co sponsorship is not ok

[NinJones 18]

Telling the CO "Will work when you get there" .. is a minus.

Lighten up girl, there's a lot here who can help you find options. Give it a little time, your case is far from worst compared to others who have told us of their stories.

[The_Sage1 2]

This is copied and pasted from the letter:

"While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge."

See? They don't allow or disallow co-sponsorship - it's a grey area.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

"While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge."

See? They don't allow or disallow co-sponsorship - it's a grey area.

Read the way it's worded. It says that a co-sponsor DOES NOT overcome the presumption that the alien will not become a public charge.

That means you will need something in addition to a co-sponsor!

A good example is "My USC (soon to be) Hubby is in his senior year of college with good job prospects upon graduation". If they don't see potential for the USC SO to increase their income in the current economy then the co-sponsor may as well not exist.

[john_and_marlene 162]

This is copied and pasted from the letter:

"While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge."

See? They don't allow or disallow co-sponsorship - it's a grey area.

Determining whether the beneficiary is likely to become a public charge is a grey area from the outset. It's a subjective judgement made by the CO. It is not tied to a specific income level or amount of assets (although I would imagine that the guidelines for the I-864 are roughly applied). It's a thumbs up or down from the CO based on their subjective assessment.

If you want the determination to be objective and must use a cosponsor, you took the wrong path. Marriage followed by a CR1 visa has the financial objectivity that you need. The I-864 has specific objective measures for approval and there is no lattitude for anyone to disallow a cosponsor as long as they meet the requirements.

If you are counting on a second I-134 signed by someone else, your risk of a denial is very great.

[john_and_marlene 162]

"While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge."

See? They don't allow or disallow co-sponsorship - it's a grey area.

Read the way it's worded. It says that a co-sponsor DOES NOT overcome the presumption that the alien will not become a public charge.

That means you will need something in addition to a co-sponsor!

A good example is "My USC (soon to be) Hubby is in his senior year of college with good job prospects upon graduation". If they don't see potential for the USC SO to increase their income in the current economy then the co-sponsor may as well not exist.

I would say that your situation is not a good example. You have filed for CR1. In this case, the consulate makes no financial determination. You are either financially qualified or not based on the I-864. Cosponsors are allowed in this case regardless of other circumstances. Signing the I-864(a) is legally binding on the sponsor and cosponsor and no other subjective evaluation is done.

[Deputy Purple 1,294]

A good example is "My USC (soon to be) Hubby is in his senior year of college with good job prospects upon graduation". If they don't see potential for the USC SO to increase their income in the current economy then the co-sponsor may as well not exist.

I would say that your situation is not a good example. You have filed for CR1. In this case, the consulate makes no financial determination. You are either financially qualified or not based on the I-864. Cosponsors are allowed in this case regardless of other circumstances. Signing the I-864(a) is legally binding on the sponsor and cosponsor and no other subjective evaluation is done.

You mis-understood my reply. I was posing an EXAMPLE not my real-life situation. I'm the USC and have exceeded the 125% requirement for most of my adult life. I was simply stating how the excerpt posted by Sage_1 doesn't support their instance that Co-sponsors are readily accepted by USEM in Manila but in fact is worded in a way that discourages it by warning that you will need additional conditions to overcome the income requirement and I then stated an example of a case where a co-sponsor is more likely to help as the income shortfall is perceived to be temporary not ongoing like the aforementioned McDonalds Deep Fryer Operator.

[rheanick 42]

i had my interview this morning and

it was a nightmare. my fiance is currently working in a food place

and asked his sister to co sponsor this k1 visa.

i thought everything will be alright until the

co asked about his income. i told the co that i will work when

i get there. and he told me that i wll become a public charge

because my fiance cannot support me. and he asked me also

if my fiance is supporting me or maybe he mean if my fiance is sending me money.

i asked him if its always a big deal that a guy send money to his girl. the co told me that it would be

a plus factor because that means that he can support me no matter

what. so i told him that if a guy can not send money to his girl

would that be a visa denial?. he never answered that question. he

just told me that they are just preventing those immigrant to come

to the us as public charge. i asked him also if his sisters income would be

enough. and he told me that my fiance was the one who petitioned me over

so my fiance should be the one who take responsibility for me. he told me

if i can go back to present a good income from my fiance maybe

they will think about it. so after the interview i called my fiance

and i was crying. though the co didnt tell me if im approve or denied but he asked me

to present his latest payslip and my fiance should know from the

start what is the poverty line for applying the visa. i feel so hopeless

when my fiance told me that he cant find a decent job as of now.

i really dont know what to do. should i just wait that something will

happen miraculously? is it really a plus factor that guy send money

to his girlfriend? is it fair that they did something like that? i felt

the co underestimate my fiance. and also i got mad to think that

if the guy is much older and the girl is too young they wouldnt care

how young the girl is as long as the guy can support her so they will approve

the petition and no question. and because me and my fiance are both young.

it is not really fair. i feel sad now. pls help me to cheer up. (

My fiance (now hubby) did not send me any money for my daily expenses. I had a good job in the Philippines. I'm here now in the US.

My 2 cents.

I'm not happy that you received a denial but the US is in the recession right now. Your reply to the CO that you would work here in the US after your arrival is not convincing enough. There are a lot of people who are looking for job here.

You mentioned that you and your fiance are both young. Tell him to study to get a better paying job. Then try to re-apply after few years.

[christeen 966]

According to the letter, it seems pretty straight forward that generally they DO NOT accept co-sponsors as a general rule.... HOWEVER, in the totality of the curcumstances they might be considered depending on the total circumstances...

Personally I can share that the consulates have recently been given direction to pay particular attention to the means of support for intending immigrants (k visas as well as CR/IR) visas... We had ours approved at NVC but the embassy refused to allow foreign investements so we had to move some $$$ arounds. During his interview at the Naples consulate, my husband was shown a correspondance from the Department of State to US Consulates stating something like "due to current financial events they are requesting that consulates be extra diligent in confirming petitioners still meet income requirements" and it had a list of things for the consulate to check like recent pay verifications, bank accounts, employment validity etc... and it had something about "calculating real value of assets such as house etc" but he did not have a chance to read it all and since that part did not pertain to our situation he did not retain that info... it was in more formal govt mumbo jumbo, but the CO pointed to it and paraphrased that they needed further information.

This document was in a big binder that the CO referred to and was dated from August. Not sure how many consulates are following this advice but better to be safe then sorry

I know we were IR1, however I believe that this general advice was given and being heeded by many consulates...

Visa Information

Date: April 24, 2009

This is in reply to your inquiry of April 24, 2009, regarding your visa concerns.

Petitioners in fiancé(e) (K1) nonimmigrant visa cases are generally expected to provide the

adequacy of their own financial resources to ensure that an alien, after admission into the

United States, will not become primarily dependent on the US Government for subsistence.

While our immigration law does not disallow joint sponsorships for K nonimmigrant visa

applicants, the mere submission of an I-134 Affidavit of Support from joint sponsors is not

sufficient to establish that the alien is not likely to become a public charge. Accordingly, we

make a thorough evaluation of other factors, such as the sponsor’s motives in submitting the

Form I-134, the sponsor’s relationship to the applicant or petitioner, the length of time the

sponsor and applicant have known each other, etc. An I-134 Affidavit of Support submitted by

a casual friend or distant relative who has little or no personal knowledge of the applicant has

limited value. Unlike the I-864 filed by joint sponsors in immigrant visa cases, the I-134 is not

legally binding and imposes no legal obligation on the joint sponsor to make good on his or

her promises. Please be assured that we look at the totality of circumstances in assessing the

credibility of joint sponsorships.

For information about financial sponsorship guidelines, you may visit the U.S. Citizenship and

Immigration Services (USCIS) website at http://www.uscis.gov.

Information regarding fiancé(e) and immigrant visa petitions may be found at our website at

http://travel.state.gov/visa/immigrants/ty...types_1315.html or

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3204.html.

Please direct future fiancé(e) and immigrant visa inquiries to this web link:

http://manila.usembassy.gov/wwwh3230.html.

We hope this information is helpful to you.

Immigrant Visa Correspondence Unit

Consular Section

U.S. Embassy, Manila

1201 Roxas Boulevard

Manila, Philippines

Telephone: (632) 301-2000

Fax: (632) 301-2037

[sachinky 465]

Because the I-134 is legally non-binding, it is upto the individual CO at the interview to accept co-sponsorship or not. This is where the totality of circumstances come in -- is the unemployment/dip in salary just temporary or is this the pattern, employment history, how educated is intending immigrant, how old are they, will they be able to find jobs, are they just starting out in life, i.e. recent college graduates, etc.

An I-864 is different because it is a legally binding document between the government and the petitioner.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I wrote my state senator about this issue of co-sponsorship. I just can't sit by and watch the consulates deceive people like this and do nothing. They say they accept co-sponsorship, and turn their backs at the interview and deny it.

When did the consulate in Manila ever say they accept cosponsors for K visas? Their official policy is that they do not. There are several members here on VJ to continue to insist that they do and continue to advise others that it is not a problem. For K visas, there is no specific income level required by statute. The CO has to decide the liklihood that the beneficiary will become a public charge. They have several tools to help them make that determination including tax returns, bank letters, employment letters, I-134. Any claim by a third party that they will help support the beneficiary is not legally binding based on an I-134 and the CO may or may not entertain the idea that others will actually provide support in the future. This sponsorship issue is often taken far too lightly--cosponsorship is more than a signature on a piece of paper. Do you truly believe that most cosponsors who sign an I-134 would actually provide money to support the beneficiary if asked? The I-134 is not legally binding and with increasing frequency more COs are either giving such a claim of support very little or no weight.

For those that believe they had a cosponsor accepted in Manila, they may have had a cosponsor I-134 and it may have even been given a little weight, but in the end, it is the determination by the CO regarding the liklihood that the beneficiary will actually not become a public charge and not any combined income levels on an I-134 that will make that determination.

If you feel deceived, it may be by those wrongly suggesting that the consulate in Manila accepts cosponsors. If you call the consulate directly they will tell you that they do not.

My fiance (now hubby) did not send me any money for my daily expenses. I had a good job in the Philippines. I'm here now in the US.

My 2 cents.

I'm not happy that you received a denial but the US is in the recession right now. Your reply to the CO that you would work here in the US after your arrival is not convincing enough. There are a lot of people who are looking for job here.

You mentioned that you and your fiance are both young. Tell him to study to get a better paying job. Then try to re-apply after few years.

Excellent advice.

[chinese_mutt 11]

i had my interview this morning and

it was a nightmare. my fiance is currently working in a food place

and asked his sister to co sponsor this k1 visa.

i thought everything will be alright until the

co asked about his income. i told the co that i will work when

i get there. and he told me that i wll become a public charge

because my fiance cannot support me. and he asked me also

if my fiance is supporting me or maybe he mean if my fiance is sending me money.

i asked him if its always a big deal that a guy send money to his girl. the co told me that it would be

a plus factor because that means that he can support me no matter

what. so i told him that if a guy can not send money to his girl

would that be a visa denial?. he never answered that question. he

just told me that they are just preventing those immigrant to come

to the us as public charge. i asked him also if his sisters income would be

enough. and he told me that my fiance was the one who petitioned me over

so my fiance should be the one who take responsibility for me. he told me

if i can go back to present a good income from my fiance maybe

they will think about it. so after the interview i called my fiance

and i was crying. though the co didnt tell me if im approve or denied but he asked me

to present his latest payslip and my fiance should know from the

start what is the poverty line for applying the visa. i feel so hopeless

when my fiance told me that he cant find a decent job as of now.

i really dont know what to do. should i just wait that something will

happen miraculously? is it really a plus factor that guy send money

to his girlfriend? is it fair that they did something like that? i felt

the co underestimate my fiance. and also i got mad to think that

if the guy is much older and the girl is too young they wouldnt care

how young the girl is as long as the guy can support her so they will approve

the petition and no question. and because me and my fiance are both young.

it is not really fair. i feel sad now. pls help me to cheer up. (

First, I'm sorry that this happened to you.

Second, not to be insensitive but you should've been at least prepared to answer that issue/question knowing that your fiance's finances is not in the best shape to petition you. Do you have other proof that you will not be a burden to their government? Like your fiance is doing college/special training? Your own work and education background (nurse and teachers are in demand here that might have helped). Your claim that you will find work here is absolutely bogus! I've been here 3 months, have good solid work experience, college degree, certificates of trainings, etc. but still cannot find any decent paying job here. It is not easy to find a job here. Some may get lucky and get hired but the truth is that most don't. You will also have to wait to AOS and get employment permit (might take months) before you can start looking for job. Take all that into account, it wasn't impossible that the CO decided that you might become public burden. Likewise, is your fiance receiving government aids and benefits such as food stamps? That can be against him too. The financial burden of bringing you here is big. Not only would you have to be clothe, fed and housed... there's also the chance that you will get sick, your fiance will get laid off, etc. etc. tough times here. No matter what they tell you in the Philippines, it is NOT EASY to get a job here much less a good paying job.

Third, you are both still young. Give yourself time to get financially straight. He should try to get a second job or find a better opportunity through schooling. Get yourself some training, I noticed that special skills here gets paid a lot (massage therapist, hair cutter, tailor). Likewise, medical field pays a lot more than any other industry. Lack of money makes too many marriages go sour, I'm not saying you will be one of them, but reality is when your belly goes hungry... tempers flare up! Finally, if he's not earning enough to send you money to support you a little every month that makes the CO more doubtful that he can support you once you get here. They know that $100 goes a long way in the Philippines. If he can't send you at least $100 then he more or less can't support you here.

I will mention only a little about your situation when you get here... Like have you talked to your family about lack of money to send back home? Factors that the CO knows very well. How will you send money back home if he can't spare you any while you are still here.

Of course, if you want to pursue immigration ASAP, nothing to do but him to come over and marry you and file CR1 instead.

Good luck!

[adiiann 163]

Before, I was wondering why K-visa didn't accept co-sponsorship and the affidavit of support document is different from CR1/IR1 visas.

Well, I've got the enlightenment that in the form I-134, the US government couldn't really take a hold on the petitioner just in case the petitioner couldn't support the K-visa holder, that's why it's important that petitioner could show that capability to support. Not like in form I-864, the government could get hold of the petitioner or the co-sponsor who signed it if they will not support the beneficiary.

[Dakine 26]

Looks like USEM is denying the use of cosponsors more lately. There's been "hearsay" USCIS will knock out the use of cosponsors completely in the near future.

To me they should stand fast on using cosponsors one way or the other and not let a CO play god affecting a couples lifes.

ANYONE planning on getting married should have sufficient income to take care of themselves financially. NOT just immigrants.

For the OP it looks like your best shot is to get married and do a CR-1 [if you man can afford to fly there or you are well off enough to get a tourist visa.] which aren't as strict on the use of cosponsors.

Still gets down to! No job, No Money, No Honey.

Just the way it is.