spanked kids may grow up to be happier & more successful

[Danno 1,228]

The study suggested that continuing physical punishment into adolescence did cause problems. What does this 'slap now and then' achieve, exactly? You think simply slapping a kid will prevent them from being lippy?

What is your specific method?

[Peikko 1,575]

One slap might not achieve anything. But several, over a period of time, due to repeat offences, surely will. I believe it's called negative reinforcement, or some such sociological concept.

As a stranger, all I do care about is my peace and quiet while I try to eat my dinner in an expensive restaurant. Not watch a bratty eight year old throw food all over the next table and floor while the parent tries to "reason" with them.

It's the parent's job to raise a happy and successful child, not mine and I don't judge someone else's parenting abilities and/or methodology.

The alternative to 'trying to reason' is not automatically a slap. There are other ways to achieve these goals than associating pain with an undesirable behaviour, these are ultimately much more useful even if you don't get the immidiate satisfaction of a shocked child who bursts into tears.

What you seem to want is for those parents who you encounter who are failing at any particular moment to 'slap their kids' to shut them up because it inconveniences you. Perhaps the better answer for you is to only frequence places where you will not encounter any children.

[Peikko 1,575]

What is your specific method?

Any undesirable behaviour is explained as to why and how it is undesirable and how the undesirable behaviour will have consequences to the person indulging in them (both in terms of reciprocal behaviours and punishments). Meting out a punishment that is suitable to the degree of undesirability of that behaviour but most importantly being consistent with what is and is not acceptable. It's not ok to allow a behaviour on one day and not the next, especially when they are very young and have difficulty with conceptualizing and making connections with cause and effect.

No, I didn't read behaviour books on bringing up kids Danno. Maybe I should but so far I have not.

[Danno 1,228]

Any undesirable behaviour is explained as to why and how it is undesirable and how the undesirable behaviour will have consequences to the person indulging in them (both in terms of reciprocal behaviours and punishments). Meting out a punishment that is suitable to the degree of undesirability of that behaviour but most importantly being consistent with what is and is not acceptable. It's not ok to allow a behaviour on one day and not the next, especially when they are very young and have difficulty with conceptualizing and making connections with cause and effect.

No, I didn't read behaviour books on bringing up kids Danno. Maybe I should but so far I have not.

I don't doubt that your method might have good results with some kids but let me ask you..... with no real way to "teach" the masses your concept, how effective would it be if it were the only allowed method across the country.... knowing the vast majority of parents are in no way as consistent as I suspect you are?

[sachinky 465]

I never said that they should slap their kids as an alternative to reasoning with them.

But given the child's behavior, it is safe to say, that IF he was sufficiently disciplined at home then there are good chances that that child would not be behaving in such an abominable manner in a public place. A simple stern look from the father or a "No, Timmy" from the mother should be enough to shut them up right then and there. Like I said, we're not talking about three year old babies, but eight or ten year old kids. The reason kids are so ill-mannered these days is because they think they can get away with anything. Unless the parent enforces the boundaries, in whatever manner they think is fit, the child will assume it is absolutely fine and dandy to carry on in that manner.

Just for the record, I actually don't think regular measure spankings are of any use. That tends to dilute the threat/importance of it, IMO. I remember being slapped, maybe two-three times in total, when I was young. Because they were such rare events, it really made me realize that what I had done was not cool at all. It wasn't going to fly -- the gravity of what I'd done struck me more because being slapped by my mother was such a rare thing. The fact that I had crossed a line was very clearly conveyed to me.

Technically, I was an angel when I was a kid, it was mostly my cousins who got into trouble and took me down with them.

Edited January 5, 2010 by sachinky

[Peikko 1,575]

I don't doubt that your method might have good results with some kids but let me ask you..... with no real way to "teach" the masses your concept, how effective would it be if it were the only allowed method across the country.... knowing the vast majority of parents are in no way as consistent as I suspect you are?

I don't think it's as difficult as you make out. The reality is Danno, that slapping does not teach child what is and isn't an acceptable behaviour, all it does is make them find ways of avoiding the slapping. Now, that could mean that the behaviour doesn't occur again, but more likely, the behaviour will occurr out of the prying eyes of adults. I believe that most parents do what I do, but use the 'slap' to somehow re-inforce the message which is why for most children the experience is neither positive nor negative. However, in a small proportion of households slapping is used as a form of abuse and these children suffer terrible harm at the hands of their abusers. However, my point still stands, why would one use pain to teach when not using it is effective?

I never said that they should slap their kids as an alternative to reasoning with them.

But given the child's behavior, it is safe to say, that IF he was sufficiently disciplined at home then there are good chances that that child would not be behaving in such an abominable manner in a public place. A simple stern look from the father or a "No, Timmy" from the mother should be enough to shut them up right then and there. Like I said, we're not talking about three year old babies, but eight or ten year old kids. The reason kids are so ill-mannered these days is because they think they can get away with anything. Unless the parent enforces the boundaries, in whatever manner they think is fit, the child will assume it is absolutely fine and dandy to carry on in that manner.

Just for the record, I actually don't think regular measure spankings are of any use. That tends to dilute the threat/importance of it, IMO. I remember being slapped, maybe two-three times in total, when I was young. Because they were such rare events, it really made me realize that what I had done was not cool at all. It wasn't going to fly -- the gravity of what I'd done struck me more because being slapped by my mother was such a rare thing. The fact that I had crossed a line was very clearly conveyed to me.

Technically, I was an angel when I was a kid, it was mostly my cousins who got into trouble and took me down with them.

Yes, there are ineffective parents. Giving them license to slap their children will not change the things that you see that annoy you. Ineffective parents annoy me too but my reaction isn't 'those kids could do with a good slapping' rather, that parent could use some parenting classes.

[Peikko 1,575]

It would be terribly funny if I wrote all this and my kid was a little devil behavioural wise, but he's actually really well behaved most of the time, and in fact my brother told me that while he was in England visiting my family, they took him to visit another family with a young boy, younger than my kid, about 6 where mine is 10 going on 11. Anyway, they were playing a game and the other kid kept on cheating to which my kid blithely announced that he would not continue to play with the child unless he played properly and that cheating was boring. That made me laugh.

[sachinky 465]

I guess, we're on the same page here. I honestly believe that all intending parents should be required to take mandatory classes/test before they are allowed to become parents. Most people, IMO are not FIT to be parents. If you can do it before driving a car, then you can do it before you are allowed to be responsible for another human being.

All I care about, at the end of the day, is discipline. It is up to the individual parent on how best to achieve that. I'm not going to tell someone that my way or one particular way is better to ensure that the child turns out to be a disciplined kid. Sometimes you have an easy-going, mostly docile kid on your hands, and reasoning works with them. I was one of those kids, a look from my parents or grandparents was enough to keep me in line. The times I got into trouble was mostly because of my cousins. They were little hell-raisers, I mean, you wouldn't believe it the kind of mischief they got up to. They thoroughly deserved the spankings they received.

Edited January 5, 2010 by sachinky

[Peikko 1,575]

As I said, for most kids spankings are neither a good nor a bad thing, in my opinion as they are not whipped within an inch of their lives, just given a short, sharp shock. I have taken the view personally, that I can discipline without spanking and I imagine that most adequate parents could too. The problem is with those parents who, for whatever reason are inadequate. For those, I just can't imagine how spanking, replacing 'reasoning' (read short term bribe allowing something one shouldn't in order to get them to tow one line, then later having to deny the thing you allowed because it's unacceptable and find another bribe and so on ad infinitum) as a solution.

I don't agree with making spanking illegal by the way, I just prefer to discuss alternative methods that work and promote them

[Nina~ 431]

I am extremely skeptical about corporal punishment too..

My sister and I were never spanked by our parents growing up. We were one of those crazy kids who run around screaming in restaurants that everyone loves to hate.. We did get our privileges taken away as a punishment when we got home, but were never physically disciplined. On the other hand, my aunt was a model parent. She spanked her 3 kids and they were well-behaved kids with a 4.0 gpa. My other family members would always comment that they were wonderful and brilliant kids.

Fast forward 20 years, my sister & I are happy, successful and well adjusted adults. My cousins on the other hand have a strained relationship with their parents. They barely finished college, have trouble holding down jobs, and have a ton of issues. I dont think my cousins are violent, but they do have a latent aggressiveness that my sister & I dont have.

IMO, spanking a child is a way of controlling them through humiliation. This humiliation makes a child feel helpless, and they try to battle that sense of "loss of control" by being aggressive & sometimes violent as adults.

[Danno 1,228]

I am extremely skeptical about corporal punishment too..

My sister and I were never spanked by our parents growing up. We were one of those crazy kids who run around screaming in restaurants that everyone loves to hate.. We did get our privileges taken away as a punishment when we got home, but were never physically disciplined. On the other hand, my aunt was a model parent. She spanked her 3 kids and they were well-behaved kids with a 4.0 gpa. My other family members would always comment that they were wonderful and brilliant kids.

Fast forward 20 years, my sister & I are happy, successful and well adjusted adults. My cousins on the other hand have a strained relationship with their parents. They barely finished college, have trouble holding down jobs, and have a ton of issues. I dont think my cousins are violent, but they do have a latent aggressiveness that my sister & I dont have.

IMO, spanking a child is a way of controlling them through humiliation. This humiliation makes a child feel helpless, and they try to battle that sense of "loss of control" by being aggressive & sometimes violent as adults.

It's definitely not "humiliation".....unless you got spanked in front of your peers or something like that.

I guess there are two kinds of spanking 1. is the "you pissed me off" spanking where you know you screwed up and will have to pay, this is the exact fear one would face getting caught by the police for something serious.

The other spanking is the "go to your room and think about what you did until I get there" spanking. In this case you feel you disappointed your parents and you ask yourself why did you do "x"?

I know some don't want to believe it but most spanking DOES make one take inventory of their behavior.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I still say spank your monkey.

[slim 1,525]

I find it amazing that a study has been posted and since nobody agrees with it - it's immediately thrown out.

You guys are going to have to face reality one of these days. I hope you never have to, but when you do, maybe you'll be able to offer it a reward to leave you alone or put it on time out or some other non-violent method of confrontation.

Oh, and don't forget to call someone who was spanked as a kid to come take care of it for you.

[sachinky 465]

Nina Ballerina -- I guess I'm curious as to why you pinpoint being spanked as a child as the sole/ most important factor in your cousins and you (and your sister) ending up in different places. Of all the things that can happen in twenty very long years, I think it's a bit too much (and a fair bit amusing) to determine spanking as a cause of this discrepancy in your family member's behavior. People take different trajectories and end up in different points -- most call that living life.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I guess I'm curious as to why you pinpoint being spanked as a child as the sole/ most important factor in your cousins and you (and your sister) ending up in different places. Of all the things that can happen in twenty very long years, I think it's a bit too much (and a fair bit amusing) to determine spanking as a cause of this discrepancy in your family member's behavior. People take different trajectories and end up in different points -- most call that living life.

That's a pretty good argument to debunk the very study quoted in the OP, isn't it?.