White @ HCMC... What next?!?

[DansJourney 0]

Ha and I received white yesterday. It is irritating that they made their decision without looking at our evidence.

i'll post details later as I am still on the phone with Ha and calming her down. I haven't done much digging but, any information anyone can give on next steps to appeal or keep the application feom coming back to the U.S. would really help.

You're unlucky when:

1. Interview is scheduled on ur bday

2. Your fiancee takes the number corresponding to your bday.

3. And fiancee waits 4 hours just to get the white slip.

Daniel & Ha

[DansJourney 0]

I still need to get the exact reason for denial from Ha later this evening. However, I did notice that our approval notice will expire 12/24/2009. I'm assuming that it was intentionally that they scheduled the interview on 12/23/2009.

The question that I have is, Will the CO still have the ability to mark the petition 212(a)(6)©(i)/P6C or after the approval notice expires the CO can't really do anything?

[Anh map 2,098]

What reasons are stated on the letter? Is it a straight denial?

[DansJourney 0]

What reasons are stated on the letter? Is it a straight denial?

According to Ha, they stated that lack of engagement party (Dinh Hon), Ha didn't know my supervisor's name, and did not answered the month we met accurately. In the timeline I had stated we met in March but chronologically we started with April being a significant event (as in exchanged pictures). Ha answered April instead of March, not realizing that they would nit pick at the subtle differences.

I will most definitely post an update once Ha is up and can give me a scanned copy.

[BinhJerome 14]

According to Ha, they stated that lack of engagement party (Dinh Hon), Ha didn't know my supervisor's name, and did not answered the month we met accurately. In the timeline I had stated we met in March but chronologically we started with April being a significant event (as in exchanged pictures). Ha answered April instead of March, not realizing that they would nit pick at the subtle differences.

I will most definitely post an update once Ha is up and can give me a scanned copy.

There is not really anything you can do. The CO is able to play god, and that is the truth of the matter. You may file a rebuttal, or file for a new visa application. The choice is truly yours. I hired an attorney and they went to USCIS to confront the reason for denial, the people our attorney was in contact with stated that it was definately not handled correctly, and if they could they would have issued a visa the very same day, however it is not in their power to grant ANY visa, even though we proved that our case was mishandled and that we proved the CO doing the interview has intentionally lied and denied the visa there was still nothing they could do, and we were informed we could do the rebuttal which would mean the application would get sent back to HCMC cousulate and another interview would take place, and which the initial CO would more than likely be a part of the next decision as well, or we could refile a new application, and if we did that it would be luck of the draw as to what CO would look at that case. It is really sad that this has happened for you, especially with the holidays at hand. My opnion is to do a rebuttal, or refile. Preferably refile, it might be quicker since you will not be able to do a rebuttal untill the USCIS in america contacts you stating they have your case back here for the denial. Last week I finally got notice that HCMC was "SENDING" it back, strange that it has been well over a month since the denial and about 20 days since our attorney gave us the information they gor back from the USCIS in america. If you do a rebuttal, there is no real amount of time that it can take. I have heard it taking a few weeks, or a couple of years. The fact of the matter is that you can not do a rebuttal until USCIS notifies you and asks you if you want to do the rebuttal, but you CAN file today, and you can expect the 7 months or so until it is complete.

Good luck in what ever you choose.

Jerome

[DansJourney 0]

There is not really anything you can do. The CO is able to play god, and that is the truth of the matter. You may file a rebuttal, or file for a new visa application. The choice is truly yours. I hired an attorney and they went to USCIS to confront the reason for denial, the people our attorney was in contact with stated that it was definately not handled correctly, and if they could they would have issued a visa the very same day, however it is not in their power to grant ANY visa, even though we proved that our case was mishandled and that we proved the CO doing the interview has intentionally lied and denied the visa there was still nothing they could do, and we were informed we could do the rebuttal which would mean the application would get sent back to HCMC cousulate and another interview would take place, and which the initial CO would more than likely be a part of the next decision as well, or we could refile a new application, and if we did that it would be luck of the draw as to what CO would look at that case. It is really sad that this has happened for you, especially with the holidays at hand. My opnion is to do a rebuttal, or refile. Preferably refile, it might be quicker since you will not be able to do a rebuttal untill the USCIS in america contacts you stating they have your case back here for the denial. Last week I finally got notice that HCMC was "SENDING" it back, strange that it has been well over a month since the denial and about 20 days since our attorney gave us the information they gor back from the USCIS in america. If you do a rebuttal, there is no real amount of time that it can take. I have heard it taking a few weeks, or a couple of years. The fact of the matter is that you can not do a rebuttal until USCIS notifies you and asks you if you want to do the rebuttal, but you CAN file today, and you can expect the 7 months or so until it is complete.

Good luck in what ever you choose.

Jerome

Thanks Jerome! I'm hesitant in refiling atm since I do not know exactly how the first petition is going to be closed. Whether or not they just let the approval to expire. Therefore, raising a concern for me to either appeal or let it close and refile to address the concerns. Does anyone else have more info on rebuttal vs. Refiling?

[ScottThuy 140]

Dan,

touch base with Kevin and Tuyen.. they just went through being sent back and can give you some insight into what to expect and since they were reaffirmed... there is light at the end of the tunnel you just entered..

[Dakine 26]

CALL your senator/congressman that has a GOOD immigration person on their staff. You'll have to ask. I went thru it on my first denial. Congressman was worthless but a person on my senators staff was and still is HOT.

They found out the exact reasons for denial.

[feelinglucky 1]

Hi, Dan if you want persue your petition for the same classification for your fiancee and not waste time waiting for someting that not going to happen. Then you should refile immedately. 1) your not going to get a chance to rebut because your going thru CSC. 2) by refiling right away USCIS will acept your new petition because the first one is still in approved status. If you wait too long the first petition status will change, and USCIS will not accept new petition. In 1 month your going to get a letter from vietnam consulate stating they are sending back petition. 1 month after that USCIS will send you a letter stating they received the petition for review. But that will be it, your petiton already has expired, But if you dig hard enough you can get someone to send you a letter stating your petition has already been DOA and your free to refile. By this time you will have wasted over 4 months. After USCIS starts to review your new petition they will link your 2 cases, and send you an Intent to Deny Notice for your new petition. The reason they want to deny will be exactly what the consulate finding were. Now this is what you have been waiting for, you chance to rebut officer findings.by this time you should already have gathered more evidence and information about the previous denial. You will have some bumps do the road, meaning the petition wont be a smooth as the first one. But at least your back in the game. Good Luck feelinglucky

[vietazn 1]

According to Ha, they stated that lack of engagement party (Dinh Hon), Ha didn't know my supervisor's name, and did not answered the month we met accurately. In the timeline I had stated we met in March but chronologically we started with April being a significant event (as in exchanged pictures). Ha answered April instead of March, not realizing that they would nit pick at the subtle differences.

I will most definitely post an update once Ha is up and can give me a scanned copy.

They nit picked at those 2 questions because those questions are matters of fact. There can be only one date for Dam Hoi and only one date for when you both met. Now if don't understand the question, have to ask for clarification or respond that you met in March and exchanged pictures in April. But I think asking about the supervisor's name is intended to trip people up because it is an answer that seems to be memorized instead of known because supervisors change over time. It might show that both people talk to each other about work, but it really has no other point.

Not sure what white forms are for, and also what the green forms some people received are for. Anyoe know?

[DansJourney 0]

Update:

*Section 221(g) of the Act prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone who has failed to present documents required in connection with the visa application, or who has failed to submit sufficient credible evidence to support the claimed petitionable relationship.

Photographs submitted as evidence of relationship indicate that Petitioner and Beneficiary have spent only three or four days together.

I've been to VN twice, both times spent 2-3 weeks with Ha, our first visit had lack of photos since we didn't think of applying for K1. The second time, I was in VN we had more photos. Because they did not accept any new evidence at the first interview (except for photos), I'm assuming they're making a lot of their decisions based on the petition application I had filed.

I would agree that the petition I filed was bare bone, compared to what I would have filed today.

Beneficiary and or Petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. blah blah blah

This is true. We did not have an engagement celebration because may parent could not attend, and in VN cultures for the most part it's to safe face of family. Ha and I are going to have to look past that and continue with the party with or without them.

Based on information from Petitioner (via interview, and, or documentation), Beneficiary is not aware of basic facts about Petitioner. For example while Beneficiary is aware of Petitioner's current job title, Beneficiary is unaware of Petitioner's current boss, or for whom Petitioner worked prior to current job.

I do not know if this is a blanket statement but they did not ask her for my current job title (which she knows the answer to). They did ask for my boss's name (This is ridiculous no one in my family or my closest friends know who my boss is, why do they know nor care?).

Beneficiary's account for basic facts regarding claimed marriage in the U.S. For example, Beneficiary does not know the name of guests, approximate costs of the ceremony. etc..

They asked her how many people, and who is all attending, and where at. They answered correctly except for the the who is attending part. She said family and friends, but they were looking for names. Okay, She knows two of my best friends and their names. But, how are you going to name guests with names that you really haven't met or known?

Beneficiary's account of basic facts regarding the claimed relationship is not creditably. For example, Beneficiary has stated that Petitioner have planned a honeymoon, but Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts such as destination, hotel, duration or approximate costs) etc....

While, I understand the intent of this, it's a bit ridiculous. Marriage is a joint effort, so would it not be a good idea for her to figure out what she likes around here in the first month and then plan our say honey moon and what not? We had basic ideas, but apparently bad idea to name them.

*Your case is administratively closed. Consular officers apply a 'reasonable person standard' when evaluating the bona fides of claimed spousal, fiance(e) and other relationships. These facts (above) as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person that the claimed relationship is a sham entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws (or is otherwise invalid). Therefore, pursuant to 9 FAM 41.81 N6.5, the reviewing officer has decided that the petition should be returned to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) with the recommendation that it be revoked. etc.....

They also miss read my timeline:

"Petitioner and Beneficiary's Chronologies of the claimed contradict on the a fundamental point. In sworn and notairzed statement, Petitioner claimed that Beneficiary was introduced by a mutual friend in March of 08. Beneficiary claimed April 08."

The person wasn't a mutual friend, the person was my cousin, and Ha's friend.

In the timeline I claimed that my cousin had approached me in March and we exchanged pictures in April. The timeline chronology started in April.

They really go that one wrong...

I'm just a bit frustrated right now..

Thanks for all the feedback!

feelinglucky:

At this rate, I do not think I can refile, since Ha and I have to address the concerns that were raised. One in particular being our engagement party.

Edited December 24, 2009 by DansJourney

[Dau Que 6]

OP, They (the Consulate/CO) are testing you. If you really love her, spend more time and $$ resource to fight. For example, fly over there, personally come to the Consulate to fight, hire that "famous" attorney over there.

Your plan was ill-planned (no engagement ceremony). The damage was done. You won't win by sitting here in the States, posting your "opinion" about their decision, no matter how ridiculous or non-sense you feel about those decisions.

Remember, some of the CO's staff might be reading this forum. Life is never fair. Which direction you choose to move forward is yours only to make, though.

To all that involved with someone overseas and will eventually have to go through the INS to bring your loved one to the States: Make sure your stomach is strong enough to deal with stress, $$$ resource requirement, and last but not least, lots of effort. The USCIS is not there to make both of your lives easier, due to the fact that the US gov't wanna control the amount of immigration.

Recently, the head of the USCIS announced the agency was facing a huge budget problem but she also hesitated to let go her staff workers (sigh, only the gov't can do this). So you can see it's not in the interest of the USCIS to give a green light to every petitioner at the first try. They'll find every possible hole of your case, the smallest they can find, to force you refiling (more $$$ paid to the system). Yes, it's sad, but you're in the game and you have to play with the rule which someone already made for you.

Edited December 24, 2009 by Dau Que

[ScottThuy 140]

Tuan (petitioner) was actually able to get an additional interview after the denial when he was in AP.. unfortunatly he had not overcome the hurdles before the additional interview...

[BinhJerome 14]

Hi, Dan if you want persue your petition for the same classification for your fiancee and not waste time waiting for someting that not going to happen. Then you should refile immedately. 1) your not going to get a chance to rebut because your going thru CSC. 2) by refiling right away USCIS will acept your new petition because the first one is still in approved status. If you wait too long the first petition status will change, and USCIS will not accept new petition. In 1 month your going to get a letter from vietnam consulate stating they are sending back petition. 1 month after that USCIS will send you a letter stating they received the petition for review. But that will be it, your petiton already has expired, But if you dig hard enough you can get someone to send you a letter stating your petition has already been DOA and your free to refile. By this time you will have wasted over 4 months. After USCIS starts to review your new petition they will link your 2 cases, and send you an Intent to Deny Notice for your new petition. The reason they want to deny will be exactly what the consulate finding were. Now this is what you have been waiting for, you chance to rebut officer findings.by this time you should already have gathered more evidence and information about the previous denial. You will have some bumps do the road, meaning the petition wont be a smooth as the first one. But at least your back in the game. Good Luck feelinglucky

Not true, they will not link the two cases, as they are seperate. If you once again prove that your relationship is creditable then it will start all over again. The second time you file, you must confront the reasons for the first denial, or it will probably get denied again unless you get a different CO that feels differently about your case. Just because you were denied, this does not mean your fiancee is on a fraud list, or you. The only way you will get a instant denial is if you get caught doing actual visa fraud, and with the denial, this means no fraud has been committed as she was never in AMERICA. As far as the first denial, the consulate will have that information, but with you refiling this shows that you have strong intent to be with her, this helps prove your relationship is strong, that is IF you can disprove the reasons they gave for your first denial. Good luck on what ever you decide to do, but know that there are options and just because of a denial does NOT mean a instant denial when you refile.

Jerome and Binh

[BinhJerome 14]

Update:

*Section 221(g) of the Act prohibits the issuance of a visa to anyone who has failed to present documents required in connection with the visa application, or who has failed to submit sufficient credible evidence to support the claimed petitionable relationship.

Photographs submitted as evidence of relationship indicate that Petitioner and Beneficiary have spent only three or four days together.

I've been to VN twice, both times spent 2-3 weeks with Ha, our first visit had lack of photos since we didn't think of applying for K1. The second time, I was in VN we had more photos. Because they did not accept any new evidence at the first interview (except for photos), I'm assuming they're making a lot of their decisions based on the petition application I had filed.

I would agree that the petition I filed was bare bone, compared to what I would have filed today.

Beneficiary and or Petitioner submitted no evidence of any engagement celebration. blah blah blah

This is true. We did not have an engagement celebration because may parent could not attend, and in VN cultures for the most part it's to safe face of family. Ha and I are going to have to look past that and continue with the party with or without them.

Based on information from Petitioner (via interview, and, or documentation), Beneficiary is not aware of basic facts about Petitioner. For example while Beneficiary is aware of Petitioner's current job title, Beneficiary is unaware of Petitioner's current boss, or for whom Petitioner worked prior to current job.

I do not know if this is a blanket statement but they did not ask her for my current job title (which she knows the answer to). They did ask for my boss's name (This is ridiculous no one in my family or my closest friends know who my boss is, why do they know nor care?).

Beneficiary's account for basic facts regarding claimed marriage in the U.S. For example, Beneficiary does not know the name of guests, approximate costs of the ceremony. etc..

They asked her how many people, and who is all attending, and where at. They answered correctly except for the the who is attending part. She said family and friends, but they were looking for names. Okay, She knows two of my best friends and their names. But, how are you going to name guests with names that you really haven't met or known?

Beneficiary's account of basic facts regarding the claimed relationship is not creditably. For example, Beneficiary has stated that Petitioner have planned a honeymoon, but Beneficiary is unable to provide basic facts such as destination, hotel, duration or approximate costs) etc....

While, I understand the intent of this, it's a bit ridiculous. Marriage is a joint effort, so would it not be a good idea for her to figure out what she likes around here in the first month and then plan our say honey moon and what not? We had basic ideas, but apparently bad idea to name them.

*Your case is administratively closed. Consular officers apply a 'reasonable person standard' when evaluating the bona fides of claimed spousal, fiance(e) and other relationships. These facts (above) as ascertained by consular officers would convince a reasonable person that the claimed relationship is a sham entered into solely for immigration purposes and to evade immigration laws (or is otherwise invalid). Therefore, pursuant to 9 FAM 41.81 N6.5, the reviewing officer has decided that the petition should be returned to the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) with the recommendation that it be revoked. etc.....

They also miss read my timeline:

"Petitioner and Beneficiary's Chronologies of the claimed contradict on the a fundamental point. In sworn and notairzed statement, Petitioner claimed that Beneficiary was introduced by a mutual friend in March of 08. Beneficiary claimed April 08."

The person wasn't a mutual friend, the person was my cousin, and Ha's friend.

In the timeline I claimed that my cousin had approached me in March and we exchanged pictures in April. The timeline chronology started in April.

They really go that one wrong...

I'm just a bit frustrated right now..

Thanks for all the feedback!

feelinglucky:

At this rate, I do not think I can refile, since Ha and I have to address the concerns that were raised. One in particular being our engagement party.

My opnion is that they were wanting to deny you no matter what. You said that they would not accept evidence. They have to take what you submit. At the interview they might not accept it, but you can go back and give them photos, emails, and other things. As far as the wedding plans, tell them that the us consulate tells people to not make plans until after you get the visa, so the only plan is that you will be married within 90 days of your arrival to america, and that as soon as you land you are both planning on planning your wedding. As far as the other things, just confront them one at a time, people make mistakes, if you do refile, just go over your timeline time and again, over and over, make sure she knows every last thing on that timeline, as far as other information, if she does not know the answer be honest, no since in making up an answer then have them ask it a different way to recieve a different answer. It looks to me like they didnt like your application, much as they did not like mine. There are options, you can wait to refile, or refile asap. You can move there and live there for a while possibly then try to file again. It just depends on how important your relationship is and how strong it is. If it is strong and both of you are strong give it time and refile, if you cant live without her, then refile asap or plan on moving there to be with her. Just do what is best for the both of you. Good luck on what ever you decide on doing.

Jerome and Binh