VISA JOURNEY GUIDELINES OUT OF DATE? WHAT TO DO?

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

@shani. This may have been said already so I apologize if so. Here are my replies to your comments:

1. The AOS guide is written for K1 and K3 holders and as such the requirements are for those applicants. The Guide I am referring to is " Adjustment of Status Guide (K1 & K3 Visa Holders) ".

2. The new G-325a page had this topic raised previously. The topic you can find here: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=208368. The end result was that guides would be updated to say, "G-325A filled out, signed and dated. If you are using a newer version of the G-325A it may only contain one page for "Biographic Information". Be sure to make four copies of the completed "Biographic Information" page to submit with the package." The AOS guide currently uses this language.

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3. A certified copy of the marriage certificate is technically not required (however a regular copy is). That said, many other forms DO require a certified form, and if there is any "hiccup" requiring an RFE or even at the interview, an original or certified copy of the certificate may be requested Because the time it requires to get a certified copy may be lengthy and delay a case more during the RFE, we recommend that this simple precaution be taken to send in the certified copy up front. The Visa FAQ's even recommend when you get married to be sure to get it then as it is much easier. This recommendation is based on the experiences of many members and while slightly above the requirement of a plain copy, seems prudent based on previous member experiences. Potentially a note can be added stating that a plain copy is "ok" however runs the risk of an extended RFE if one is generated requiring the certified copy.

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

I reviewed the Info Page for the new G-325A form. It states,

"Number of Pages :

Instructions 1; Form 1."

I am ok with updating recommendations to include "one page" and no copies if we can agree. Thoughts?

[FortLaudy 10]

Thanks Captain Ewok! and thanks for a great site!!!

There are a few differences when filing AOS from K1 than from Student, Work, and tourist visas... So when people in the "student, work and tourist" ask questions, VJ'ers refer them to that checklist which does not 100% apply to them, I guess because there is not seperate checklist for other than K1 yet...

Some differences are for example on the I-485 - marriage certificate requested for K1 applicant, for the rest it's not necessary... can I write a checklist/guide on a seperate post for AOS from F1 and have it pinned under the AOS from Work, Student and Tourist visa section please?

[Jasman0717 9]

This site is called "Visa Journey - Your family immigration community" and is primarily based on immigration based on a 'family' relationship....so the guides do focus on that aspect. However, one should always read and follow the instructions provided by USCIS that accompany each form. The VJ guides should be used only as a supplement to the USCIS instructions. That said, the site administration should be made aware if there is 'outdated' information contained within the guides.

Yup, so it's really annoying when VJ'ers keep referring new members to the guides on here and not the official instructions... and then the same questions keep coming up about the marriage certificate for I-485 and certified copies and G-325A etc. and the ensuing arguments... so hopefully they'll change it soon and this reference to incorrect checklists and spreading of misinformation will stop.

I thought the guides were very helpful and really appreciated being referred there. There is a link to the USCIS web site in the guide so they can always go there for more information.

You can please some of the people all the time, you can please all the people some of the time but you can't please all the people all the time

[Otto 83]

I am ok with updating recommendations to include "one page" and no copies if we can agree. Thoughts?

I agree - I thought we got clarification from somewhere within the USCIS food chain on the new G-325A. If its now a single page, the guide(s) (all references to this form and number of pages) should be updated.

[FortLaudy 10]

I am ok with updating recommendations to include "one page" and no copies if we can agree. Thoughts?

I agree - I thought we got clarification from somewhere within the USCIS food chain on the new G-325A. If its now a single page, the guide(s) (all references to this form and number of pages) should be updated.

I concur with Otto und Karin, currently the VJ guide for I-130 & I-485 states:

"13. G-325A filled out by the foreign spouse signed and dated. If you are using a newer version of the G-325A it may only contain one page for "Biographic Information". Be sure to make four copies of the completed "Biographic Information" page to submit with the package."

This is still confusing: why would you use a "newer version of the G-325A" ? There should only be one version, the latest and that's the ONLY one people should be using as the older ones will be now outdated and not accepted, right? This is the only one that should now be used: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/g-325a.pdf

"four copies"? why? See instructions below, it clearly states: 1 copy for Petitioner and 1 copy of Beneficiary for I-130 & 1 copy for I-485 for applicant.

Instructions for I-485:http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf page 4, point 13.

13. Form G-325A, Biographic Information Sheet

You must submit a completed Form G-325A if you are between 14 and 79 years of age.

Instructions for I-130: http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/afmid/dat/I_130.PDF

Page 2

7. What Documents Do You Need to Prove a Family Relationship?

A. A husband or wife, submit the following documentation:

4) A completed and signed Form G-325A, Biographic

Information, for you and a Form G-325A for your

husband or wife.

[Nik+Heather 121]

Regarding the Guidelines (overall):

It's always good to keep these as up-to-date as possible. BUT - immigration paperwork isn't and shouldn't be a spoon-feeding process. Readers really shouldn't get the impression they can merely glide down through a checklist and sail their way through approval. More than once I've read posts from folks who claim they 'made mistakes' with their cases because the Guide didn't say 'this or that'.

I would like to see an improved big, bold disclaimer at the top of each guide that IN ADDITION to using the Guide, that the reader take time to read through the appropriate forums for updated policies, procedures, or just general 'quirks' that might apply to their case.

It cannot be overemphasized enough that EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT. Immigration isn't a cookie-cutter, drive-thru process. We need to do more than help people with their cases - we need to encourage accountability.

While I agree that some people don't seem to take enough ownership of their cases, I'm not sure what you mean by this comment in the context of this thread regarding the improvement/updating of the guides. With the goal of this site being to aid people through the process, and the guides being the sum of our anecdotal experiences about what worked, why wouldn't we want them to be as complete, current and clear as possible? Why is gathering all the current information in one place on one page a bad ('spoon feeding') thing?? The idea that we shouldn't tell them something so that they have to go and look it up themselves (to avoid spoon feeding) makes the site LESS HELPFUL.

I reviewed the Info Page for the new G-325A form. It states,

"Number of Pages :

Instructions 1; Form 1."

I am ok with updating recommendations to include "one page" and no copies if we can agree. Thoughts?

I think the guides should remain as conservative as possible. There are many many issues with the latest G325A form, why couldn't the fact that it doesn't print 4 copies not be yet another error?

I am ok with updating recommendations to include "one page" and no copies if we can agree. Thoughts?

I agree - I thought we got clarification from somewhere within the USCIS food chain on the new G-325A. If its now a single page, the guide(s) (all references to this form and number of pages) should be updated.

I concur with Otto und Karin, currently the VJ guide for I-130 & I-485 states:

"13. G-325A filled out by the foreign spouse signed and dated. If you are using a newer version of the G-325A it may only contain one page for "Biographic Information". Be sure to make four copies of the completed "Biographic Information" page to submit with the package."

This is still confusing: why would you use a "newer version of the G-325A" ? There should only be one version, the latest and that's the ONLY one people should be using as the older ones will be now outdated and not accepted, right? This is the only one that should now be used: http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/g-325a.pdf

"four copies"? why? See instructions below, it clearly states: 1 copy for Petitioner and 1 copy of Beneficiary for I-130 & 1 copy for I-485 for applicant.

Instructions for I-485:http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/I-485instr.pdf page 4, point 13.

13. Form G-325A, Biographic Information Sheet

You must submit a completed Form G-325A if you are between 14 and 79 years of age.

Instructions for I-130: http://www.uscis.gov/propub/DocView/afmid/dat/I_130.PDF

Page 2

7. What Documents Do You Need to Prove a Family Relationship?

A. A husband or wife, submit the following documentation:

4) A completed and signed Form G-325A, Biographic

Information, for you and a Form G-325A for your

husband or wife.

You haven't filled in your timeline yet, and it looks like you joined Visa Journey after the big debate was already over on the G325A. The document used to be 4 copies. Additionally, the previous version (4 copies) is still accepted as a valid form. This, combined with the other frustrating errors on the new G325A, lead me to suspect that the number of copies error could be just another oversight.

Just because none of the instructions say not to include 4 copies doesn't mean anything. Those instructions were written when there was a 4 (identical) page G325A.

I believe your heart is in the right place, but until there is more anecdotal evidence that 1 page is sufficient, or something more definitive is published from USCIS, making the guides less conservative is the wrong direction to go.

[rebeccajo 14]

Regarding the Guidelines (overall):

It's always good to keep these as up-to-date as possible. BUT - immigration paperwork isn't and shouldn't be a spoon-feeding process. Readers really shouldn't get the impression they can merely glide down through a checklist and sail their way through approval. More than once I've read posts from folks who claim they 'made mistakes' with their cases because the Guide didn't say 'this or that'.

I would like to see an improved big, bold disclaimer at the top of each guide that IN ADDITION to using the Guide, that the reader take time to read through the appropriate forums for updated policies, procedures, or just general 'quirks' that might apply to their case.

It cannot be overemphasized enough that EVERY CASE IS DIFFERENT. Immigration isn't a cookie-cutter, drive-thru process. We need to do more than help people with their cases - we need to encourage accountability.

While I agree that some people don't seem to take enough ownership of their cases, I'm not sure what you mean by this comment in the context of this thread regarding the improvement/updating of the guides. With the goal of this site being to aid people through the process, and the guides being the sum of our anecdotal experiences about what worked, why wouldn't we want them to be as complete, current and clear as possible? Why is gathering all the current information in one place on one page a bad ('spoon feeding') thing?? The idea that we shouldn't tell them something so that they have to go and look it up themselves (to avoid spoon feeding) makes the site LESS HELPFUL.

I explained what I meant.

Because every case is different.

You are either over-reading or looking to promote controversy if you interpreted my post to mean we shouldn't "tell them something".

Edited December 19, 2009 by rebeccajo

[Captain Ewok 1,900]

All pages, guides and example forms revised for the new form. One page is now all that is recommended (no copies needed as was recommended before).