Danish police stop attack on cartoonist

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Part I of my response to post # 41:

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

Inherent in the constant demand that Muslims stand ready to condemn every mal act of other Muslims are several erroneous assumptions:

1. That terrorism is about Islam - it's not;

ready4ONE

"Think not of those, who are slain in the way of Allah, as dead."

(Quoted by Osama bin Laden in his 'letter to America' regarding the 11 September 2001 attacks.) 3:169-171 Quaran verse

"Sanction is given unto those who fight because they have been wronged."

Quoted by Osama bin Laden in his 'letter to America' as a justification for the 11 September 2001 attacks. 4:39 Quaran verse

Those fighting this Jihad clearly believe it is all about Islam, and there appear to be more than a few Imam's, religious leaders and teachers who agree.

You left out your source for the verses The Skeptic's Annotated Quran; not exactly a neutral nor scholarly resource. I have a Ph.D in Islamic law. Do you really expect to be able to use this hateful website against my considerable knowledge of the Quran and its historical context?

So, quoting a couple of verses out of a Holy text with more than 6,000 verses implies that Islam sanctions terrorism? It may imply that bin Laden interprets it that way, but his determinations are as self-serving as yours. Should I imply that because your view of Islam is as twisted as his, than all non-Muslims and their faiths are responsible for your views?

One in every five people on earth is Muslim. You quote one man and prefer to believe that the few Muslims who get the attention of the sensationalist press not only define the faith, but define all Muslims. While this is not true, it does fit your bias, making you more of a kindred spirit with terrorist Muslims than with the ones who would educate you more correctly.

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

2. That the acts of any Muslim are the burden of all - they aren't;

3. That our every day lives should revolve around ferreting out terrorists - sorry, we have real lives;

ready4ONE

If you become aware of a terrorist plot, you have a duty beyond your religion to report it and hopefully prevent tragedy, do you not????

A duty beyond my religion? Are you saying that I would have to betray my religion to do the right thing and prevent violence? Wow. We are called upon by God to obey the laws of the land in which we live, unless it conflicts with or prevents our obligation to worship God. My duty to my faith requires me to seek justice. Justice is the foremost theme of the Quran in regards to the obligations we have to our fellow human beings. Al Quran says " And that ye slay not the life which Allah hath made sacred, save in the course of justice. This He hath command you, in order that ye may discern." (6:151) Al Quran sends admonishions for the murder of innocents, that this is like killing all of mankind, but that the saving of one likfe is the same the same as saving all of mankind (Q 5:32). That is something you will not find on your Klan websites that perpetuate the hate, making you useless toward a solution to the violence.

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

4. That we know who the terrorists are coz we're tripping over them all the time - we're not;

ready4ONE

And yet when the FBI contacts a New York Imam, he immediately seeks to warn a man he barely knows [allegedly] that the authorities are wise to his bombing plot, potentially [but fortunately not] allowing him to escape capture and/or carry out his plans to kill innocent men, women and children with home made bombs.

Correct me if I am wrong, but does not one need to be deeply schooled in the Quaran and Islamic beliefs to become an Imam? And if so, how were the actions of this Imam peaceful?

You are wrong. While there are some imams who are also scholars, jurists or sheiks, most are not well-schooled, but chosen to do simple duties in the masjid, such as lead prayers and sermons, and do administrative work. They are the lawest ranked among the perceived hierarchy. I don't know the background or motivations of the imam you have cited, but his acts do not taint the rest of us, nonetheless, irregardless of your attempts to lump all Muslims in as co-conspirators.

More to follow . . .

[Sofiyya 1,687]

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

5. That anti-Muslim opportunists touted as experts on Islam and terrorists actually know what they are talking about - they don't;

ready4ONE

My assertion as that these terrorist acts themselves, and the failure of the 'peaceful' factions of the faith to condemn them is an issue for which I am seeking clarification, no more, no less. And further that these acts, not my opinion of them, lead to the impression that Islam is not a religion of peace.

I don't doubt that there are non-violent Muslim believers. I think there is significant public disagreement within the Muslim population as to whether or not Islam is a religion of peace.

I know for a fact that violent acts committed in the name of Allah have been denounced repeatedly by Muslims since before 9/11. That you don't is a testment to the time you spend on Islamophobic websites. Since you haven't a clue about Islam other than what you learn there and from the terrorists, you have a proclivity to the negative, and thus, more in common with them than you do with anyone peaceful. Your own leanings are not peaceful, so how can you believe you can seek peace from others?

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

6. That terrorists speak for all Muslims - they don't;

7. That non-Muslims have more to lose in this conflict than Muslims do - they don't;

8. That all Muslims owe you a coherent and detailed explanation of why some Muslims see violence as sanctioned by God because we must know why - we don't;

ready4ONE

Perhaps some Muslims believe:

Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 38:14 Quaran verse, but I am seeking a similar verse regarding tolerance, can you quote me one?

First of all, 38:14 is about one's fate at the end of days, not about terrorism by people, so I'm confused about why you included it, or used it as a prefix to verses about tolerance, since I'm sure you are not insinuating that 38:14 is about tolerance.

Tolerance is a spiteful word. Tolerance requires no good will, but a grudging acceptance of something you would rather do without. Al-Quran speaks of our goal as peaceful co-existance, on earth and in heaven, for Allah expects us to learn from each other.

"O Mankind, We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know each other and not despise each other. Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is he who is the most righteous of you" (Q 49:13).

"If thy Lord had so willed, He could have made mankind one people: but they will not cease to dispute." (Q 11"118)

"Those who believe, and the Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, who believe in God and the Last Day and do good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." (Q 2:62)

"Those who believe, and the Jews, and the Sabians, and the Christians, who believe in God and the Last Day and do good, there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve." (Q 5:69)

"Those who believe, those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things." (Q 22:17)

From our Nabi's final sermon:

“All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action.”

I could go on and on, citing historical events as well as more verses and ahadith, but time and space are limited.

More to follow . . .

[Sofiyya 1,687]

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

9. That our loyalty is to Osama bin Laden until proven otherwise - not true;

ready4ONE

Didn't ever claim that it was true, not at all my point with regards to speaking out against terrorist acts.

You have certainly done so. By demanding specific condemnations from me for the acts of others, as a Muslim, you single me and other Muslims out as traitors to the west unless we satisfy your need to know that we claim not to be. I won't give you that kind of power over me.

(Sofiyya @ Jan 3 2010, 01:56 AM)

10. That we owe you anything just because we're Muslim and you're not - we don't.

As far as I'm concerned, ignorant hatred by non-Muslims toward Muslims and Islam is the other side of the same coin as ignorant hatred by Muslims toward non-Muslims. That's not a currency I want to exchange, but some of you do, and expect to guilt me into comforting your prejudices. No thanks, as long as you believe you have authority to demand I answer to you, you see your humanity as superior to mine, and require me to address you from that vantage point. That is a losing proposition.

ready4ONE

Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 66:9 Quaran verse

But hey!

Those who disbelieve will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. 98:6 Quaran verse

Right?

Show me a Holy text in the Abrahamic tradition that doesn't claim that disbelievers are lost. Islam is an Abrahamic faith, which adheres to the traditions of the holy men from the Torah and the Bible: “He has laid down for you the religion which He enjoined upon Noah, and which We revealed to you, and which We enjoined upon Abraham, Moses and Jesus: Establish the religion, and be not divided therein.” (Q 42:13)

There are those who will be close to God and those who will reject Him. However, as I quoted before, the Quran is the only sacred text that specifically says that there will be Christians and Jews chosen by God to enjoy the blesssings of Jannah in the afterlife. There will also be those among Muslims who will not be blessed, but condemned for their acts and lack of fatih. Tell me how your faith is so ecumenical toward other faiths that your interpretation of God allows for non-adherents to share heaven with you.

So, condemning God's judgement is the same as condemning God's authority. He is the final arbitor of our fate, not we mere mortals. Nor, any terrorists.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

PS - The term "moderate Muslim" is a redundancy, like "free gift" or "future plans". Islam requires Muslims to be moderate, and, thus, that is the norm.

[sandinista! 1,816]

i have yet to hear a report of one of singapore's over 750, 000 muslims condemning this act by a deranged somali in denmark. ergo, singapore's 750,000 muslims must therefore be implicitly approving it. yep, that makes sense.

Edited January 3, 2010 by sandinista!

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I guess your new year's resolution was to continue to trap off ignorant judgemental #######.

Judgmental against a guy with a axe and a knife wanting attack a guy that drew a cartoon. Maybe he wanted a hug??!?

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Oh so now you're talking about one guy are you?

Got it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what God hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If God had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to God; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute; (Q5:48)

[Danno 1,228]

Oh so now you're talking about one guy are you?

Got it.

And you thought he was talking about muslims in Iowa?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

A common occurrence here on VJ (and the world)

1. A radical Muslim does something bad

2. People criticize said savage

3. moderate Muslims (and dhimmis) take offense and blame criticizers for attacking all Muslims

4. rinse

5. repeat

Got it.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

A common occurrence here on VJ (and the world)

1. A radical Muslim does something bad

2. People criticize said savage

3. moderate Muslims (and dhimmis) take offense and blame criticizers for attacking all Muslims

4. rinse

5. repeat

Got it.

The same monologue occurs repeatedly because the criticism is never limited to the perpetrator, but his/her vile acts are extended to a faith and all its adherents. Then, those who are guilty of this try to accuse those who point it out to them of attacks, proving that willful ignorance, denial, and a lack of reading comprehension are also common occurences on VJ.

Edited January 4, 2010 by Sofiyya

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

The same monologue occurs repeatedly because the criticism is never limited to the perpetrator, but his/her vile acts are extended to a faith and all its adherents. Then, those who are guilty of this try to accuse those who point it out to them of attacks, proving that willful ignorance, denial, and a lack of reading comprehension are also common occurences on VJ.

Really? Where and when?

The vast majority of Muslims are just like everyone else. They get up in the morning, eat, go to work, raise a family etc.

Here's he FBI's most wanted terrorist list. Do you see something in common? Why do you choose to ignore reality?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

Edited January 4, 2010 by John Galt

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

You don't get it Mr Galt. If you did, you'd have remembered that you weren't talking solely about the one guy.

Add it to your persistently repetitive historical commentary about muslims and your mantra about how "all muslims are not terrorists" "but but but but but... where's the outrage" (Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink).

Rinse, repeat.

I got it. You don't. Or you really are *that* stupid.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

You don't get it Mr Galt. If you did, you'd have remembered that you weren't talking solely about the one guy.

Add it to your persistently repetitive historical commentary about muslims and your mantra about how "all muslims are not terrorists" "but but but but but... where's the outrage" (Nudge Nudge, Wink Wink).

Rinse, repeat.

I got it. You don't. Or you really are *that* stupid.

Yeah. The one guy who tried to attack the Dane. He had an axe and knife. All terrorists are savages. Get it you dolt?

Can you comprehend the simplest concepts or are you that much of a ###### idiot?

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Really? Where and when?

The vast majority of Muslims are just like everyone else. They get up in the morning, eat, go to work, raise a family etc.

Here's he FBI's most wanted terrorist list. Do you see something in common? Why do you choose to ignore reality?

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/fugitives.htm

What reality am I ignoring? Do you actually read these threads?