Trying To Feel At Ease With FilipinaHearts and IMBRA

[Young Turp 0]

Hello,

I'm new here to the forums (memberwise) but have been reading them for a while. I'm an American (of course) and my soon-to-be fiancée is from the Philippines. I know that the issue of IMBRA and what constitutes a marriage broker have been beaten to death, but still, I still feel uneasy, and was hoping for solid evidence to ease these qualms. I have done a lot of reading of material from this site and others about this. And, of course, I raise this question because my (soon-to-be) fiancée and I met on FilipinaHeart (though never talked there - started on Yahoo IM, Facebook, Email, and Skype).

Here is the email response that I have recieved from FilipinaHeart:

Please be advised that section 4 (B) (ii) of IMBRA exempts dating companies

whose principal business is not to provide dating services between US

citizens and foreign nationals so long as it charges comparable rates and

offers comparable services to all individuals regardless of gender or

country of citizenship. Consequently our company is exempt as it falls

within this exemption (as do many other large dating companies).

Here is the primary contention in the IMBRA law concerning the definition of marriage broker:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ‘‘international marriage

broker’’ means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

(B) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual’s

gender or country of citizenship.

As you can see, FilipinaHeart (as well as any service including Yahoo or Match.com) would surely meet this definition. EXCEPT, for Section 4 B) ii) - FilipinaHeart is a service that specifically says in the About Us page that it is for those of Western Backgrounds and Filipinos to meet (not U.S. Citizens and a foreign national specifically). Further, Cupid Media specializes in many types of dating - worldwide dating, in fact, based on sexual preferences, niches, and more. It is not American focused. Heck, it's not even an American company, and many clients on FilipinaHearts are in Britain, throughout Europe, and in Australia, as well as in the Philippines itself. Additionally, FilipinaHeart gives the same three membership options at the same approximate cost (dollars equaling php) to all members - regardless of location or gender (I proved this by creating an account with a membership with female gender from the Philippines - then closed it down after my test was over). We may well conclude that FilipinaHearts is exempt. It is a very large company, not quite like Match.com, but still significant. Perhaps that is its advantage; it has the money to lobby (or at least copy the lobbyists) who petitioned the government for that exception (Yahoo and Match.com included).

So why all the fear (with me and others)? Because so many people continue to claim that it is an IMB, even though many other people clearly state they meet in FilipinaHearts on Part B, Question 18 (not 19) of their I-129F. It rarely seems to matter, even in the consular interview in the Philippines. Still, the fear is always there because the adjudicators literally control the fate of any two lives that seek to join.

So, my questions are thus:

A). Is it smart to include in Part B, Question 18, while describing the details of how we met, the initial meeting in FiliipinaHearts? (And no, I will not check the Yes box of Question 19 because that makes little logical sense based on my research and goes against how I truly feel the law to read).

B). Has anyone in this forum actually done this and still been approved for the K-1 Visa after the consular interview? I am dying to hear some answers to this question.

C). If I were to check Yes to Part B, Question 19, that would invalidate the whole relationship because it would not be a proper introduction due to the requirement that the IMB do a background check and send the provided information to beneficiary so that s/he can agree to an initial contact. This would really screw anyone over. How could such a situation be remedied, if it were to be so unfortunate enough as to occur? K-3 visa? A re-establishment of the bona fide relationship from the point of actually personally meeting, and from there, refilling the K-1 petition?

D). Is it commonly told by the beneficiary to the Philippines consular that the couple met online through FilipinaHearts or a similar site? Are they given much grief? Is it looked over?

E). Should I call the USCIS and ask them personally if FilipinaHeart is an IMB. I seen a response on another site that said out of a survey of 200 people who did this for Cherry Blossoms, only 2 reported that the USCIS official said that Cherry Blossoms was indeed an IMB.

For me personally, I plan to include all the details of the relationship in Part B, Question 18, and include something like this: "We initially met each other online, on a site called FilipinaHeart (which is not classified as an IMB due to Section 4 B) ii) in the IMBRA law)... We began our relationship through Yahoo Instant Messenger, Facebook, Email, and soon, Skype... etc." I don't see any reason to hide this fact; others don't seem to be. They will find out sooner or later anyway. Moreover, it is not an IMB as I understand the exemption. She will mention we met online, and if pressed, FilipinaHeart at the interview. I don't anticipate this honesty being reciprocated with a denial.

Thanks a lot guys, please let me know if my thinking is correct. I hope this is a very comprehensive analysis and inquiry of the situation, and I hope it helps many people out through its discussion =)

[THX1138 0]

My quick answer is that the law is regarding the operators of such businesses, not the consumer. They don't want the "end user" but the facilitator. The government of the Philippines doesn't mind its citizens marrying foreigners but not in an automated fashion that could be exploitative to the ladies in particular... Just my two cents....

Live long and prosper...

Hello,

I'm new here to the forums (memberwise) but have been reading them for a while. I'm an American (of course) and my soon-to-be fiancée is from the Philippines. I know that the issue of IMBRA and what constitutes a marriage broker have been beaten to death, but still, I still feel uneasy, and was hoping for solid evidence to ease these qualms. I have done a lot of reading of material from this site and others about this. And, of course, I raise this question because my (soon-to-be) fiancée and I met on FilipinaHeart (though never talked there - started on Yahoo IM, Facebook, Email, and Skype).

Here is the email response that I have recieved from FilipinaHeart:

Please be advised that section 4 ( B) (ii) of IMBRA exempts dating companies

whose principal business is not to provide dating services between US

citizens and foreign nationals so long as it charges comparable rates and

offers comparable services to all individuals regardless of gender or

country of citizenship. Consequently our company is exempt as it falls

within this exemption (as do many other large dating companies).

Here is the primary contention in the IMBRA law concerning the definition of marriage broker:

(4) INTERNATIONAL MARRIAGE BROKER.—

(A) IN GENERAL.—The term ''international marriage

broker'' means a corporation, partnership, business, individual,

or other legal entity, whether or not organized

under any law of the United States, that charges fees

for providing dating, matrimonial, matchmaking services,

or social referrals between United States citizens or

nationals or aliens lawfully admitted to the United States

as permanent residents and foreign national clients by

providing personal contact information or otherwise facilitating

communication between individuals.

( B) EXCEPTIONS.—Such term does not include—

(i) a traditional matchmaking organization of a

cultural or religious nature that operates on a nonprofit

basis and otherwise operates in compliance with the

laws of the countries in which it operates, including

the laws of the United States; or

(ii) an entity that provides dating services if its

principal business is not to provide international dating

services between United States citizens or United

States residents and foreign nationals and it charges

comparable rates and offers comparable services to

all individuals it serves regardless of the individual's

gender or country of citizenship.

As you can see, FilipinaHeart (as well as any service including Yahoo or Match.com) would surely meet this definition. EXCEPT, for Section 4 B) ii) - FilipinaHeart is a service that specifically says in the About Us page that it is for those of Western Backgrounds and Filipinos to meet (not U.S. Citizens and a foreign national specifically). Further, Cupid Media specializes in many types of dating - worldwide dating, in fact, based on sexual preferences, niches, and more. It is not American focused. Heck, it's not even an American company, and many clients on FilipinaHearts are in Britain, throughout Europe, and in Australia, as well as in the Philippines itself. Additionally, FilipinaHeart gives the same three membership options at the same approximate cost (dollars equaling php) to all members - regardless of location or gender (I proved this by creating an account with a membership with female gender from the Philippines - then closed it down after my test was over). We may well conclude that FilipinaHearts is exempt. It is a very large company, not quite like Match.com, but still significant. Perhaps that is its advantage; it has the money to lobby (or at least copy the lobbyists) who petitioned the government for that exception (Yahoo and Match.com included).

So why all the fear (with me and others)? Because so many people continue to claim that it is an IMB, even though many other people clearly state they meet in FilipinaHearts on Part B, Question 18 (not 19) of their I-129F. It rarely seems to matter, even in the consular interview in the Philippines. Still, the fear is always there because the adjudicators literally control the fate of any two lives that seek to join.

So, my questions are thus:

A). Is it smart to include in Part B, Question 18, while describing the details of how we met, the initial meeting in FiliipinaHearts? (And no, I will not check the Yes box of Question 19 because that makes little logical sense based on my research and goes against how I truly feel the law to read).

B) . Has anyone in this forum actually done this and still been approved for the K-1 Visa after the consular interview? I am dying to hear some answers to this question.

C). If I were to check Yes to Part B, Question 19, that would invalidate the whole relationship because it would not be a proper introduction due to the requirement that the IMB do a background check and send the provided information to beneficiary so that s/he can agree to an initial contact. This would really screw anyone over. How could such a situation be remedied, if it were to be so unfortunate enough as to occur? K-3 visa? A re-establishment of the bona fide relationship from the point of actually personally meeting, and from there, refilling the K-1 petition?

D). Is it commonly told by the beneficiary to the Philippines consular that the couple met online through FilipinaHearts or a similar site? Are they given much grief? Is it looked over?

E). Should I call the USCIS and ask them personally if FilipinaHeart is an IMB. I seen a response on another site that said out of a survey of 200 people who did this for Cherry Blossoms, only 2 reported that the USCIS official said that Cherry Blossoms was indeed an IMB.

For me personally, I plan to include all the details of the relationship in Part B, Question 18, and include something like this: "We initially met each other online, on a site called FilipinaHeart (which is not classified as an IMB due to Section 4 B) ii) in the IMBRA law)... We began our relationship through Yahoo Instant Messenger, Facebook, Email, and soon, Skype... etc." I don't see any reason to hide this fact; others don't seem to be. They will find out sooner or later anyway. Moreover, it is not an IMB as I understand the exemption. She will mention we met online, and if pressed, FilipinaHeart at the interview. I don't anticipate this honesty being reciprocated with a denial.

Thanks a lot guys, please let me know if my thinking is correct. I hope this is a very comprehensive analysis and inquiry of the situation, and I hope it helps many people out through its discussion =)

[VanessaTony 3,567]

I think technically it is an International PARTNERSHIP broker... not necessarily marriage just dating BUT that said, it would have to lead to marriage as the end result for the people meeting on that site to be together in any real way.

The reasoning behind me thinking this way is because it's clear from the "about me" section that the whole point of the site is to introduce foreigners to each other. One of the main issues with the site is it is now well known that people should go to that site if they're looking for filipino partners and filipino's should go there to find Western people to marry. It IS facilitating the marriages of international partners ergo, IMB.

While I think the idea of the site is pretty stupid (I don't pick partners based on nationality) I think it while doesn't fit the IMB mould.. yet... I don't think it's that far off as being classified as such.

I think mentioning the website specifically is bad because it just looks bad that you met on a site DESIGNED to match international partners. I would also simply mention "we met online" in the how you met section and not the rule that it "doesn't meet". I met my now husband through a video game though so it's a bit different but they did ask me how "online" we met. . I think the US is getting used to people meeting on that site specifically though.

Never lie to immigration, it will always come back to bite you. You went looking for a philipino girl because you're attracted to that nationality, just as she is to yours, but that it's a real relationship and not just for GC reasons is what you need to prove.

[baron555 934]

Wow that post is too long and you are obsessing over nothing.

I used Elenas Models and listed them on the I-129F since they charged me $99 to obtain the emails/addresses/phone numbers of the ladies.

I listed them on the Q19? and our petition was approved no problem.

During the interview, my SO was asked about the website and how much it cost her (free for the ladies) and how many men she had met (only one, me) and that was the extent of it.

Unless you have a criminal record or are a sex offender or former domestic abuser, you have nothing to fear from IMBRA. If you have one of these listed in your past, all is not lost but you will have to provide further documenation and certification that you do not pose a threat to your new fiancee.

[baron555 934]

[i think mentioning the website specifically is bad because it just looks bad that you met on a site DESIGNED to match international partners. I would also simply mention "we met online" in the how you met section and not the rule that it "doesn't meet". I met my now husband through a video game though so it's a bit different but they did ask me how "online" we met. . I think the US is getting used to people meeting on that site specifically though.

Never lie to immigration, it will always come back to bite you.

Understand that purposefully withholding information, as the poster here suggest, could be construed as skirting around the answer and therefore could be as damaging as directly lieing.

There is nothing to be lost from being totally honest because your relationship is real and you two want to become married to each other and for that to last forever. Right?

[Matt & Bing 56]

You wil vave no problem with USCIS or the Manila embassy stating that you met via Filipina Hearts - They have heard it hundreds (thousands?) of times.

Additionally, when I aswered the question on how we met on our aplication, I only discussed the in-person meeting in the Philippines, not how we met online.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Matt & Bing

[Matt & Bing 56]

Typos corrrected

You will have no problem with USCIS or the Manila embassy stating that you met via Filipina Hearts - They have heard it hundreds (thousands?) of times.

Additionally, when I aswered the question on how we met on our aplication, I only discussed the in-person meeting in the Philippines, not how we met online.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Matt & Bing

[Old Dominion 26]

FilipinaHearts and the other dating sites owned by the same company are by no means regarded as marriage brokers anywhere in the world. There is absolutely no reason at all to be concerned in your situation. Good luck!

[Jasman0717 9]

Claudeth and I met on Cherry Blossoms and that was never brought up during any of our processes.

[Calypso 464]

Hello Jimmy!

The_Sage1 and his fiancee, Jakriss, met thru Filipina Heart. She flew to the U.S. yesterday with her K1 Visa. You might want to read what The_Sage1 wrote last month.

I gave my fiance a fake fraud interview and I was mean as the most unruly consulate ever. She handled it pretty well. I used some of the questions that consulates have asked in the past. Since we met on Filipina Heart, I saw one consulate that somebody reported claiming that Filipina Heart is not a dating site and rather a site to just obtain a quick visa. When the fiance being interviewed corrected the consulate he got irate and said "are you calling me a liar?". My fiance came up to a remedy to this problem. We printed out the front page of our old dating profiles and stapled them together. Our last log in was Nov 2008 so you can see clearly that we met on that site at that time with proof. She's not planning on presenting this unless it's necessary. It's also necessary if they claim we *didn't* meet on there and our relationship was set up. Proof, proof, proof.

Source: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...t=0&start=0

It's also best for you and your fiancee to pray that she faces a kind and pleasant consular officer during her interview and she gets her visa easily.

Hakuna matata.

God bless us constantly.

FAE

[Calypso 464]

Scroll down and see post numbers 10 and 12 here.

[TnJ 131]

Hi...I am still not clear here. Ok, how did YOU fill out the petition? Did you mention this by checking "yes" under IMBRA?

My questions come down to this: 1) met on FilipinaHeart-how do I fill my petition?-answer "yes" or "no"?

2) what should I provide if they are under IMBRA?

3) this one is not a big issue-I have TWO total convictions not related to violence but related to alcohol/controlled substances....apparently, I should not have any concern over this one because it doesn't apply to the specifications listed under IMBRA..

I just need to know how to deal with the fact that a site called Filipina Heart gave my fiancee and I access to each other...please! If you have experience with this, please give me some details of how to go about this. I find it great that some people have done just fine with Filipina Heart. However, I am completely lost on the issue because I don't see enough specification here or anywhere. I am filing for K-1 so I know it affects me differently than some. However, this is about all I know. Thanks for any details and background. I could really use it...by the way, here a link to their "Terms and Conditions";how do you interpret this? Is it valid enough? Should I make a copy of that and attach to my "meeting" letter? As you see, there is much to be learned here. Thanks again!

http://www.filipinah.../Terms_Cond.cfm

. THE SERVICE

The Service is an internet information service that facilitates contact between members who may or may not be seeking friendship or a relationship. It is not a marriage brokering service, mail order bride service nor a matchmaking service. The Company is under no obligation to broker any other member or members for you.

4. OBLIGATION OF USER

4.1 Own risk

You acknowledge that your use of the Service and the Website is solely at your own risk.

4.12 Mail Order Bride Marriages

This Website does not, and must not be taken to, in any way, aid, procure, promote or provide “mail order bride” marriage-matching services to its users.

You acknowledge that the jurisdiction in which you reside may prohibit the advertisement of marriage-matching services or the solicitation of persons to partake in marriages.

If you reside in the Philippines, Belarus or any such jurisdiction that prohibits marriage-matching services to its residents, you hereby warrant, represent and covenant that you will not use the Service or the Website for any purpose in breach of any legislation prohibiting marriage-matching.

You hereby acknowledge and agree that it is your sole responsibility to ensure that you do not breach any prohibition on marriage-matching, and further hereby acknowledge and agree that the indemnity contained in clause 15.1 will apply to your breach of any legislation prohibiting marriage-matching.

[Matt & Bing 56]

Wow - 7 months later you are still trying to figure this out?

Answer question 19 NO (didn't meet through an IMB).

There is no need to mention how you initially met in question 18. Just the circumstances of how and when you met in person.

The only time Filipina Heart might come up is if the CO asks how you initially met at the interview. Simply answer honesty that you met online through FH.

Edited August 2, 2010 by Matt & Bing

[TnJ 131]

Wow - 7 months later you are still trying to figure this out?

Answer question 19 NO (didn't meet through an IMB).

There is no need to mention how you initially met in question 18. Just the circumstances of how and when you met in person.

The only time Filipina Heart might come up is if the CO asks how you initially met at the interview. Simply answer honesty that you met online through FH.

No, this is not the OP. I am new here and just happen to be in similar circumstances. I contacted Young Turp and appreciate all the info. you guys are sharing with me. Yes, we intend to be completely honest about any and everything. Now, my only other question at this point is this. Will the fact that I have 2 convictions relating to alcohol/controlled substances have any affect on me? I have read somewhere to go ahead and provide documents, but have also been told to not include them as it could result in an unwarranted denial. Well, my girlfriend knows everything, and I realize this does not fall under the IMBRA law. I just don't want USCIS believing I am trying to hide anything. Thanks for any and all advice!

[TnJ 131]

1 charge-possession of a controlled substance(misdemeanor-14 years ago), 2 charge-DUI(misdemeanor-8 years ago)