anything (especially not money) other than packets of seeds to grow vegetables and fruit, used shoes and clothing.

My crackpot theory is that we *want* these countries to be poor, dependent and lazy.

Sure, handouts cost us money, but nowhere near what it would cost us if all these poor

countries became rich and started competing with us for scarce resources in a world

with many developing countries (e.g. China and India) that are already competitive

enough to be considered a threat.

[mawilson 2,133]

It's not that we measure poverty by some kind of western standard, we look at things like - access to drinkable water, adequate sanitation, access to medical care, basic food and shelter, schools, etc.

If you believe that all people should have access to the above, you are measuring them by western standards.

Schools? Medical care? You've got to be kidding me.

[FortLaudy 10]

It's not that we measure poverty by some kind of western standard, we look at things like - access to drinkable water, adequate sanitation, access to medical care, basic food and shelter, schools, etc. The humanitarian aid to Third World countries like Haiti has failed to bring them out of poverty, but that has more to do with the rampant corruption within their governments, and not because such aid has been a crutch to them. Think about it. You've enjoyed the benefits of a society which has provided you many things that we tend to take for granted. Did such benefits help you or make you a leech?

I just look at things a little different, cause I grew up with these (what people refer to as 'poor') people in Africa

I still think we look at things from a western perspective and want to 'fix' what we don't see as adequate, I'll break down your list:

access to drinkable water - I grew up hiking, in Africa a lot of the water is very drinkable, straight from the river,I would've been dead by now if it wasn't

adequate sanitation - sanitation such as toilets? = western, most people in Africa have been doing it behind a bush and wiping with a leaf for centuries.

access to medical care - most Africans would rather take the advice and medication of their traditional doctors (often what we call 'witchdoctors') than any western style doctor

basic food and shelter - they can build shelter and grow food, how do you think pioneers survived on discovering and settling in a new country?

schools - studying what syllabus? Western language, history from western perspective etc.

People like to say "everyone's the same" no they're not... different communites measure their success in life differently, here it's all about making money, in Africa it's more about the sense of community and family and living straight from the land...