Change Nobody Believes In: A bill so reckless that it has to be rammed through on a partisan vote on Christmas eve

[PhiLandShiR 18]

I just want the same health coverage that our beloved congress and senators have...

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

QFWTF!

Too bad Sen. Jim "We-Will-Make-Health-Care-Reform-Obama's-Waterloo" DeMint has an issue with his attention span. Right there at the bottom of quoted page 1020 and right after the passage that Sen. Jim "We-Will-Make-Health-Care-Reform-Obama's-Waterloo" DeMint gets all worked up about, it reads:

‘‘(D) WAIVER.—This paragraph may be waived or suspended in the Senate only by the affirmative vote of three-fifths of the Members, duly chosen and sworn.

Three-fifths. That's 60 Senators. Does that number sound familiar? Oh yeah, that's the number of Senators it takes to get it passed. Why should it take any less to change it?

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

But it takes 2/3 to change it to that. I know you know 2/3 > 3/5

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But it takes 2/3 to change it to that. I know you know 2/3 > 3/5

Says who aside from Sen. Jim "We-Will-Make-Health-Care-Reform-Obama's-Waterloo" DeMint ?

[Kevin and 10]

I just want the same health coverage that our beloved congress and senators have...

I want their retirement plan too.

[Danno 1,228]

Something I don't understand.

Why does the majority of comments about the bill make it sound like this is the end all / be all to healthcare in the US?

The law if it passes won't be written in stone, it isn't being added to the constitution. The law doesn't have to be 100% right on the first try, that is the greatest part of the American legal system. We can and will make changes to the laws on the books. If the health care plan isn't working we can change it.

And if the conservatives don't like the bill, they can change it or get the law repealed.

Isn't this how the legal system works? Did I miss something?

I appreciate your sense of humor as we all know it's nearly impossible to stop a program once it is started.

A fine example is all the help the Gov't has brought to education... especially Black childrens education which W. Williams hammers here.

http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWill...black_education

But another reason is these programs grow and grow.. in fact, the more of a failure they turn out to be the more reason to get in there and "fix" them.

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[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I appreciate your sense of humor as we all know it's nearly impossible to stop a program once it is started.

If it is largely unpopular and disliked, anyone can campaign against it, will be elected and can work in the Congress to effect a change or repeal it altogether. Just because it ain't easy, doesn't mean it can't be done. If the people don't support candidates that are running against a program then that would suggest that the program is supported by the public and deserves to stay.

[BluesTraveler 0]

I appreciate your sense of humor as we all know it's nearly impossible to stop a program once it is started.

The Volstead Act?? aka Prohibition. The constitution and laws in the US can be changed and egregiously bad laws do get changed. A silent voice can't be heard.

A fine example is all the help the Gov't has brought to education... especially Black childrens education which W. Williams hammers here.

Are you saying the government shouldn't educate children? Or are you saying that the government has failed children?

The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 doesn't seem to be working. OK, great, fine -- now let's change it!

[Danno 1,228]

The Volstead Act?? aka Prohibition. The constitution and laws in the US can be changed and egregiously bad laws do get changed. A silent voice can't be heard.

Are you saying the government shouldn't educate children? Or are you saying that the government has failed children?

The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 doesn't seem to be working. OK, great, fine -- now let's change it!

-Don't tell me you have to go back nearly a century ago to find an example (forgive me if I chuckle).

Of course your example was not indicative of the type of "entitlement programs" we were talking about anyway.

-Yes I am saying the children of America were better educated (by far) BEFORE the Federal Gov't got involved.

And thanks for highlighting my earlier point where I claimed -programs never go away they just get fixed and cost more-

Your response to the failure of meaningful results after unheard of money spent on NoChild Left Behind.....

<<<The No Child Left Behind Act of 2001 doesn't seem to be working. OK, great, fine -- now let's change it!>>>

[BluesTraveler 0]

-Yes I am saying the children of America were better educated (by far) BEFORE the Federal Gov't got involved.

You do know the Federal Government doesn't educate children, right?

Edited December 24, 2009 by BluesTraveler

[Danno 1,228]

You do know the Federal Government doesn't educate children, right?

I doubt anyone believes that they do is, spend lot and lots of money on this effort with the end result worse than when they started.

As a percentage, of total dollars spent on Public education, the feds contribution at the school house in small..... which underscores the primary point. WHERE IS THE MONEY and the inability to stop spending it.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

I doubt anyone believes that they do is, spend lot and lots of money on this effort with the end result worse than when they started.

As a percentage, of total dollars spent on Public education, the feds contribution at the school house in small..... which underscores the primary point. WHERE IS THE MONEY and the inability to stop spending it.

Try slapping a law suit on your English teacher, reading that comment, we can all feel your anger and bitterness.

[Danno 1,228]

Try slapping a law suit on your English teacher, reading that comment, we can all feel your anger and bitterness.

Whistle if you like but I do get angry when I consider That we actually have a Department of Education (in a Cabinet level position).... and we have sad stories like this all over the country.

http://townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWill...black_education

Bottom line, this Bill to make Healthcare a "right" will be as big a farce as the "Right" to an education.

How is it the govt had never delivered on the Right to education.... yet you believe they can deliver healthcare?

Nearly all of us would agree a -minimum basic education is a responsibility of our society,

And yet for many this is all they get..... and you think this Health Care RIGHT is going to work out?

It's laughable to suggest the GOV that fails to ensure 6th graders are taught basic math can handle the complexities of managing the Heathcare system more effectively than the private sector.

TAKE NOTE- THE President sends his kids to private schools.

------------------------------------

Black Education

Detroit's (predominantly black) public schools are the worst in the nation and it takes some doing to be worse than Washington, D.C. Only 3 percent of Detroit's fourth-graders scored proficient on the most recent National Assessment of Education Progress (NAEP) test, sometimes called "The Nation's Report Card." Twenty-eight percent scored basic and 69 percent below basic. "Below basic" is the NAEP category when students are unable to demonstrate even partial mastery of knowledge and skills fundamental for proficient work at their grade level. It's the same story for Detroit's eighth-graders. Four percent scored proficient, 18 percent basic and 77 percent below basic.

Michael Casserly, executive director of the D.C.-based Council on Great City Schools, in an article appearing in Crain's Detroit Business, (12/8/09) titled, "Detroit's Public Schools Post Worst Scores on Record in National Assessment," said, "There is no jurisdiction of any kind, at any level, at any time in the 30-year history of NAEP that has ever registered such low numbers." The academic performance of black students in other large cities such as Philadelphia, Chicago, New York and Los Angeles is not much better than Detroit and Washington.

What's to be done about this tragic state of black education? The education establishment and politicians tell us that we need to spend more for higher teacher pay and smaller class size. The fact of business is higher teacher salaries and smaller class sizes mean little or nothing in terms of academic achievement. Washington, D.C., for example spends over $15,000 per student, has class sizes smaller than the nation's average, and with an average annual salary of $61,195, its teachers are the most highly paid in the nation.

What about role models? Standard psychobabble asserts a positive relationship between the race of teachers and administrators and student performance. That's nonsense. Black academic performance is the worst in the very cities where large percentages of teachers and administrators are black, and often the school superintendent is black, the mayor is black, most of the city council is black and very often the chief of police is black.

Black people have accepted hare-brained ideas that have made large percentages of black youngsters virtually useless in an increasingly technological economy. This destruction will continue until the day comes when black people are willing to turn their backs on liberals and the education establishment's agenda and confront issues that are both embarrassing and uncomfortable. To a lesser extent, this also applies to whites because the educational performance of many white kids is nothing to write home about; it's just not the disaster that black education is.

Many black students are alien and hostile to the education process. They have parents with little interest in their education. These students not only sabotage the education process, but make schools unsafe as well. These students should not be permitted to destroy the education chances of others. They should be removed or those students who want to learn should be provided with a mechanism to go to another school.

Another issue deemed too delicate to discuss is the overall quality of people teaching our children. Students who have chosen education as their major have the lowest SAT scores of any other major. Students who have an education degree earn lower scores than any other major on graduate school admission tests such as the GRE, MCAT or LSAT. Schools of education, either graduate or undergraduate, represent the academic slums of most any university. They are home to the least able students and professors. Schools of education should be shut down.

Yet another issue is the academic fraud committed by teachers and administrators. After all, what is it when a student is granted a diploma certifying a 12th grade level of achievement when in fact he can't perform at the sixth- or seventh-grade level?

Prospects for improvement in black education are not likely given the cozy relationship between black politicians, civil rights organizations and teacher unions.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's laughable to suggest the GOV that fails to ensure 6th graders are taught basic math can handle the complexities of managing the Heathcare system more effectively than the private sector.

And yet, it is doing just that today. Despite the obvious disadvantage Medicare (a government program) has due to it being tasked to care for those that consume by far the most health care services, it is doing a better job in per enrollee cost containment than the PHI (the private sector) which gets to select who it will and won't cover.

[Danno 1,228]

And yet, it is doing just that today. Despite the obvious disadvantage Medicare (a government program) has due to it being tasked to care for those that consume by far the most health care services, it is doing a better job in per enrollee cost containment than the PHI (the private sector) which gets to select who it will and won't cover.

When a plane is doomed to crash, one can order a drink.. thumb through the "Sky Miles" magazine and claim "all is well" but the inevitable ending does not change.

Here is the projected outlook for this successful program, it's also a good indication why we will all be supporting those "death panels"

Not only do we have this to deal with we are embarking on financing an ever expanding healthcare program for "all peoples of the world" who happen to get to our soil.

<<<Medicare spending is growing steadily in both absolute terms and as a percentage of the federal budget. Total Medicare spending reached $440 billion for fiscal year 2007, or 16% of all federal spending. The only larger categories of federal spending are Social Security and defense. Given the current pattern of spending growth, maintaining Medicare's financing over the long-term may well require significant changes.[41]>>>