AOS Evidence

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Ok! I know this is an AOS related topic, but I want to post it here instead of the AOS forum because I do not have a specific question. Instead I want to vent, so here I go ...

... what if I do not want to put my wife's name on the lease or any bill, because I never want her to have to deal with it?

... what if we do not open a joint account either because her money is for her and my money is for my family (and I pay all the bills with it)?

... what if her car and car insurance are only on her name, because that way it is cheaper for us?

... what if she did not change her last name, because we want to avoid the hassle of having two different last names in her life?

Therefore, what if we live together, but we have no formal proof of that, because of the choices we made above?

However, she's my dependent on my employer's health insurance. She's my beneficiary on my life insurance. And her own documents have our common address as her address.

Will the government make a fit on our case because we refused to do what THEY consider common and customary for a bona-fide relationship? Why do we have to do what we don't want to do just to establish a facade before the government?

I refuse to change my lifestyle just to please the government. I love my wife and we have a beautiful relationship, but I will not give in to certain "tips for AOS" just because it will make our case stronger before the government. Will our decisions cause a reversal of fortune in our future dealings with the government (AOS, Removal of Conditions)?

What else could we do to not have problems, which does not include any of the above?

[mox 298]

... what if I do not want to put my wife's name on the lease or any bill, because I never want her to have to deal with it?

You can still have her name on your lease without her ever having to deal with it. Why is this such a big problem?

... what if we do not open a joint account either because her money is for her and my money is for my family (and I pay all the bills with it)?

Personal choice I guess.

... what if her car and car insurance are only on her name, because that way it is cheaper for us?

I've never heard of it being cheaper to insure a car by using two different policies, rather than a joint policy. Is this just an academic question, or is it truly cheaper for you to have 2 policies?

... what if she did not change her last name, because we want to avoid the hassle of having two different last names in her life?

It's common. I don't think this matters to USCIS one way or the other.

Therefore, what if we live together, but we have no formal proof of that, because of the choices we made above?

The examples you give are just some of the things you'll want to do to prove a bona fide marriage. You can also list her on your utility bills, your cable bill, as a beneficiary on your 401k, life insurance policy, home/auto loan, or anything else that would document the two of you actually living together as a normal married couple.

Will the government make a fit on our case because we refused to do what THEY consider common and customary for a bona-fide relationship? Why do we have to do what we don't want to do just to establish a facade before the government?

Put yourself in their shoes. They need proof that you're not just offering your services as a green card generator. If you don't like what they consider common and customary, what would you consider common and customary? Maybe you can put together a body of evidence that is satisfactory to you and the government. But they're not just going to take you at your word, which imho is a good thing.

You may not like the government "intruding" on your marital life, but the thing is: you signed up for this. You knew what was going to be expected, and by applying for AOS you agreed to the government's terms. Your wife is a foreign national who is petitioning the US government for a benefit. In exchange for that benefit, she (and by she I mean "you") is going to have to play ball.

[Nina~ 431]

Wedding pictures and pictures of the both of you with each other's family & friends helps a lot! In my case, the interviewing officer was more interested in our weddings pictures (with both our families in it) than any other document we had to present.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Wedding pictures and pictures of the both of you with each other's family & friends helps a lot! In my case, the interviewing officer was more interested in our weddings pictures (with both our families in it) than any other document we had to present.

I already sent wedding pictures with the petition ... and I guess that we will save all records of any trip we make together, like the one for our honeymoon.

And to Mox, I will not place her name on any bill just for show. I do not want her name plastered all over the Internet, like mine is. When your name is as unique as ours, having them all over the Internet is a nightmare.

Oh! By the way, I talked to my insurance agent and she advised against adding an inexperience driver to my insurance, unless I want my car insurance to double or triple.

[mox 298]

Well...it's really up to you. The government expects certain evidence. You need to either satisfy them that you have a bona fide relationship, or she goes back to Russia. It's pretty much all down to that. If she were a US citizen, then your indignation might be correctly placed. But she's a foreign national petitioning the US government for an immigration benefit. Sorry, but USCIS gets to call the shots on this. And rightly so.

But again...be creative. Figure out something that *will* work for both you and USCIS and do it. I find it pretty hard to believe that you and your wife have absolutely no joint documentation or potential joint documentation that wouldn't work for you.

I personally think your fears about her name being plastered all over the internet are unfounded. My wife is on just about every document I have, and Googling her name turns up nothing. (I just checked.)

Edited January 11, 2010 by mox

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Ok! I know this is an AOS related topic, but I want to post it here instead of the AOS forum because I do not have a specific question. Instead I want to vent, so here I go ...

... what if I do not want to put my wife's name on the lease or any bill, because I never want her to have to deal with it?

... what if we do not open a joint account either because her money is for her and my money is for my family (and I pay all the bills with it)?

... what if her car and car insurance are only on her name, because that way it is cheaper for us?

... what if she did not change her last name, because we want to avoid the hassle of having two different last names in her life?

Therefore, what if we live together, but we have no formal proof of that, because of the choices we made above?

However, she's my dependent on my employer's health insurance. She's my beneficiary on my life insurance. And her own documents have our common address as her address.

Will the government make a fit on our case because we refused to do what THEY consider common and customary for a bona-fide relationship? Why do we have to do what we don't want to do just to establish a facade before the government?

I refuse to change my lifestyle just to please the government. I love my wife and we have a beautiful relationship, but I will not give in to certain "tips for AOS" just because it will make our case stronger before the government. Will our decisions cause a reversal of fortune in our future dealings with the government (AOS, Removal of Conditions)?

What else could we do to not have problems, which does not include any of the above?

First of all, for the AOS the only REQUIRED documentation is a marriage certificate. That said, the only REASON they need to deny her is they do not think your relationship is legitimate. keep that in mind.

Now as to other items.

1. Lease probably won't matter. Alla was not on our mortgage at the time of our interview...no questions asked.

2. Why not open an account and put a little money in there? You can each still have your own accounts also. It is good evidence.

3. Car and car insurance are not important, but would be good evidence, I presume it is registered at the same address

4. Last name doesn't matter. Alla did not change her name and I am glad she did not, it avoids so much hassel.

You can refuse to do whatever you want, stand right up to them and tell them #### YOU!!!!!!!!! WE ARE MARRIED AND THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO DO! I suggest you do this immediately upon entering the room with the IO just so they know where they stand and it will keep the interview short and sweet. They can send you a letter saying your AOS is denied and demand she leave within 30 days. They did this for a friend of mine who was two days late in submitting a needed vaccination after their interview and he had to pay $585 to "re-open" the case. They HONEST TO GOD were going to begin deportation because she lacked ONE vaccine. It is YOUR obligation to prove you have a legitmate marriage not primarily for the immigration benefit. The burden of proof is on you. As it turns ou at our AOS interview they did not look at ANY evidence, though I brought a box full. They did not ask ANY questions, but that is rare and I have heard of people basically getting the 3rd degree.

You married a foriegn woman who needs to have government permission to stay here, until she becomes a citizen. It means you are going to HAVE TO jump through some government hoops and you do not have to like it. Both sides can play the "refusal" game, but if THEY play that game...she gets deported.

The listing of her on your health insurance is very good. Good luck

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I already sent wedding pictures with the petition ... and I guess that we will save all records of any trip we make together, like the one for our honeymoon.

And to Mox, I will not place her name on any bill just for show. I do not want her name plastered all over the Internet, like mine is. When your name is as unique as ours, having them all over the Internet is a nightmare.

Oh! By the way, I talked to my insurance agent and she advised against adding an inexperience driver to my insurance, unless I want my car insurance to double or triple.

If she isn't going to change her name (it is not important at all, really) then why would her name be associated with yours on the internet? I added Alla to our insurance and she was as inexperienced a driver as they come (see my posts in the "driving" threads, those are true!) and it added about $30 per month to our insurance WITH a new car for her. It did not double or triple the rates. I would talk to another insurance agent or company. And yes, I told them she was a new driver and had never been licensed before.

Review my pinned topic in the lifting of conditions forum with the director of the VSC. he is an acquaitance of ours and his wife is good friends with Alla, she is an adjudicator at VSC and Russian...came here on a K-1. He goes into the evidence required for lifting of conditions which is essentially the same. Photos of weddings are pretty much useless for USCIS and he mentions this. Not to say it is BAD, mind you, it is NOT bad, but you will see his comments. also read his comments in the pinned topic in the K-1 forum which regards evidence for K-1 visas. Photo evidence is fairly well ignored or considered incidental at best. Anyone pulling a fraud can dummy up some wedding photos, rent a tuxedo, buy a dress at Goodwill, and take some pictures. What they look for MOST is co-mingling of financial assets, OR evidence that you BOTH act as parents for children (making babies means nothing, except you had sex, being listed on their school papers, medical documents, etc. COUNTS big time) a person pulling a fraud is not likely to add someone to his bank account, mortgage, car title, health insurance, car insurance etc. A woman pulling a fraud is not going to list some strange guy as having authority to decide things for her children. Saying you want to save money is not a good excuse. Saying you do not want her name on the internet is not a good excuse USCIS does not care about that.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

You can refuse to do whatever you want, stand right up to them and tell them #### YOU!!!!!!!!! WE ARE MARRIED AND THAT IS ALL WE HAVE TO DO! I suggest you do this immediately upon entering the room with the IO just so they know where they stand and it will keep the interview short and sweet. They can send you a letter saying your AOS is denied and demand she leave within 30 days.

This is a great idea, but without using bad words. It is better to be polite and tell them that I pay their salary, so I do not have to put up with their bogus requirements. If they do not believe that our marriage is real, I am prepared to take it all the way to congress.

You married a foriegn woman who needs to have government permission to stay here, until she becomes a citizen. It means you are going to HAVE TO jump through some government hoops and you do not have to like it. Both sides can play the "refusal" game, but if THEY play that game...she gets deported.

The listing of her on your health insurance is very good. Good luck

No government hoops. All that is required is that we are married and intend to be together. I am a citizen and pay taxes, so I have the right to live with my wife wherever I want. If a government employee does not like my attitude, she should be ready to answer to her superiors

[mox 298]

Clueless, it doesn't really sound like you're looking for a solution to your problem. It sounds like you're looking for somebody to enable your indignation.

And you might be a citizen, but SHE IS NOT A CITIZEN. This is her AOS, not yours. She--a foreign national--is petitioning the US Government for an immigration benefit. You seem to be ignoring this point. What are her feelings? Is she willing to be drug through a long, expensive, and painful process that may or may not result in her expulsion from the US, just so you (who is NOT filing for AOS) can prove a point?

USCIS is tasked with ensuring that people who immigrate to this country are doing so legally. That means they need proof. She is not obligated to provide this proof, but the government is not obligated to allow her to remain in the country either. And all this talk about fighting it and taking it to congress would be great if it was all about you. But it's not. It's all about her, a foreign national who is petitioning the US government for an immigration benefit. She needs to play ball or go home. This isn't your ball to play with. You need to let her make this decision, not you.

And if you're still set on this course, my last bit of advice is this: hire the best goddam immigration lawyer that you can find. Because she's going to need it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

This is a great idea, but without using bad words. It is better to be polite and tell them that I pay their salary, so I do not have to put up with their bogus requirements. If they do not believe that our marriage is real, I am prepared to take it all the way to congress.

No government hoops. All that is required is that we are married and intend to be together. I am a citizen and pay taxes, so I have the right to live with my wife wherever I want. If a government employee does not like my attitude, she should be ready to answer to her superiors

Good luck. You can take it to the Supreme Court if you like (Congress has nothing to do with adjudication) but she WILL be deported while you do it.

[payxibka 10,045]

No government hoops. All that is required is that we are married and intend to be together. I am a citizen and pay taxes, so I have the right to live with my wife wherever I want. If a government employee does not like my attitude, she should be ready to answer to her superiors

Which amendment is that?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Clueless, it doesn't really sound like you're looking for a solution to your problem. It sounds like you're looking for somebody to enable your indignation.

And you might be a citizen, but SHE IS NOT A CITIZEN. This is her AOS, not yours. She--a foreign national--is petitioning the US Government for an immigration benefit. You seem to be ignoring this point. What are her feelings? Is she willing to be drug through a long, expensive, and painful process that may or may not result in her expulsion from the US, just so you (who is NOT filing for AOS) can prove a point?

USCIS is tasked with ensuring that people who immigrate to this country are doing so legally. That means they need proof. She is not obligated to provide this proof, but the government is not obligated to allow her to remain in the country either. And all this talk about fighting it and taking it to congress would be great if it was all about you. But it's not. It's all about her, a foreign national who is petitioning the US government for an immigration benefit. She needs to play ball or go home. This isn't your ball to play with. You need to let her make this decision, not you.

And if you're still set on this course, my last bit of advice is this: hire the best goddam immigration lawyer that you can find. Because she's going to need it.

Maybe you didn't understand me completely. Though the law does not REQUIRE anything other than you prove you are married (with documents) the law also requires that YOU prove the marriage is legitimate and not for immigration benefits (primarliy). The REQUIRED documentation was sent in with the I-485. Marriage certificate and I-864, plus birth certificate, yada, yada. You know the stuff. The photos were not required to be sent with the I-485, but OK you did, no harm done. This is like the "proof of relationship" part of the K-1. It is vague, nebulous and subjective.

Understand that if you follow the route you plan, there is every likelihood your wife will be deported and you will be in for many years of legal challenges and tens of thousands in legal bills. But you can do as you wish.

As Mox points out, YOU are a citizen but YOU are not requesting anything, YOU haven't requested anything since the petition and that got approved, obviously. YOU are done. Your WIFE is not a citizen and is not entitled to anything under the law because she married you. She is eligible to apply and that is all. We had no questions asked, but other people, maybe you, get the 3rd degree. The IO you speak to makes the decision, that guy or gal alone makes the decision. If they do not decide in your favor it gets real ugly real fast (and expensive). There is a30% or so chance you will get approved without an interview. But then you have another one in two years to lift conditions, so start collecting documents for that now.

You WILL play their game or they WILL swing you around their head by your b@lls! And your wife will hear all about it from you in Russia on your Skype calls.

[clueless_in_usa 8]

Review my pinned topic in the lifting of conditions forum with the director of the VSC. he is an acquaitance of ours and his wife is good friends with Alla, she is an adjudicator at VSC and Russian...came here on a K-1. He goes into the evidence required for lifting of conditions which is essentially the same. Photos of weddings are pretty much useless for USCIS and he mentions this. Not to say it is BAD, mind you, it is NOT bad, but you will see his comments. also read his comments in the pinned topic in the K-1 forum which regards evidence for K-1 visas. Photo evidence is fairly well ignored or considered incidental at best. Anyone pulling a fraud can dummy up some wedding photos, rent a tuxedo, buy a dress at Goodwill, and take some pictures. What they look for MOST is co-mingling of financial assets, OR evidence that you BOTH act as parents for children (making babies means nothing, except you had sex, being listed on their school papers, medical documents, etc. COUNTS big time) a person pulling a fraud is not likely to add someone to his bank account, mortgage, car title, health insurance, car insurance etc. A woman pulling a fraud is not going to list some strange guy as having authority to decide things for her children. Saying you want to save money is not a good excuse. Saying you do not want her name on the internet is not a good excuse USCIS does not care about that.

This seems idiotic, because if we were committing fraud, we would do exactly as they expect not to raise a red flag. However, have you ever had a "Finance 101" class? If you had, you would know that it is a very bad idea to put somebody else's name on your personal assets. (I am sure that I am going to hear the lame excuse regarding "trust.").

And no children are involved in my case, so there is nothing we can do on that front

She will be the beneficiary of everything if I die, but as long as I am alive, our finances will stay as they are, no matter what the government says.

[mox 298]

She will be the beneficiary of everything if I die, but as long as I am alive, our finances will stay as they are, no matter what the government says.

What will she be the beneficiary of? Sounds like a good start at some documents you can use as proof of relationship.

[1HappyGuy 45]

However, she's my dependent on my employer's health insurance. She's my beneficiary on my life insurance. And her own documents have our common address as her address.

What else could we do to not have problems, which does not include any of the above?

Clueless, you have the proof with the insurance for health and life. There are a lot of couples both born in this country that don't have joint checking accounts and keep a lot of stuff separate. Just show tax returns and the two kinds of insurance that you have listing her as covered or the beneficiary. That should be enough. You can give them the reasons why you don't have other joint stuff at the interview. You know, something like her money is hers.

Don't sweat it, you have got the stuff needed. My wife is still not on my home or mortgage, but I'll change that eventually and we've been married 4 years on January 18th.

Thanks for venting, we all need a place to let it out.