I need gimygirl's aggression

[KarenCee 3]

No one said anything about anyone having "power" as you've so eloquently written here. However, I do think that manhandling a child is just a bit too much. As small as some children are, it is so easy to bruise or hurt them. I have been teaching for 12 years now. I've seen a lot. I've worked with small children for most of that 12 years...10 of those years to be precise. I'm not saying I am a professional when it comes to making a decision on what is and is not termed abuse. I am saying that I've seen small children bruised, finger marks on their arms, slap marks on tiny legs, and it tore at my heart. I am required by law, however, to report such things to the administration and they report it to Child Services. I can only hope something was done to prevent it from happening again.

I feel this is part of the problem rather than a solution. My mother, and both sets of grandparents disciplined all of us children (aunts, uncles around my age), with nice good swats to the backsides, or legs. I had plenty of welps left over from a nice fresh branch cut off the tree closest to the house. Were they abusive? Hell no, we needed it and there is not one incident I can look back on and claim any of these people were child abusers!

My generation grows up to have children, and are to afraid to discipline our children in a manner that would get the point across, because if you smack your child on the butt and leave a red mark Mrs Smith is going to report you as an abusive parent! Mind you though Mrs Smith is probably the same old hag that used to throw a chalk board eraser at my head when I was in school, or take a huge wooden paddle and burn your butt up. I can count on my ten fingers how many times my three boys have been physically punished, because frankly I am to afraid to do it. I can however tell you it gets the point across, much better than "johnny you can't do this because bla bla bla". Now having a 17 year old down to a 12 year old, I wish I could turn back time and not be their buddy but a parent who had disciplined them in a manner that they would not have forgotten.

Next time you run into some smart alec 16 year old on your shopping outting, ask him/her if they were spanked as a child. Likely not, mommy probably learned parenting from a book.

now that i've worked my way thru all of the responses, i don't know why the mother was so insistent that the child not fall asleep. i do think she could have been much more gentle.

had i seen such i'd have told her such, as who knows what goes on when no one is around eh?

Maybe what goes on is the kid screams all through the night keeping mom up, then wants to take a siesta in the middle of the day.

This is where we have to agree to disagree. This debate was on here not too long ago...to hit or not to hit your child. There are so many other ways of effective discipline. BUT...this is my opinion and I'm certainly not trying to force my way of thinking on anyone! However, if a child comes into my classroom and I suspect there is some form of abuse (and YES, I CAN tell the difference) then I DO have the responsibility of turning it in to the administration. Maybe you should spend some time around children in a school setting...and I mean more than just a day or so...and you might see some of what I've seen throughout the last 12 years.

As for smart mouthed children...they learn it from their peers. In my opinion, smacking a kid because of his or her smart mouth will only make the situation worse. As I said...JMHO. This mommy didn't learn parenting from a book...I've learned by trial and error. I have read parenting books and have heartily disagreed with quite a lot of them. I don't believe in letting my daughter decide what is ok behaviour, however I've found that hitting her doesn't achieve anything but more anger. I recieved a good many spankings as a child too...some of them drew blood. It instilled fear in me...fear of how far my dad would go the next time he felt the urge to "discipline" me. Personally, I want my child to feel love from me...not fear me.

Ah well...this is going to be a long debate...and no one will be right or wrong. I am content in my choice of discipline. You are content with yours. Let's leave it at that, shall we? *sigh*

[Sister Fracas 5]

I recieved a good many spankings as a child too...some of them drew blood. It instilled fear in me...fear of how far my dad would go the next time he felt the urge to "discipline" me. Personally, I want my child to feel love from me...not fear me.

Ah well...this is going to be a long debate...and no one will be right or wrong. I am content in my choice of discipline. You are content with yours. Let's leave it at that, shall we? *sigh*

Karen, I think this is precisely why my mum chose not to be a spanker...because she had been as a kid by her father and she was afraid of him. I'm glad my mum chose the way she did. Feeling her disappointment in me when I did something wrong I surely believe made a bigger impact on me than if she had just swatted me....but people will always believe their way is the best when it comes to discipline.

One last thing though was a comment I wanted to respond to and forgot...

Maybe what goes on is the kid screams all through the night keeping mom up, then wants to take a siesta in the middle of the day.

Is this the child's fault? If the child is up all night, the parent needs to find out why and fix it instead of blaming the child. I don't like the idea of putting blame on children.

[incanada1234 0]

Maybe what goes on is the kid screams all through the night keeping mom up, then wants to take a siesta in the middle of the day.

Is this the child's fault? If the child is up all night, the parent needs to find out why and fix it instead of blaming the child. I don't like the idea of putting blame on children.

(I love you lately, Francis. What the HAY is going on here at VJ??? )

[I'm Gone 60]

(I love you lately, Francis. What the HAY is going on here at VJ??? )

So I guess we have found out that you are conservative on the outside, but liberal on inside.

[incanada1234 0]

(I love you lately, Francis. What the HAY is going on here at VJ??? )

So I guess we have found out that you are conservative on the outside, but liberal on inside.

Don't insult me.

[Sister Fracas 5]

(I love you lately, Francis. What the HAY is going on here at VJ??? )

Give it another week...things'll be back to normal...LOL

So I guess we have found out that you are conservative on the outside, but liberal on inside.

bwahahahahaa

[incanada1234 0]

(I love you lately, Francis. What the HAY is going on here at VJ??? )

Give it another week...things'll be back to normal...LOL

On all that is good and pure - THANK GOODNESS!!!!

[CarolineM 0]

AND AS A TEACHER IN THE PUBLIC SCHOOL I THINK WE ARE A LITTLE LOW ON DISCIPLINE.

Haven't read this whole thread, prob won't but I want to add this...Parents are EXTREMELY low on discipline because of stuff like this. I'm not saying what this parent was doing was right...but hoenstly parents are so afraid of abuse and someone saying they are abusing their child that they won't discipline them AT ALL. I had a small chil...5 years old..tiny...who's 300 pound mother was too afraid of him to do anything. The ONE time she spanked him a neighbor turned her in to the state and she was investigated...nothing was found but that is a traumatizing process. To have someone tell you YOU don't know how to parent a child....as a result her child was OUT OF CONTROL....he stabbed another child with a pencil, threw a chair, and was eventually baker acted (forcibly hospitalized..)

honestly, I had the ####### beat out of me as a child and I'm glad. I don't consider it abuse...i mean Iddin't get burned by cigarettes or anything - butI was disciplined....and disciplined properly and I turend out fine. I think we are so quick to scream child abuse that parents are losing the ability to discipline and children are going wild...I work in a public school as well and I see it EVERY day!!!

[gimygirl 0]

well marissa ... i'm sorry that you had to witness something like that yesterday. of course, i know exactly how you feel as well.

i beg to differ on here with the people that would rather mind their own business ... i'm sorry, but i think that is a bit cowardice. nowhere does it say that you have to be loud, rude, obnoxious, disrespectful, etc when saying something to another parent.

it's normal for people to NOT want to be told something about the way they are acting, but i believe in accountability ... LOTS of people have no problem calling me out on the carpet when they feel i've crossed the line here at VJ ... why is real life any different?

what makes me sad in these cases with children ... is that if a mother/father does this in public, i only cringe to think what they do to their children when they're alone. there is also a chance that someone will physically lash out at you, that's a never far from my mind, but i know there are avenues to take when adults come to blows.

i would have said something had i been on that bus, but that's not a newsflash here. it could have been something as simple as "what a tired little girl", "she can share a seat with me for the trip", (to the mother)"looks like you've had a long day", etc ...

there is a fine line between abuse and physical discipline but i can assure you with 100% certainty that you don't need to hit your children for them to become great members of society as they age. whether it's a slap across the back of the head, a few spanks on the bottom or a good ole fashion whoopin' ... it's not needed and only breeds contempt, fear and mistrust ... although many mistake that for obedience and respect.

[Sister Fracas 5]

honestly, I had the ####### beat out of me as a child and I'm glad.

that's very sad to me...

[Veiled Princess 1]

"You're despicable"

She's despicable for speaking harshly to her child (when she's obviously injured) but it's OK for innocent Iraqi/Palestinian/Lebanese/etc children to die/be dismembered as casualties of war...

[Sister Fracas 5]

there is a fine line between abuse and physical discipline but i can assure you with 100% certainty that you don't need to hit your children for them to become great members of society as they age. whether it's a slap across the back of the head, a few spanks on the bottom or a good ole fashion whoopin' ... it's not needed and only breeds contempt, fear and mistrust ... although many mistake that for obedience and respect.

I feel like there is no middle gorund on this one...either you thinks it's just fine and dandy, or it makes you feel sad for kids who are hit, whooped, smacked...

[*Robert* 2]

*waves at Frances*

Hey there!!!

[Sister Fracas 5]

*waves at Frances*

Hey there!!!

hiya Brother Robert!!!

[incanada1234 0]

what makes me sad in these cases with children ... is that if a mother/father does this in public, i only cringe to think what they do to their children when they're alone.

Exactly. I don't even want to think about it. And I would wager the 'mother' was treated cruelly as a child.

She's despicable for speaking harshly to her child (when she's obviously injured) but it's OK for innocent Iraqi/Palestinian/Lebanese/etc children to die/be dismembered as casualties of war...

Didn't read my entire post, eh? If she was only guilty of whispering harshly to the child, I wouldn't have even started this thread.