Federal Employees at the Trough

[one...two...tree 2,762]

No. My post was in response to the claim that it's obvious what a living wage is. I contend that it isn't. I also believe the term living wage is very misleading, since it includes many things not required to live. It's really a "keeping up with the Joneses wage." I don't think we need to make laws to pay a "keeping up with the Joneses" wage.

I looked at your cost of living data for the county that I live in and my current family size, and I find the estimate to be hugely inaccurate. We eat out quite a bit and don't spend near that amount on food. Housing and medical are also huge overestimates. The estimate for the area where I lived previously is also ridiculously high.

When you apply for a home loan, the bank uses a calculator to determine what kind of monthly mortgage payment is within your range. It's not that difficult to calculate other factors in determining what kind of wage you need to get by. That calculator shows the hourly that you'd need to make if you were the sole income for a family of four. In my county, that's just over $35/hour. With 2 incomes, that brings it down to about $17/hour, and if one spouse is making $20/hour (about $40g's annually) then the other spouse could be at $15/hour ($30g's annually). I know that not too long ago, you would need an annual income of at least $100g's to be able to afford a mortgage payment in Los Angeles.

[SMR 368]

Good luck with that on a minimum wage job!

So, how much do you need to do all of that? That's the question that you are failing to answer.

The point that I am trying to make is that I have seen people live on $200/month. Most Americans in "poverty" have TV's, cellphones, and more shoes than they know what to do with.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Good luck with that on a minimum wage job!

For my county:

Living wage: $35.89

Poverty level: $9.83

Minimum wage: $8.00

I'd love to see SMR's math on how you could survive on minimum wage here.

[SMR 368]

For my county:

Living wage: $35.89

Poverty level: $9.83

Minimum wage: $8.00

I'd love to see SMR's math on how you could survive on minimum wage here.

Move.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Most Americans in "poverty" have TV's, cellphones, and more shoes than they know what to do with.

A cellphone today is a basic necessity for most people for one. Second, many Americans that are struggling to get buy, purchase things on credit with the hope that there will be a better tomorrow (a raise, etc). But in any case, you're generalizing those who live at or below poverty level.

Edited December 21, 2009 by Galt's gallstones

[rebeccajo 14]

Move.

Oh, you're losing the argument so you decide to get personal.

You've been clearly shown two or three definitions of "living wage". So stop being so beligerant.

Where have you seen people live on $200 a month? When?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Move.

Oh really? There's no cost to move? Interesting logic.

[rebeccajo 14]

No. My post was in response to the claim that it's obvious what a living wage is. I contend that it isn't. I also believe the term living wage is very misleading, since it includes many things not required to live. It's really a "keeping up with the Joneses wage." I don't think we need to make laws to pay a "keeping up with the Joneses" wage.

I looked at your cost of living data for the county that I live in and my current family size, and I find the estimate to be hugely inaccurate. We eat out quite a bit and don't spend near that amount on food. Housing and medical are also huge overestimates. The estimate for the area where I lived previously is also ridiculously high.

I didn't post the link to the calculator, so it isn't "mine".

But when I look up the figures for my area, like Steven I find them to be pretty accurate. Actually the income for family of three (which is what we are) is exactly on target to what my husband and I were earning before his job loss. We were living a modest but contented life on that income. No big screen TV's; one car; small house.

Edited December 21, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So, how much do you need to do all of that? That's the question that you are failing to answer.

The point that I am trying to make is that I have seen people live on $200/month. Most Americans in "poverty" have TV's, cellphones, and more shoes than they know what to do with.

I've seen people "live" on less than $200.00 per month. Not in any developed country, though. Certainly, there isn't a place in the US where you can find a place to live for less than $200.00/month.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Oh really? There's no cost to move? Interesting logic.

SMR, maybe you were just being smug, but if you believe the answer is to simply move, you're not thinking it through. Yes, moving to an area where there's higher employment, lower cost in housing seems to be a good option, but you're not thinking that for many Americans, they own a home that they are currently upside down on. Also, if you are working professional, your type of work may be concentrated in certain areas of the country. I happen to work in such an industry - where jobs are mainly in the LA area or SF area. Both areas require a high living wage and typically do pay those wages when the economy is robust, but under the current circumstances, jobs are scarce. If the trend continues, we'll see more foreclosures and that's not gonna help any economic recovery.

It really doesn't require too deep of a thought process to understand that the solution isn't as simple as moving.

[Ban Hammer 13,491]

Oh, you're losing the argument so you decide to get personal.

You've been clearly shown two or three definitions of "living wage". So stop being so beligerant.

Where have you seen people live on $200 a month? When?

yet moving remains a valid option. i'm quite certain steven could get a job here with his computer skills making at least $25 an hour.

Oh really? There's no cost to move? Interesting logic.

my company pays for the moving costs

[SMR 368]

Oh, you're losing the argument so you decide to get personal.

You've been clearly shown two or three definitions of "living wage". So stop being so beligerant.

Where have you seen people live on $200 a month? When?

I wasn't getting personal. I was suggesting how a person could live in the given area on minimum wage. Some neighborhoods are expensive.

All of the definitions that have been shown are, either inconsistent with reality ($458 for food for two people is a lot.) or completely non-specific. Yes, "some discretionary income," "savings for long-term purchases," and "comfortable living conditions" are all very non-specific.

$200 a month is present day. Location is Russia. Regardless of what you want to say about development level, etc. everything costs as much as it does here. The only exception is housing if you live in Orange County. If you live in my area, apartment prices are actually comparable. Admittedly, the people that live on $200 either live with family or own their apartments (no rent).

[Pinocchio Liberal 268]

WIC, subsidized housing, food coupons, free lunches, free medical, free daycare. He!! why work? Or move?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

WIC, subsidized housing, food coupons, free lunches, free medical, free daycare. He!! why work? Or move?

Sad Trombone sound bite  Sad sound bites

[rebeccajo 14]

I wasn't getting personal. I was suggesting how a person could live in the given area on minimum wage. Some neighborhoods are expensive.

All of the definitions that have been shown are, either inconsistent with reality ($458 for food for two people is a lot.) or completely non-specific. Yes, "some discretionary income," "savings for long-term purchases," and "comfortable living conditions" are all very non-specific.

$200 a month is present day. Location is Russia. Regardless of what you want to say about development level, etc. everything costs as much as it does here. The only exception is housing if you live in Orange County. If you live in my area, apartment prices are actually comparable. Admittedly, the people that live on $200 either live with family or own their apartments (no rent).

I think we are talking about living in the US.

You can't compare Russia to the US no matter how eloquently you wax on about comparable prices. I could say the same about the country my husband is from - the United Kingdom. Clothing, food, etcetera are roughly the same cost over there also. But culture, health care costs, housing costs, public transportation, and the like all play a role in cost of living. And every country is different in that regard.