Possible DCF, not being a PR of Canada- but given permission to stay 6 months+?

[Cindo and Joe 0]

Others were denied for saying they still had domicile in the US - when they really didn't. I am a Canadian PR, US citizen. I am moving back home next month because of all of the domicile denials in the past three months.

Sorry, but you can't have the best of both worlds. You need to decide - are you staying in Canada or are you bringing your spouse to the US? You can't have both.

Also, so what if it "happens every day". You don't know the applicants situations, etc., so they aren't relevant to what is being discussed here.

Actually I do know applicants situations as I have had 2 family members do just that- with no problems- and it is very relevant because it is countering our process. There is a reason for our process and I'd like to see it as a better oppurtunity, no?

We have made our decision- to bring my spouse to the U.S., and I wish to have Canadian P.R. Show me exactly where it says that is illegal to do so?

[Malrothien 6]

I never said it was illegal to do so - do not put words in my mouth. What I did say is that you are playing with fire because by persuing the Canadian PR, you invalidate yourself from the I864 requirements for domicile.

Realize that the Canadian PR application takes 12+ months to receive your PR card. If you get your PR card before the interview in Montreal, great. Move back to the US, get your job back, and you're good to go. I do not suggest you stay in Canada, go the interview with a newly acquired PR card, and expect to be granted the visa.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Malrothien

[Cindo and Joe 0]

What Huggle's says is true. One of the ladies denied just got her PR card 6 months ago. I've had mine for 2 years and I'm still going home 3.5k miles away from my husband. Sorry, but I'm not willing to play the "what if" game. Maybe you are.

That's my frustration- why is there a "what if" game in the first place? There is no information anywhere that states what I intend to do is illegal.

Also to hear reports of someone who even owns a home in the U.S. is getting denied domicile? Are they kidding?

I never said it was illegal to do so - do not put words in my mouth. What I did say is that you are playing with fire because by persuing the Canadian PR, you invalidate yourself from the I864 requirements for domicile.

Realize that the Canadian PR application takes 12+ months to receive your PR card. If you get your PR card before the interview in Montreal, great. Move back to the US, get your job back, and you're good to go. I do not suggest you stay in Canada, go the interview with a newly acquired PR card, and expect to be granted the visa.

Where on the I864 forms does it say that pursuing P.R. in another country will invalidate myself? That's what I'm getting at...

Canadian PR application will take 12+ for inland applications- not Outland. (We are applying outland which will be at least 2 times faster).

[Malrothien 6]

You never specified what application you are doing. *shrug*

Also, again, don't put words in my mouth. Neither I, nor Huggles, have said what you are doing is illegal. So just quit with that.

Anyway, when dealing with Montreal and the current economy, they are following the guidelines without any leeway. You are invalidating yourself from the I864 because you've ended your domicile in the US and have no real proof that you have intentions to reestablish - just by alone filing for the Canadian PR - REGARDLESS that you can keep your PR while out of the country when living with a Canadian spouse.

Who cares if you own a home? I can go own a home in Timbuktu without having a domicile there. That is not proof. Proof is a job. Proof is actively buying a house. Proof is having a newly signed lease.

[Cindo and Joe 0]

Just because people get away with it everyday does not mean it is excusable or right. My source of frustration with your post is that is seems you are suggesting you wish you would have done things illegally.

Other VJ members who have been denied believed they met all the I-864 requirements as well and were still denied. Many of them had very strong ties to the US, including jobs very similar to the one you have described. Your application for Canadian PR really stands as a red flag, which is what I was trying to point out. Being a Canadian PR already and perusing an application seems different. If you have been living in Canada as a PR with your spouse for months or years then that is one thing, but if you are showing intent to pursue residency in Canada while trying to establish your intent to move to the US I see that as being a problem and an uphill battle. If you believe you meet the requirements and want to peruse two immigration applications between two countries at once then that is up to you. I don't wish you ill and I apologize for sounding harsh. Good luck.

Thanks for everything, and I don't mean to sound hostile either- it's frustrating as everyone knows. It's not that I want to do thiings illegally- it's more of a "well what's the point of all this, when there is an obviously loophole in the system that is legal enough to work for millions". Filing AOS has such a large grey area- people get married with "intent" to immigrate v.s. people that intend to immigrate because they are married... where do you draw the line?

The laws are so vague and random at times it seems there is too much power put in the decision of a single immigration officer.

[Hugglebuggles 60]

Here's the problem- nobody said what you are doing is illegal, there is no need to get defensive and angry. I understand its a frustrating matter, nobody is going to blame you for feeling that way.

This site is for people to help each other, which include giving people advice they don't want to hear. Hang around this forum for a while and read the reviews coming in from DCF Montreal filers who have been denied a visa based on their lack of domicile. In most cases the petitioner has been forced by circumstance to move back to the US to adequately prove their intentions. Most of these people have been living in Canada for a much longer period of time than yourself and have continued to maintain ties to the US for months, years and even decades and have still been denied. These are people who have owned property and had business and jobs waiting for them back home. Unfortunately its not a joke. What is written on the I-864 form as a guide and what Montreal wants you to prove are two different things, unfortunately. There is no document that can explain exactly what they are looking for, and we are here to tell you they are looking for much more than what USCIS instructions indicate. There is a lot of "what ifs" and speculation involved, that's just the way it is.

Edited December 27, 2009 by Hugglebuggles

[Cindo and Joe 0]

Here's the problem- nobody said what you are doing is illegal, there is no need to get defensive and angry. I understand its a frustrating matter, nobody is going to blame you for feeling that way.

This site is for people to help each other, which include giving people advice they don't want to hear. Hang around this forum for a while and read the reviews coming in from DCF Montreal filers who have been denied a visa based on their lack of domicile. In most cases the petitioner has been forced by circumstance to move back to the US to adequately prove their intentions. Most of these people have been living in Canada for a much longer period of time than yourself and have continued to maintain ties to the US for months, years and even decades and have still been denied. These are people who have owned property and had business and jobs waiting for them back home. Unfortunately its not a joke. What is written on the I-864 form as a guide and what Montreal wants you to prove are two different things, unfortunately. There is no document that can explain exactly what they are looking for, and we are here to tell you they are looking for much more than what USCIS instructions indicate. There is a lot of "what ifs" and speculation involved, that's just the way it is.

No anger, I think it's a healthy debate to dig deeper into these complicated issues in hopes to provide positive outcomes for not only me but others as well. Well, I do admit I was pretty angered to hear that others who have obvious proof of domicile (such as owning a home) have been denied...crazy!

[Cindo and Joe 0]

You never specified what application you are doing. *shrug*

Proof is a job. Proof is actively buying a house. Proof is having a newly signed lease.

I stated I was applying CR-1. Proof- I've stated I currently still have a paying U.S. job. Car registration. Taxes. As well as a lease that can be proved for I864. I've done a lot of work to maintain domicile- so to hear that I don't have it, that's where I'm confused.

[Cindo and Joe 0]

You are invalidating yourself from the I864 because you've ended your domicile in the US and have no real proof that you have intentions to reestablish - just by alone filing for the Canadian PR - REGARDLESS that you can keep your PR while out of the country when living with a Canadian spouse.

Also, I don't get how applying for Canadian PR invalidates domicile... I have not seen that written in the I864. My domicile requirements are met.

We wish to purchase together a vacation home in Canada, and I would like to get the Canadian citizenship process started early.

[Malrothien 6]

You cannot file for Canadian citizenship unless you live in Canada for 1095 days. Living with a spouse in a foreign country does not satisfy those requirements.

[Cindo and Joe 0]

You cannot file for Canadian citizenship unless you live in Canada for 1095 days. Living with a spouse in a foreign country does not satisfy those requirements.

My mistake, Permanent Residency- as I don't need to be a citizen to purchase property.

[trailmix 77]

I stated I was applying CR-1. Proof- I've stated I currently still have a paying U.S. job. Car registration. Taxes. As well as a lease that can be proved for I864. I've done a lot of work to maintain domicile- so to hear that I don't have it, that's where I'm confused.

Is the fact that the CO can interpret your proof any way he wants giving too much power to one person without enough guidelines - absolutely. It is also the way it is.

I think maybe what I posted wasn't clear enough, because of what you have stated above. None of the items you stated above are going to prove that you are domiciled in the U.S. - for that purpose they are worthless (I hope that is clearer )

I'm truly not meaning to sound harsh - it may seem like that in print, I just don't want you making this mistake, in assuming you can prove domicile - when I really don't think you can. If I don't think you have domicile, how will you ever prove it to a CO? (not to say I know any more or less on the subject than anyone else in the world)

It's back to the three choices:

1. You are physically domiciled in the U.S. (scratch this one - you are not)

2. You only left the U.S. temporarily, maintaining strong ties to the U.S. (this one is a gray area at best)

3. You intend to reestablish domicile no later than the intending immigrant (this is probably your best bet).

So if you choose 3 - you need to start looking at this differently, forget all the stuff you already have, that's historical stuff and does not prove you are moving. Prove to them you are moving.

Do the things people would do if they were moving to a new country and had to prove it.

- Get a moving quote

- Get that letter from your employer - if you can, have them state in the letter that they understand that you are returning to the U.S. to live with your spouse and they will be hiring you full time inhouse when you move back.

- Get a lease

- Do you have utilites in your name? If not, can you sign up for them in your name?

That kind of thing

BTW, I wouldn't do any of that just yet, I would wait until closer to the interview as everything will be dated by then.

Is it illegal to apply for Canadian PR and U.S. PR, no it's not. Will the CO see it as working in your favour, absolutely not - so you have to convince him - if you decide to go ahead with doing it this way.

Edited December 27, 2009 by trailmix

[Cindo and Joe 0]

Is the fact that the CO can interpret your proof any way he wants giving too much power to one person without enough guidelines - absolutely. It is also the way it is.

I think maybe what I posted wasn't clear enough, because of what you have stated above. None of the items you stated above are going to prove that you are domiciled in the U.S. - for that purpose they are worthless (I hope that is clearer )

I'm truly not meaning to sound harsh - it may seem like that in print, I just don't want you making this mistake, in assuming you can prove domicile - when I really don't think you can. If I don't think you have domicile, how will you ever prove it to a CO? (not to say I know any more or less on the subject than anyone else in the world)

It's back to the three choices:

1. You are physically domiciled in the U.S. (scratch this one - you are not)

2. You only left the U.S. temporarily, maintaining strong ties to the U.S. (this one is a gray area at best)

3. You intend to reestablish domicile no later than the intending immigrant (this is probably your best bet).

So if you choose 3 - you need to start looking at this differently, forget all the stuff you already have, that's historical stuff and does not prove you are moving. Prove to them you are moving.

Do the things people would do if they were moving to a new country and had to prove it.

- Get a moving quote

- Get that letter from your employer - if you can, have them state in the letter that they understand that you are returning to the U.S. to live with your spouse and they will be hiring you full time inhouse when you move back.

- Get a lease

- Do you have utilites in your name? If not, can you sign up for them in your name?

That kind of thing

BTW, I wouldn't do any of that just yet, I would wait until closer to the interview as everything will be dated by then.

Is it illegal to apply for Canadian PR and U.S. PR, no it's not. Will the CO see it as working in your favour, absolutely not - so you have to convince him - if you decide to go ahead with doing it this way.

Perfect. I will be able to establish all of those things for proving domicile when it comes time- and if if the issue comes up of my obtaining Canadian P.R., I will be able to explain thoroughly my reasons why (fingers crossed!).

Thanks again, makes much more sense now.

[sachinky 465]

The problem is that a lot of this is arbitrary. If you choose to take a risk, well, then it's your choice.

Logically, do you understand why it's kind of silly to apply for a Canadian PR when you're also trying to prove that you are intending to establish/already established domicile in the U.S. You can't have both even though it's NOT illegal. It's one thing if you already had it way before or plan to get it sometime in the future. But doing both of them simultaneously goes against logic.

And for the last time owning a house/property DOES NOT equal to domicile.

Good luck on your visajourney!

[antda 13]

Hmm...I think it boils down to...

"Do you and your wife want to permanently live in Canada or permanently in the USA?"

To immigration's eyes: You both physically can't live in both places at the exact same time. So pick one or the other first....

Canada or USA.....Make up your mind....

Personally, I think you should go for Canadian PR first (since you have the paperwork for that anyways and are already living in Canada), wait until that is complete, and then see what happens next while living in Canada as a Permanent Resident.

Besides, the Canadian immigration process is overall easier than the US one...So why not go for that first instead too?

Then if you want to pursue US Permanent Residency for your wife, go for that next, after your Canadian PR is complete and you have your Canadian PR card. Wait awhile. Then you move back to the USA to "establish domicile" and apply for your wife's US Permanent residency via the CR-1 or K3 route while your wife is still in Canada. It may involve some time apart, but it will be quick to pass, before you know it. Plus you have Canadian PR too, so that would be easier if you have to travel to see each other while the application is pending....

No conflicts there, if it is "one after the other" and not at the same time.....

I think other vjer's have done this before too..Maybe they can give more insight into that as well...

In the end, even though it might take many months and years and cost a lot for both processes to be completed, it will be worth it to have both Canadian PR and US Permanent Residency (and maybe even Dual Citizenship too) for both of you....

Definitely easier on the travelling and living between the USA and Canada, indeed!

Hope this helps....Good luck on your journeys too, Cindo and Joe...

Ant

Edited December 30, 2009 by Ant+D+BabyA