Would you send your child to school in this weather?

[Malrothien 6]

She posted that it was Florida awhile back.

[GabiandVi 34]

Then the true issue is NOT that the kids have coats, but that you have dropped YOUR expectations that they should put education as a priority and thus you want OTHERS to also drop that expectation... However, if we drop this expectation then we have given up on this group of kids... They should be EXPECTED to find a way to get to school whether it is 20 degrees or -20. If they do not have a coat, then it is reasonable that if they are still EXPECTED to be in school, that they will find the necessary clothing (layers of t-shirts, hoodies, sweatshirts can go a long way in protection from the cold) OR they would impose the expectation on their parents to put their education and ability to attendence in school as a priority.

I am a Floridan born and raised, not well off and my mother would not imagine keeping me from my education because it was "record" cold out. I would get an extra couple of shirts and a sweatshirt or sweater under my lightweight jacket and off I would go... I was EXPECTED to be in school.

I think the sad thing is that you are the educator and you seem to have lost the drive to Expect more from your kids and thus they have lost the drive to meet or exceed the expectations set of them... I dont think it is a cultural issue, but a society issue that we are so easy to give up on setting high expectations for kids reglardless of background, the cold weather and keeping them home for lack of owning a coat is just a manifestation of this apathy and double standards that, regarless of their intentions, keep underprivlidged children from reaching their potential.

But your expectations result in nothing. Still, I DON'T want you to drop them. I NEVER said I want you to drop your expectations. I said I'm glad you still have them.

With regard to educational expectations, my students will NOT be missing a day of school. We will go an extra day at the end of the year, meaning MY holiday will start a day later than planned. I have not dropped my expecations with regard to behavior in my classroom, effort, or performance. I am just choosing my battles, and in this case, I would put their physical welfare before one day of school. Fortunately, they are not put in that position. EVERY district within 50 miles of here has agreed that the weather is too severe to expect students to come to school and all school is cancelled for tomorrow. This includes all the private schools where the students have the best coats money can buy. I guess my concern was not unreasonable.

My father was the strictest parent around and we NEVER missed school. But I was impressed when I was a young child and my mother announced, before school was cancelled for the day, that we were not going to school that day. She was keeping us home because it was dangerous to be in a bus. My father, rushing to the hospital for a delivery, had skidded on the bridge and run into a ditch. He was okay, but my mother, and my father who put school before EVERYTHING, did not put our healths before school. Maybe I was so impressed by this it has skewed my judgement in this case.

Edited January 8, 2010 by GabiandVi

[GabiandVi 34]

I am curious in what State you are teaching - I am getting that it is not Florida yet people are talking about Florida.

I remember when I first moved to Georgia - and we are currently running 20 to 25 degrees below normal as well - our highs are where our lows normally are - I was surprised that I could find heavy winter coats on sale in the stores. One late September morning we had a day in the low 60s after days of high 70s to 90s. I was astonished when I went out that morning to see child after child bundled up in winter coats with fur hoods! That first winter I only wore a sweatshirt jacket all winter - nothing more was needed. This winter, however, I have broken out my winter coat that I brought with me from Canada. I see students - teenagers mainly - walking around with light jackets, wearing shorts and even t-shirts in spite of the frigid cold. I KNOW it isn't because they can't afford coats in this neighbourhood, nor that it is that warm coats are not available, because they are. For these kids, it is a 'choice' - it is not 'cool' to be bundled up and so they don't. Back in Canada it was the same. Teenagers went out in winter without hats and mittens and jackets unbuttoned because that was 'cool' (in more ways than one!).

If cost is a problem, there are plenty of warm second hand coats available at places like Good Will for around $5. I shop Good Will regularly and see them there.

And what is it with 'towels'? Towels give no warmth - it really sounds like some sort of affectation. There are throws and blankets available that would provide much more warmth. I suspect that there is a strong element of 'choice' in this situation rather than just not being prepared for cold weather.

Anyway, again, in what State do you teach?

Choice? YES!!!!!!!!!!!! But that's the reality I'm dealing with. There are second hand coats available, not just at Good Will, but through programs where the students don't even have to pay for them, but the culture that I'm talking about is strong, and many of them consider wearing second-hand clothing "trifflin." Now faced with an unusual and perhaps dangerous cold, should they be put in danger because they were stupid? They are children, after all. The towels, some of them now have Christmas throws, probably are an affectation, but I think it might have begun with a few who honestly couldn't afford coats. The towels are actually, while obnoxious, sufficient for the coldest weather we usually have, and that's my point. This is not usual weather, and they were caught unprepared.

I don't like to give too many details about myself in a public forum, but I think I might have hinted in other threads that I live in Louisiana.

[christeen 966]

QUOTE (GabiandVi @ Jan 7 2010, 10:45 PM)

You're right. I know nothing about you and you know nothing about me. I'm not passing judgement on you.

It's not about being poor. It's about culture, as I said before. My students live in a world with priorities that are, apparently, foreign to you. And they were foreign to me as well. I sometimes get disgusted by their priorities. I get frustrated and bitter about them. But then I realize that I'm not liking my students, so I drop my expectations. Then I forget that other people have not dropped their expectations. And like I said, it gives me hope to be reminded that the world I grew up in still exists. It gives me hope that I might find a world in which I can insulate my daughter from exposure to this sort of world. I know that sounds terrible, but it's how I feel. In the meantime, I have to work in the world of my students. I actually like them, surprise to me.

You misunderstand me.

But your expectations result in nothing. Still, I DON'T want you to drop them. I NEVER said I want you to drop your expectations. I said I'm glad you still have them.

With regard to educational expectations, my students will NOT be missing a day of school. We will go an extra day at the end of the year, meaning MY holiday will start a day later than planned. I have not dropped my expecations with regard to behavior in my classroom, effort, or performance. I am just choosing my battles, and in this case, I would put their physical welfare before one day of school. Fortunately, they are not put in that position. EVERY district within 50 miles of here has agreed that the weather is too severe to expect students to come to school and all school is cancelled for tomorrow. This includes all the private schools where the students have the best coats money can buy. I guess my concern was not unreasonable.

My father was the strictest parent around and we NEVER missed school. But I was impressed when I was a young child and my mother announced, before school was cancelled for the day, that we were not going to school that day. She was keeping us home because it was dangerous to be in a bus. My father, rushing to the hospital for a delivery, had skidded on the bridge and run into a ditch. He was okay, but my mother, and my father who put school before EVERYTHING, did not put our healths before school. Maybe I was so impressed by this it has skewed my judgement in this case.

I am sorry, but your previous posts (based on your words) indicate that you HAVE in fact gave up your expectations and now believe that others should as well. Perhaps the reason MY expectations result in nothing is because so many parents, officials and faculty believe all the excuses and have lowered their expectations from these students....

My point is that as an adult, you cannot call into work because it is too cold and you did not buy a coat... You are expected to be there... Why are we not expecting the same, not just expecting, but demanding this dedication from students regardelss of their cultural or social standard. Children all have the capacity to learn whether they live in a shack or a mansion but I think we fail kids by giving into every difficult situation and promote this culture of ingorance and not being responsible for their own futures by allowing excuses for every roadblock. I see "too cold, we dont have coats" as giving in to a society of excuses...

[GabiandVi 34]

She posted that it was Florida awhile back.

Where? I never said that. You assumed I was talking about Florida, so I told you I was not from Florida.

[AlHayatZween 2]

If it were my kid, i'd layer him up w/ everything in the closet and then either call in late to work & drive him to school...or try to carpool with one of his classmates.

[GabiandVi 34]

QUOTE (GabiandVi @ Jan 7 2010, 10:45 PM)

You're right. I know nothing about you and you know nothing about me. I'm not passing judgement on you.

It's not about being poor. It's about culture, as I said before. My students live in a world with priorities that are, apparently, foreign to you. And they were foreign to me as well. I sometimes get disgusted by their priorities. I get frustrated and bitter about them. But then I realize that I'm not liking my students, so I drop my expectations. Then I forget that other people have not dropped their expectations. And like I said, it gives me hope to be reminded that the world I grew up in still exists. It gives me hope that I might find a world in which I can insulate my daughter from exposure to this sort of world. I know that sounds terrible, but it's how I feel. In the meantime, I have to work in the world of my students. I actually like them, surprise to me.

You misunderstand me.

But your expectations result in nothing. Still, I DON'T want you to drop them. I NEVER said I want you to drop your expectations. I said I'm glad you still have them.

With regard to educational expectations, my students will NOT be missing a day of school. We will go an extra day at the end of the year, meaning MY holiday will start a day later than planned. I have not dropped my expecations with regard to behavior in my classroom, effort, or performance. I am just choosing my battles, and in this case, I would put their physical welfare before one day of school. Fortunately, they are not put in that position. EVERY district within 50 miles of here has agreed that the weather is too severe to expect students to come to school and all school is cancelled for tomorrow. This includes all the private schools where the students have the best coats money can buy. I guess my concern was not unreasonable.

My father was the strictest parent around and we NEVER missed school. But I was impressed when I was a young child and my mother announced, before school was cancelled for the day, that we were not going to school that day. She was keeping us home because it was dangerous to be in a bus. My father, rushing to the hospital for a delivery, had skidded on the bridge and run into a ditch. He was okay, but my mother, and my father who put school before EVERYTHING, did not put our healths before school. Maybe I was so impressed by this it has skewed my judgement in this case.

I am sorry, but your previous posts (based on your words) indicate that you HAVE in fact gave up your expectations and now believe that others should as well. Perhaps the reason MY expectations result in nothing is because so many parents, officials and faculty believe all the excuses and have lowered their expectations from these students....

My point is that as an adult, you cannot call into work because it is too cold and you did not buy a coat... You are expected to be there... Why are we not expecting the same, not just expecting, but demanding this dedication from students regardelss of their cultural or social standard. Children all have the capacity to learn whether they live in a shack or a mansion but I think we fail kids by giving into every difficult situation and promote this culture of ingorance and not being responsible for their own futures by allowing excuses for every roadblock. I see "too cold, we dont have coats" as giving in to a society of excuses...

They don't cancel school for blizzards? They don't cancel school for floods? They don't cancel school for hurricanes? They don't cancel school for heat waves in places where there is no AC?

[christeen 966]

Choice? YES!!!!!!!!!!!! But that's the reality I'm dealing with. There are second hand coats available, not just at Good Will, but through programs where the students don't even have to pay for them, but the culture that I'm talking about is strong, and many of them consider wearing second-hand clothing "trifflin." Now faced with an unusual and perhaps dangerous cold, should they be put in danger because they were stupid? They are children, after all. The towels, some of them now have Christmas throws, probably are an affectation, but I think it might have begun with a few who honestly couldn't afford coats. The towels are actually, while obnoxious, sufficient for the coldest weather we usually have, and that's my point. This is not usual weather, and they were caught unprepared.

I don't like to give too many details about myself in a public forum, but I think I might have hinted in other threads that I live in Louisiana.

By your acceptance that "this is the way it is and they cannot change" Then you have cut these kids short by not expecting more from them. If they were expected to be there no matter what, they would find a way, if they had to wear snuggies... because to do less would not be tolerated.

[GabiandVi 34]

If it were my kid, i'd layer him up w/ everything in the closet and then either call in late to work & drive him to school...or try to carpool with one of his classmates.

So would I, but the parents of my students either won't or can't.

[AlHayatZween 2]

So would I, but the parents of my students either won't or can't.

Yes, it is rough down here...

[christeen 966]

They don't cancel school for blizzards? They don't cancel school for floods? They don't cancel school for hurricanes? They don't cancel school for heat waves in places where there is no AC?

That is because the driving conditions in floods and blizzards makes the roads impassible and they cannot arrive, different story... You are talking about lack of coats to wait at a bus stop... The school is heated I assume??? I grew up in Florida (yes, I know we are not talking about Florida) however, it use it to make a point about heat... we went to school without A/C when I was young, we used fans... I dont believe that it should be cancelled for that either...

[w¡n9Nµ7 §£@¥€r 123]

Which part of Florida is Gabi from?

[christeen 966]

Some perspective.... It just drives me crazy when I think of children in some parts of the world who cross minefields, walk muddy, flooded streets, brave miles of travel in the scorching heat for the opportunity to go to school... And we are cancelling because the kids either dont have coats or the sence to put on more clothes??? I mean seriously. Education is something you have to put as priority in out kids, not excuses for how to avoid a day when it is challenging to get there...

[Malrothien 6]

Apparently she's not, even though it certainly seemed that way to me. *shrug*

[christeen 966]

Which part of Florida is Gabi from?

Shame on you!!!! You riler upper!!!