Foreign Drivers Licenses - traveling before GC

[alex and astrid 38]

Be very careful about that. Each state creates it's own legal residency definition. Utah's (from the Utah DMV website) is "if the person establishes a domicile here, remains here longer than six months, engages in other than seasonal employment; or obtains Utah privileges not ordinarily afforded nonresidents, such as obtaining a driver license, vehicle registration, or placing children in a Utah school etc." By that definition, I may have become a Utah resident when I started receiving CC statements here in early August, or when I used a Utah address on my marriage license in late August, but I definitely became a resident when I registered my car in December, immediately before my Canadian driver license expired and i had to get a Utah one anyways. My GC residence date has nothing to do with when the State of Utah thinks I became a resident. Frankly, it was a little nerve-wracking, because Utah does not have even the 10-day grace period drivers in California are given. If you meet the above conditions, you must have a Utah DL, or you are in violation of the law.

California's residency definition may be similar. If you are receiving mail there, that may be sufficient to show that you have established a domicile there. State residence laws often have nothing to do with national residence laws. It sounds bizarre but it is perfectly possible to be, at one time, a resident of Utah (for DMV purposes) and a resident of Canada (but not the US) for tax purposes. I believe California's residency definition (probably drafted with illegals in mind) has nothing to do with immigration status at all, but refers to "entering the state with the intent of living there" or something similar. If you have established a domicile, or have even just behaved as if you have the intent of staying, you may get stuck badly if you get caught without a California driver license. Do a search on these forums. Some guy here got charged with it. It's quite serious, to the point where getting convicted of it could complicate citizenship down the road.

You need to be very clear with any traffic officer you encounter that you do not yet have the intent to stay permanently. You should almost certainly not give your California address as a permanent address, and you should go for your California license (at least a learner's permit, for familiarization, as you mentioned above) as soon as reasonably possible.

I know that California can be sticky with getting a licence...I looked around their site again today and this is what I found that relates to me -

All original and pending driver license or identification cards will expire on the expiration date of his/her birth date and legal presence document (BD/LP) issued by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS).

Your BD/LP document must have an expiration date 30 or more days from your application date. If your BD/LP document has an expiration date less than 30 days, you will not be able to start a driver license or identification card application.

If your BD/LP document has an expiration date of less than 60 days, you may complete your licensing requirements (written/vision/driving tests), but you will need to submit another BD/LP document with an expiration date of 60 days or more before your driver license or identification card is mailed to you.

As of today, I have 28 days until my 1-94 expires. I didn't get in a car and start driving until about three weeks ago. So, I would not have been able to satisfy the above requirements when I started to drive because I don't have anything that proves my legal presence past 60 days.

Notice of Action (I-797 Approved Petition) – must indicate approved extension of stay or change in status that grants temporary or permanent residency, or indicates that an original, duplicate or renewal Resident Alien card is forthcoming.

A NOA can be used to prove legal presence, but it has to be an approved petition. Right now, I have an NOA, but it does not prove anything about me being allowed to stay.

12505. (a) (1) For purposes of this division only and notwithstanding Section 516, residency shall be determined as a person’s state of domicile. "State of domicile" means the state where a person has his or her true, fixed, and permanent home and principal residence and to which he or she has manifested the intention of returning whenever he or she is absent.

Prima facie evidence of residency for driver’s licensing purposes includes, but is not limited to, the following:

(A) Address where registered to vote.

(B) Payment of resident tuition at a public institution of higher education.

© Filing a homeowner’s property tax exemption.

(D) Other acts, occurrences, or events that indicate presence in the state is more than temporary or transient.

I can't register to vote, I do not pay resident tuition anywhere or pay homeowners tax. I'm not sure what other acts can indicate that my presence is not transient, but right now, I am pretty much certain that the DMV would not give me a licence or even a permit at this time because I can't prove legal presence in California.

What I don't get is this. If you live in California and you have domicile here...if you make the choice not to drive or own a car or whatever, can they still ding you for not having a licence? If you don't want to drive, how can they punish you for that?

[alex and astrid 38]

Double Post, Sorry!

Edited March 30, 2010 by alex and astrid

[thongd4me 69]

I just checked the criteria for NYS drivers' licenses regarding resident foreign drivers (rules will be different

in other states so you have to check

with your local DMV):

Drivers From Other Nations

Drivers from Canada.

A valid driver license from another country is also valid in NYS. You do not need to apply for a NYS driver license unless you become a resident of NYS.

According to NYS law, a resident of another country can get a NYS driver license. The DMV does not recommend this because:

NYS recognizes your foreign driver license if you remain a resident of the nation that issued the license. You do not need to have a NYS driver license to drive in NYS unless you become a resident of NYS.

If you have a driver license from any nation except Canada, you must pass a written test, complete a 5-hour pre-licensing course and pass a road test to qualify for a NYS driver license. See "New Drivers - How to Apply".

You must show a Social Security Card. If you are not eligible for a Social Security Card, you must provide a letter or form SSA-L676 from the US Social Security Administration (SSA) that states that you are not eligible. The SSA Letter or form must have been issued no more than 30 days before the date of your application. You must also show the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) documents that the SSA used to determine that you are not eligible for a Social Security Card. The USCIS was formerly known as the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). Read the specific requirements on the identification requirements page.

When you receive your NYS driver license, you must surrender your foreign driver license to the DMV road test examiner. The local DMV office keeps your foreign driver license, and then destroys the license after 60 days. If you plan to return to your home country and use your foreign driver license, ask the road test examiner how to make sure that your foreign driver license is not destroyed. If you need to get your foreign driver license, go to the local DMV office where you applied for your NYS driver license.

International Driving Permit: An International Driving Permit is not a driver license. The permit only verifies that you hold a valid driver license in your home country. Your foreign driver license, not the International Driving Permit, allows you to drive in NYS. Contact the authorities in your home country to get an International Driving Permit. If you are not a resident of the US, you cannot apply for an International Driving Permit in the US.

You are not required to have an International Driving Permit to drive in NYS, but the permit has value. The permit verifies, in several languages, that you have a valid foreign driver license. A police officer who cannot read the language on your foreign driver license can read the permit.

Note for US residents: The DMV does not issue International Driving Permits. Contact an automobile club that is a member of the American Automobile Association (AAA).

Definition of a Resident. If you become a resident of NYS, you must exchange your driver license and vehicle registration from another state for a NYS driver license and vehicle registration within 30 days. If you have a driver license from another state, you must get a driver license from NYS within 30 days after you become a resident of NYS. If you have a vehicle registration from another state, you must get a vehicle registration from NYS within 30 days after you become a resident of NYS.

Section 250 (5) of the Vehicle and Traffic Law defines the term "resident." The law defines a resident as a person who lives in NYS with the intent to make NYS a "fixed and permanent" place to live. To live in a house, a home, an apartment, a room or other similar place in NYS for 90 days is considered "presumptive evidence" that you are a resident of NYS. A police officer can use this evidence as the reason to issue a traffic ticket if you drive in NYS without a driver license or vehicle registration issued by NYS.

A judge considers the law and the evidence of your intent and decides if you are a resident of NYS. For example, if you pay taxes or your children attend school in another state, a judge considers these facts to decide if your intent is to make NYS a "fixed and permanent" residence. The DMV will not decide if you are a resident of NYS, if you must get a NYS driver license, or if you must register your vehicle in NYS.

According to this law, students from other states or from other nations who attend school in NYS are normally not considered residents of NYS.

New Drivers: How to Get Your Driver License

The process to apply for a non-commercial driver license in NYS includes the following steps:

Apply for a learner permit. Pay the application fee and the driver license fee. Pass the vision test and the written test. Receive your permit.

Practice for your road test.

Take a driver education course or a DMV-approved pre-licensing course.

Use your form MV-285 driver education certificate or MV-278 pre-licensing course certificate to make an appointment for your road test by phone or on-line.

Pass your road test and receive your NYS driver license.

You can download form CCRP-1 (Original Driver License). The form includes a summary of the complete process that is explained below. Use form CCRP-1 to make sure that you have the documents and the forms that you need to apply for your driver license.

Edited July 28, 2010 by thongd4me

[thongd4me 69]

I just checked the criteria for NYS drivers' licenses regarding resident foreign drivers (rules will be different

in other states so you have to check

with your local DMV):

Drivers From Other Nations

Drivers from Canada.

A valid driver license from another country is also valid in NYS. You do not need to apply for a NYS driver license unless you become a resident of NYS.

According to NYS law, a resident of another country can get a NYS driver license. The DMV does not recommend this because:

• • NYS recognizes your foreign driver license if you remain a resident of the nation that issued the license. You do not need to have a NYS driver license to drive in NYS unless you become a resident of NYS.

• • If you have a driver license from any nation except Canada, you must pass a written test, complete a 5-hour pre-licensing course and pass a road test to qualify for a NYS driver license. See "New Drivers - How to Apply".

• • You must show a Social Security Card. If you are not eligible for a Social Security Card, you must provide a letter or form SSA-L676 from the US Social Security Administration (SSA) that states that you are not eligible. The SSA Letter or form must have been issued no more than 30 days before the date of your application. You must also show the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) documents that the SSA used to determine that you are not eligible for a Social Security Card. The USCIS was formerly known as the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS). Read the specific requirements on the identification requirements page.

• • When you receive your NYS driver license, you must surrender your foreign driver license to the DMV road test examiner. The local DMV office keeps your foreign driver license, and then destroys the license after 60 days. If you plan to return to your home country and use your foreign driver license, ask the road test examiner how to make sure that your foreign driver license is not destroyed. If you need to get your foreign driver license, go to the local DMV office where you applied for your NYS driver license.

International Driving Permit: An International Driving Permit is not a driver license. The permit only verifies that you hold a valid driver license in your home country. Your foreign driver license, not the International Driving Permit, allows you to drive in NYS. Contact the authorities in your home country to get an International Driving Permit. If you are not a resident of the US, you cannot apply for an International Driving Permit in the US.

You are not required to have an International Driving Permit to drive in NYS, but the permit has value. The permit verifies, in several languages, that you have a valid foreign driver license. A police officer who cannot read the language on your foreign driver license can read the permit.

Note for US residents: The DMV does not issue International Driving Permits. Contact an automobile club that is a member of the American Automobile Association (AAA).

Definition of a Resident. If you become a resident of NYS, you must exchange your driver license and vehicle registration from another state for a NYS driver license and vehicle registration within 30 days. If you have a driver license from another state, you must get a driver license from NYS within 30 days after you become a resident of NYS. If you have a vehicle registration from another state, you must get a vehicle registration from NYS within 30 days after you become a resident of NYS.

Section 250 (5) of the Vehicle and Traffic Law defines the term "resident." The law defines a resident as a person who lives in NYS with the intent to make NYS a "fixed and permanent" place to live. To live in a house, a home, an apartment, a room or other similar place in NYS for 90 days is considered "presumptive evidence" that you are a resident of NYS. A police officer can use this evidence as the reason to issue a traffic ticket if you drive in NYS without a driver license or vehicle registration issued by NYS.

A judge considers the law and the evidence of your intent and decides if you are a resident of NYS. For example, if you pay taxes or your children attend school in another state, a judge considers these facts to decide if your intent is to make NYS a "fixed and permanent" residence. The DMV will not decide if you are a resident of NYS, if you must get a NYS driver license, or if you must register your vehicle in NYS.

According to this law, students from other states or from other nations who attend school in NYS are normally not considered residents of NYS.

New Drivers: How to Get Your Driver License

The process to apply for a non-commercial driver license in NYS includes the following steps:

• Apply for a learner permit. Pay the application fee and the driver license fee. Pass the vision test and the written test. Receive your permit.

• Practice for your road test.

• Take a driver education course or a DMV-approved pre-licensing course.

• Use your form MV-285 driver education certificate or MV-278 pre-licensing course certificate to make an appointment for your road test by phone or on-line.

• Pass your road test and receive your NYS driver license.

You can download form CCRP-1 (Original Driver License). The form includes a summary of the complete process that is explained below. Use form CCRP-1 to make sure that you have the documents and the forms that you need to apply for your driver license.

I just sent a note to the DMV regarding her SSN:

My wife recently obtained her Permanent Resident status

this month and has a foreign driver's license. I know

she must apply for a NYS license 30 days after her

permanent resident status was obtained (20 July).

She just applied for her social security card with the

I-551 stamp in her passport (she will receive the Green

Card in a few weeks).

Can she start the drivers license application process

without a Social Security Number (with the I-551 as

proof of her eligibility) or must she wait until she

already has the Social Security Number?