White @ HCMC... What next?!?

[DansJourney 0]

Not true, they will not link the two cases, as they are seperate. If you once again prove that your relationship is creditable then it will start all over again. The second time you file, you must confront the reasons for the first denial, or it will probably get denied again unless you get a different CO that feels differently about your case. Just because you were denied, this does not mean your fiancee is on a fraud list, or you. The only way you will get a instant denial is if you get caught doing actual visa fraud, and with the denial, this means no fraud has been committed as she was never in AMERICA. As far as the first denial, the consulate will have that information, but with you refiling this shows that you have strong intent to be with her, this helps prove your relationship is strong, that is IF you can disprove the reasons they gave for your first denial. Good luck on what ever you decide to do, but know that there are options and just because of a denial does NOT mean a instant denial when you refile.

Jerome and Binh

Okay thanks! That was the information I was looking for. Do you have a link that states that the cases are separate? As of today, our NOA expired. I guess we just sit and gather evidence and then re-file. Any suggestions on whether or not to rebuttal and then re-file, which ever comes first?

There are few things, I would want to point out if I were to rebuttal:

1. The second CO that interviewed Ha was different from the first and mis-read information provided.

2. The date mix up was by notes of one CO to another, since on the timline it clearly states dates in chronological order.

3. CO stated that we were introduced by a mutual friend, where clearly it states cousin, with name.

4. The blue slip we received the first time, didn't say Dam Hoi was an explicit requirement.

5. Additional evidence was not reviewed at any of the interviews.

Edited December 24, 2009 by DansJourney

[Anh map 2,098]

Okay thanks! That was the information I was looking for. Do you have a link that states that the cases are separate? As of today, our NOA expired. I guess we just sit and gather evidence and then re-file. Any suggestions on whether or not to rebuttal and then re-file, which ever comes first?

There are few things, I would want to point out if I were to rebuttal:

1. The second CO that interviewed Ha was different from the first and mis-read information provided.

2. The date mix up was by notes of one CO to another, since on the timline it clearly states dates in chronological order.

3. CO stated that we were introduced by a mutual friend, where clearly it states cousin, with name.

4. The blue slip we received the first time, didn't say Dam Hoi was an explicit requirement.

5. Additional evidence was not reviewed at any of the interviews.

The totality of all information presented and available is considered. Therefore the first petition/case will be in the mix. How you address the issues raised in the denial will determine the outcome of a second petition.

The Dam Hoi is not required by US law. However it is a big cultural norm in VN. So the CO's see that as a public announcement of the couple's intentions. Have some cases been approved with out an engagement ceremony, yes. Have many more been denied due to a lack of Dam Hoi, yes. As the slip you receieved stated the CO applies the "reasonable person standard" when evaluating a case. A reasonable person familiar with VN culture would expect a couple to have one.

Don't get hung up on the who introduced you "mutual friend" definition. From what you've stated the date discrepancy is the larger issue. If it was a misread, that ought not to happen the next time. And assuming that your fiancee is more sure of her answers and calmer the story of your relationship will flow more easily.

Fill in the thin parts of your submission. When preparing your submission always try to think like a CO. From reading some US Foreign Service officer's blogs they want to get it right. But they can only valuate information that is available to them. Give them the evidence to see the growth of your relationship.

Don't get yourselves discouraged and get stuck trying to affix blame for the white slip. Support each other as you prepare for a better petition that will get the pink slip.

[DansJourney 0]

The totality of all information presented and available is considered. Therefore the first petition/case will be in the mix. How you address the issues raised in the denial will determine the outcome of a second petition.

The Dam Hoi is not required by US law. However it is a big cultural norm in VN. So the CO's see that as a public announcement of the couple's intentions. Have some cases been approved with out an engagement ceremony, yes. Have many more been denied due to a lack of Dam Hoi, yes. As the slip you receieved stated the CO applies the "reasonable person standard" when evaluating a case. A reasonable person familiar with VN culture would expect a couple to have one.

Don't get hung up on the who introduced you "mutual friend" definition. From what you've stated the date discrepancy is the larger issue. If it was a misread, that ought not to happen the next time. And assuming that your fiancee is more sure of her answers and calmer the story of your relationship will flow more easily.

Fill in the thin parts of your submission. When preparing your submission always try to think like a CO. From reading some US Foreign Service officer's blogs they want to get it right. But they can only valuate information that is available to them. Give them the evidence to see the growth of your relationship.

Don't get yourselves discouraged and get stuck trying to affix blame for the white slip. Support each other as you prepare for a better petition that will get the pink slip.

There is some fight left in us.. We're just trying to gather a good sense of direction, not necessarily pointing fingers. Thanks for everyone's feedback.

[DansJourney 0]

Ha and I have been researching forums to seek out some advice and we came up with our next course of action.

We can't re-file without addressing the concerns that was outlined in our denial. So at best we're looking at the end of next year.

I have sent an email directly to the HCM consulate outlining concerns Ha and I had and request that they do not administratively close our case. Let me know if anyone is interested in our results. If not, I can just let this thread end its life.

Thank you to all those on VJ and outside of VJ that have been given us constructive feedback.

Daniel & Ha

Edited December 26, 2009 by DansJourney

[wratran 0]

To address the future wedding plan questions, this is what we did:

We submit the future wedding plan in our timeline as the last chronoligical items.

I just pick a random place in my city for the wedding reception. Printed their pricing list and took some pictures. We picked a random number for guests...around 50-100.

For the wedding dinner, i did the same thing...found a catering company online and printed their menu with pricing.

We realized that in real life scenario, we would plan a wedding after visa approval and once she arrived in the U.S.. But because of CO's reasoning, we have to satisfy them first....I wanted our wedding plan to be decided between the 2 of us...once she is here to see the actual place and environment.

[What's next 1]

Let me get this straight? your interview was in november, they requested a timeline. you came back a month later with the timeline and they drop this bomb on you? did you re-interviewed you the second time? or did you just sumbit the timeline?

does anyone else think that they request a timeline almost automatically to buy time?

[ScottThuy 140]

I think it is a combination of reasons...

1. to buy time when there is ANY doubt

2. to gather additional info to use against the beneficiary in the event of additional questioning or to compare to previous info presented.. another tool to poke holes in the case(they are not there to prove the relationship the CO is there to find fraud if it exists)

And then if more time is needed they just use the AP card...

I suspect they have a standard 30 day timeframe when issuing the first blue (timeline or list of relatives or any other excuse) and usually 90 days in AP with a decision notification a week or so later..., but many have exceeded that timeframe for AP Fred and Dao were in it for 9 months.

[vietazn 1]

From calling up and talking to dich vu, they request timelines when there is reason to doubt the relationship.

Otherwise they would have just approved it. After all, some people don't submit timelines, and are not requested to do so, and get approved. The consulate can use the timeline to check for inconsistencies. While they might finally approve the visa, by receiving the timeline, they can pass it on to immigration for use in interviews in the future. Because the timelines are requested when there is reason to doubt the relationship, it is unknown whether providing one from the beginning without being asked is a good thing.

[DansJourney 0]

I believe vietazn and ScottThuy are both correct. In our case, they used the timeline against us. The second CO clearly nit picked at our dates (It is also my fault as well). in our timeline, therefore stating there was discrepancy with the date Ha gave and what was on the timeline. Based on what was stated in the denial letter, it was quite clear that they were looking for any reasons to call our relationship a sham.

"I, DansJourney, a citizen of the U.S. am the fiancé of Ha. The following is a sworn affidavit documenting the timeline of our relationship during <b>04-17-2008</b> to present.

In March 2008, I was introduced to Ha by my cousin. Ha and my cousin worked at ____ together and have been the best of friends throughout their career at _____. Ha and I chatted for several months before our relationship became serious. In August of 2008, is when Ha and I realized we were more than friends."

In March my cousin spoke to both of us about each other, etc... CLEARLY, this was a mistake in our part for putting it in.

We're currently talking about next steps if we can't keep this petition at HCMC.

Edited December 31, 2009 by DansJourney

[feelinglucky 1]

Ha and I have been researching forums to seek out some advice and we came up with our next course of action.

We can't re-file without addressing the concerns that was outlined in our denial. So at best we're looking at the end of next year.

Thank you to all those on VJ and outside of VJ that have been given us constructive feedback.

Daniel & Ha

Dan, Yes you do have to address the reasons for the denial , but it doesnt mean you have to have an engagement ceremony for the rebuttal. You can just explain why you couldnt have one at the time. Your chance to rubutt the consulate findings not only mean that you can dispute what they said, but also explain the circumstances as well. As for the other reasons you shouldnt have any problems. You admitted that your first petition was not prepared well, which is why I think you were denied. It not solely based on you not having an engagement ceremony. You should try and give it another chance, and not give up on one because of one reason. Good Luck

[fred n Dao Honey 0]

Your getting a lot of good advice here. After being in AP for 168 days I have only two points to add.

First, you can file as many K-1 applications at the same time as you want, there is no limit. Your old application has expired. On your new application you have to note the previous application.

Second, Read Read Read then Act on what you read. They make the rules, use them. When I was in AP they said they don't need anything from me. They are conducting an investigation needing more time to process. I started giving them more stuff to process. I taught Dao how to get inside the embassy to add more evidence. They have to take it! Their rules say you can add more after they give you the blue paper. They did look at all the new stuff we submited.

I strongly agree they try to test us. I actually banged on the window tray inside to get their attention on about day 150 of AP. I still get extra Hero kisses for that.

I think what Feelinglucky wrote would be my course of action if I was you. File again now. You can have your engagement ceremony while the paperwork is processing.

[DansJourney 0]

File now and then have the ceremony means not being able to adequately front loading the application. So I'm still thinking about that one.

[luckytxn 2,264]

Just kind of curious but why did you both not talk about the questions that may be asked and both gotten on the same sheet? It has pretty much always been asked how and when each have met so it would have been fruitful to talk about that and been sure that she would have answered as the timeline you submitted.

[DansJourney 0]

Just kind of curious but why did you both not talk about the questions that may be asked and both gotten on the same sheet? It has pretty much always been asked how and when each have met so it would have been fruitful to talk about that and been sure that she would have answered as the timeline you submitted.

We did talk about it, like I've said in my previous post, I had two dates (Our mistake, I know), I explicit stated the timeline is from a to z but also gave a little background of the date my cousin had talked/planned an introduction, which was a month before. Again horrible mistake on our part to put that second date in. But if the CO really read the timeline it would have been clear that I agree with her answer. That mistake gave the CO the ability to say we had conflicting dates.

Plain and simple, we didn't realize we had to prove so much. It sucks and we're now living through it. It will be better next time.