AOS Evidence

[mox 298]

Since you shared...Clueless, I think you have bigger problems than AOS. Anyone entering into marriage (international or otherwise) who doesn't trust his/her spouse implicitly and without reservation, is asking for trouble. If you're keeping your wife at arm's length to protect yourself, she's going to pick up on that, and you're headed for a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you prepare for her to leave you after GC, she's probably going to leave you after the GC, but not because that was her plan all along. And if you think you are legally protecting yourself by keeping her off your bank accounts, etc, think again. Any lawyer worth their salt is going to open up your personal finances like a pearly white oyster, whether her name is on them or not. Does she know that you're protecting yourself for being "scammed," just in case?

You said you run your personal life like a business, but there's a reason that "personal life" and "business life" are separate things. The one does not translate well to the other. This is the woman you're going to grow old with, not a business partnership.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Since you shared...Clueless, I think you have bigger problems than AOS. Anyone entering into marriage (international or otherwise) who doesn't trust his/her spouse implicitly and without reservation, is asking for trouble. If you're keeping your wife at arm's length to protect yourself, she's going to pick up on that, and you're headed for a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you prepare for her to leave you after GC, she's probably going to leave you after the GC, but not because that was her plan all along. And if you think you are legally protecting yourself by keeping her off your bank accounts, etc, think again. Any lawyer worth their salt is going to open up your personal finances like a pearly white oyster, whether her name is on them or not. Does she know that you're protecting yourself for being "scammed," just in case?

You said you run your personal life like a business, but there's a reason that "personal life" and "business life" are separate things. The one does not translate well to the other. This is the woman you're going to grow old with, not a business partnership.

I kindly beg to differ and sincerely disagree with your judgment about me, but thank you for the free psychological analysis.

Whoever believes on that ####### about never ending love and thinks that marriage entails sharing everything with no limits, is a total and complete fool. If what you say is true, then anybody who ever thought of using a pre-nup to protect him or herself from unintended consequences is a real a$$hole and should never be married.

I am no longer the 25-year old boy who could start over again if my wife decides to leave me and take everything she owns (because now everything is on her name) with her. I am old, and I must protect myself, no matter who I marry. And I am not the only one who thinks like, thank you very much! I prefer to end up with a broken heart than in bankruptcy.

Regarding lawyers, even in common property states like California, and even without a pre-nup, as long as what you had before marriage remains on your name, it is an uphill battle for lawyers to take it away from you. Ask around to a REAL lawyer.

And if you want to know what my wife thinks, she agrees with me in that what is hers is hers and what is mine is mine... and some things are OURS. She's not hung up on material things. If she were, she would probably not be my wife.

[mox 298]

Well good luck with that. Keep us updated on how your AOS goes, sounds like you'll be able to provide some valuable data for future filers.

[Kailey 3]

Whoever believes on that ####### about never ending love and thinks that marriage entails sharing everything with no limits, is a total and complete fool.

omg... poor guy..

[1HappyGuy 45]

I am no longer the 25-year old boy who could start over again if my wife decides to leave me and take everything she owns (because now everything is on her name) with her. I am old, and I must protect myself, no matter who I marry. And I am not the only one who thinks like, thank you very much! I prefer to end up with a broken heart than in bankruptcy.

Regarding lawyers, even in common property states like California, and even without a pre-nup, as long as what you had before marriage remains on your name, it is an uphill battle for lawyers to take it away from you. Ask around to a REAL lawyer.

Clueless, you make a good point and anyone that has been through a divorce, knows of what you speak. I think the issue here is that some people think you don't trust your wife. I think that is totally in error. But then, I've gone through the divorce merry-go-round too and starting over later in life is tough. I'm sure your wife is fine with the way you and her have structured things. What changes you make down the road is between you and her.

We all want to believe that love is eternal and forever. It may be, but that doesn't mean you jump off a bridge because you think that someone is going to catch you. Caution should be the rule not the exception in any marriage. That doesn't mean you don't love and trust your partner.

As I said earlier, I think the items you have set up should be sufficient for AOS along with tax returns. I wouldn't worry about the AOS interview.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

omg... poor guy..

The judgments that are being passed on this topic reminded me of a recent lesson I gave my wife.

She likes to go to the movies, so as soon as it came out I took her to watch "Up In The Air." She could not believe that people who worked so hard for many years for a specific company were fired that way, so I brought her back to reality and told her:

when you finally get a job, try to perform as best as you can, but "never fall in love with your job," because you never know when they will fire you without warning, and when that happens you need to be ready for two things:

1) Be alert to negotiate the best deal possible out of a bad situation

2) Be ready to move on quickly to the next opportunity, because if you get fired that way, there will be many others in your situation. Therefore, the people who react positively the sooner will be the people who will take advantage of the few available opportunities at the time.

Similar to what I said before about marriage, whoever falls blindly in love with his or her job is a fool, because unfortunately the reality is that employers could not care less about the employees (with very few exceptions) in difficult times.

[Kathryn41 3,205]

Two considerations to keep in mind . . . you are applying for the green card right now. The evidence required for that is proof of a valid marriage. Two years down the road, however, you will need to file a joint I-751 - an application to remove the conditions on the 2 year green card that your wife should receive when the AOS is approved. You might want to read up now on the evidence that they require with that application. It is considerably more than for the AOS and it does require that you show how you have co-mingled your financial, social and personal lives. There are others who for personal reasons wish to keep their financial assets separate but you will need to be able to explain why and provide substantial other evidence to overcome the lack. One thing that you may want to consider/include right now - write out your wills. Since it is your intention that you wife becomes your beneficiary making it official can be used as evidence.

The other consideration . . . my husband and I are older as well. Having joint accounts and my name listed on financial documents will make it much easier for me if, God forbid, anything happens to him. I will still have access to the accounts to pay for funeral expenses, for the mortgage and ongoing household expenses, in other words, to continue to live without finding my hands tied because I have no access to the joint assets of our marriage. Gruesome thought, yes, but when you are older other realities have a way of re-defining your priorities.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Kathryn41

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Two considerations to keep in mind . . . you are applying for the green card right now. The evidence required for that is proof of a valid marriage. Two years down the road, however, you will need to file a joint I-751 - an application to remove the conditions on the 2 year green card that your wife should receive when the AOS is approved. You might want to read up now on the evidence that they require with that application. It is considerably more than for the AOS and it does require that you show how you have co-mingled your financial, social and personal lives. There are others who for personal reasons wish to keep their financial assets separate but you will need to be able to explain why and provide substantial other evidence to overcome the lack. One thing that you may want to consider/include right now - write out your wills. Since it is your intention that you wife becomes your beneficiary making it official can be used as evidence.

The other consideration . . . my husband and I are older as well. Having joint accounts and my name listed on financial documents will make it much easier for me if, God forbid, anything happens to him. I will still have access to the accounts to pay for funeral expenses, for the mortgage and ongoing household expenses, in other words, to continue to live without finding my hands tied because I have no access to the joint assets of our marriage. Gruesome thought, yes, but when you are older other realities have a way of re-defining your priorities.

If you and/or your husband have important assets, you should look into the advantages of setting up what is called a "Living Revocable Trust," in addition to the Will and Durable Powers of Attorney.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

How a married couple handles their personal finances is their business. I could not possibly care less how you do this in your household and it matters not a whit if I agree with you or not. You are all big boys and girls and can decide for yourself.

For me, I would never enter into a LDR without complete and total trust. I would never marry someone without complete and total trust and if any fiancee ever even suggested a pre-nup or separate fiances I would dump them immediately. Immediate, absolute deal breaker. But that is just me, you do what you want and call me a fool if you will, I do not care as your opinion of how I handle my finances is as useless as my opinion of how you yours.

That said, you are going to have to satisfy some IO somehwere that you qualify for AOS. You probably will. The initial AOS is actually easier than the later lifting of conditions as they really cannot expect too much in the way of mingling finances when you have been married such a short time as most people have when they file.

[baron555 934]

How a married couple handles their personal finances is their business. I could not possibly care less how you do this in your household and it matters not a whit if I agree with you or not. You are all big boys and girls and can decide for yourself.

For me, I would never enter into a LDR without complete and total trust. I would never marry someone without complete and total trust and if any fiancee ever even suggested a pre-nup or separate fiances I would dump them immediately. Immediate, absolute deal breaker. But that is just me, you do what you want and call me a fool if you will, I do not care as your opinion of how I handle my finances is as useless as my opinion of how you yours.

That said, you are going to have to satisfy some IO somehwere that you qualify for AOS. You probably will. The initial AOS is actually easier than the later lifting of conditions as they really cannot expect too much in the way of mingling finances when you have been married such a short time as most people have when they file.

I personally echo these same thoughts, for my own personal case. I went into my "search" will total honesty and openness and trust (trust but verify for sure). I feel this level of committment showed through in my correspondence and helped me move quicker in my relationship.

I did have a family member who strongly suggested I do a pre-nup, but I would have nothing of it. My assets are already protected and I would not try to muddy the waters through any mention of other protection, etc.; of course fully trusting that my SO was also on the up and up.

This family member asked what if I lost everything? I responded that wasn't going to happen and if I did, then it would be going to help the life of a small child who in the beginning had nothing. What if I died? (Insinuating what if I made my new wife my beneficiary first.) Well, I responded, I would be dead, so who cares! (This family member wouldn't have been a beneficiary anyway.) Never was this ever mentioned again and now that everyone has met each other, I know that this earlier warning was only that and we are past that. (Subject closed.)

I have 100% trust that my new MOB wife is out to get me just for the GC. Once she and the boy have that, they intend to stay with me and continue to make my life utter hell by showering me with love and kisses and togetherness. I know that she intends to keep coming into my bed every night and holding me and not letting go. I am up to the struggle.

And I will continue to do whatever is necessary, generate different kinds of evidence, so that every future step of the continuing dance with USCIS goes smoothly and quickly. So far our luck has been good and I am sure with continued hard work, our luck will continue.

[mox 298]

I went into my "search" will total honesty and openness and trust (trust but verify for sure). I feel this level of committment showed through in my correspondence and helped me move quicker in my relationship.

I think this is really the most secure path to success--trust, openness, and faith that your partner is in it for the same things you are. The time to "trust but verify" and try to work out whether she's marrying you for love or something else is before you propose. If I had any doubts about my fiancee's intentions, I'd have either stopped it right there or held off until I was confident of her intentions one way or the other. She did the same thing for me. And I say that as another "old dude" who is also no longer burdened with many of the ideals about love and commitment that the younger, less experienced folk are. I was married for 20 years, with no clue that it was all going to end until about 19 years and 9 months, so if anyone should be jaded enough to encapsulate and protect themselves even after the nuptials, it should be me. Which is not to say that I don't sympathize with the "together but separate" approach, nor is it to say that the same thoughts didn't occur to me. But in the end I just had to understand that I either have 100% trust and faith in my partner or stay single. My new wife is not my starter wife, and if I were to change my ideas about how a marriage should work just because one woman proved to be untrustworthy, then I'd just be setting myself up for failure. I'm willing to concede that the other way isn't an automatic path to failure, but then I've known smokers who have lived into their 80s too.

[baron555 934]

But in the end I just had to understand that I either have 100% trust and faith in my partner or stay single.

And for me personally, I had to understand (and commit with all of my heart and all of my energies) that I had 100% trust and faith in myself as the other partner, or else I would have remained single.

It very well could be (cluely, did I qualify that OK?) that his possible concern about his other half is more directed towards concerns about himself?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I personally echo these same thoughts, for my own personal case. I went into my "search" will total honesty and openness and trust (trust but verify for sure). I feel this level of committment showed through in my correspondence and helped me move quicker in my relationship.

I did have a family member who strongly suggested I do a pre-nup, but I would have nothing of it. My assets are already protected and I would not try to muddy the waters through any mention of other protection, etc.; of course fully trusting that my SO was also on the up and up.

This family member asked what if I lost everything? I responded that wasn't going to happen and if I did, then it would be going to help the life of a small child who in the beginning had nothing. What if I died? (Insinuating what if I made my new wife my beneficiary first.) Well, I responded, I would be dead, so who cares! (This family member wouldn't have been a beneficiary anyway.) Never was this ever mentioned again and now that everyone has met each other, I know that this earlier warning was only that and we are past that. (Subject closed.)

I have 100% trust that my new MOB wife is out to get me just for the GC. Once she and the boy have that, they intend to stay with me and continue to make my life utter hell by showering me with love and kisses and togetherness. I know that she intends to keep coming into my bed every night and holding me and not letting go. I am up to the struggle.

And I will continue to do whatever is necessary, generate different kinds of evidence, so that every future step of the continuing dance with USCIS goes smoothly and quickly. So far our luck has been good and I am sure with continued hard work, our luck will continue.

Life with a good FSU woman is so tough! Baron, keep any medical records for the child and be sure that you are listed as an "emergency contact" or "responsible party" (I presume that Leonid is covered by your insurance) and this is excellent evidence for the AOS and later lifting of conditions. He probably will not be in school before your lifting of conditions, but evenm if he is in something like daycare, make sure that BOTH of you are listed as emergency contacts and as "parents"

The fact that a woman will share the responsibility and trust a man with her child is hugely strong evidence for either.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I think this is really the most secure path to success--trust, openness, and faith that your partner is in it for the same things you are. The time to "trust but verify" and try to work out whether she's marrying you for love or something else is before you propose. If I had any doubts about my fiancee's intentions, I'd have either stopped it right there or held off until I was confident of her intentions one way or the other. She did the same thing for me. And I say that as another "old dude" who is also no longer burdened with many of the ideals about love and commitment that the younger, less experienced folk are. I was married for 20 years, with no clue that it was all going to end until about 19 years and 9 months, so if anyone should be jaded enough to encapsulate and protect themselves even after the nuptials, it should be me. Which is not to say that I don't sympathize with the "together but separate" approach, nor is it to say that the same thoughts didn't occur to me. But in the end I just had to understand that I either have 100% trust and faith in my partner or stay single. My new wife is not my starter wife, and if I were to change my ideas about how a marriage should work just because one woman proved to be untrustworthy, then I'd just be setting myself up for failure. I'm willing to concede that the other way isn't an automatic path to failure, but then I've known smokers who have lived into their 80s too.

I agree. My first wife of 20 years cleaned me out so thoroughly I could barely fill a pickup truck with what was left and it took years to build it back and I am still no where near what I was at one time. That said, I risk it all again because I trust someone that much and if I didn't I wouldn't get married. I fell confident it will be better this time. If not, oh well, I will start again. One thing I found out is "stuff is just stuff" and it can be replaced and collecting all that stuff was half the fun anyway.

[Martyshk 137]

I wonder if AOS and lifting conditions is harder if you don't have kids...

I mean it can't be that hard, considering they can't expect every married couple to have a child and such.

For AOS I can't see us having any tax returns together and all that, since there won't be enough time. What if she doesn't get a driver's license within that time frame too... I mean we get married and file AOS, that's 2 months at most.

We'll have a joint bank account by then, but that's going to be pretty much it, I think.

Blah, I'll worry about it when we get there But I'm just thinking out loud right now...